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[ENTP] ENTPs - full of hidden insecurities?

sculpting

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I really can't answer that for you. The status thing baffles me. But I guess that could be Fe overload, I don't know...



Yes, but taking pride in something doesn't automatically equate to insecurity and this is where I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at. If I offend your Fi sense of value, it doesn't mean that your are insecure about it.

So they are snarky with each other... it just seems like these 2 people are competitive with each other, which has nothing to do with type or even pride, but it manifests itself in the functions of our type.

(and please, stop apologizing - we love you, puppy! er, sorry: monster...)

Maybe we mistake pride/passion for insecurity? Perhaps the wrong label is being used. To offend my Fi you would have to hurt someone else, and then I would feel anger at you, not insecurity. So we see the reaction of offended and then assume they were insecure in the first place..?

Are entps more prone to being competitive? How do I reorient them to reduce these entanglements?

(I have Fi , I am gentically programmed to apologize. yap yap!)
 

simulatedworld

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Yeah, likewise.

I've found being an open book pretty worthwhile, though. There's not a whole lot that's "hidden" about me anymore. I freely talk about my experiences with anxiety and depression, and I don't tend to attach my ego to things that occur around me. It's taken a while to get there.

Anymore, my main vice is anger.. pent-up anger, specifically, when my trust is violated. I have some need for security and stability in my life, probably more than I realize, and a breach of trust indicates an erosion of that.

When someone betrays my trust in a relatively big way, they don't go in the category of "oh well i just can't share that sort of information with them or just avoid them," they go on my shit list. I will brood over the problem. As good at social manipulation as I can be, this is really the only time it comes out. While they have placed me in some "neutral" or even "positive" category themselves and treat me as such, I'll "inadvertently" hit them where it hurts in our conversations, casually dropping hints that strike their insecurities. Onlookers would have no idea what's transpiring, and, really, neither will that other person. All that person knows is that they feel worse than they did.

Think Harry in Spider-Man 3. Except probably less of a total bastard, but more cunning about it.

Basically, I have trouble placing my trust in the Powers that Be to ensure that whatever justice is truly warranted is actually carried out.. rather than effectively pursuing vigilantism as I do.

This has only occurred with two people, and it's something that I want to let go of; I just hope that I have the strength to never do it again.

Sure you didn't have it right with ENfp?
 

sculpting

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I've often wondered if ENTPs fear being kicked off the top. My eNTP was absolutely the alpha in the group. He wasn't domineering but he *was* the de facto leader or at least second in command at any given time. He was really smart and capable, and not much got at him, but I could see flickers of insecurity or unsureness, like his private nightmare would be to wake up and find out he'd been deluded about his intelligence and worth all along. I could tell when I had him on the ropes. He went from being cocky and chill, to this look that I can only describe as "please don't hurt me". It was a very drastic duality. And the things that made him vulnerable were sometimes surprising. Like me messing with/uprooting his shirt. He'd turn bright red, laugh a bit, and bashfully tell me to stop it.

Another long-term ENTP friend, he's what I would determine as a tornado with feelings. He tries to stay just two steps ahead of everything, including his own emotions.


this I have seen. It makes me to hold thier hands and tell them it will be alright. But it happens so quickly, and then the glances pass. But you see it in the microexpressions
 

Lauren Ashley

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I give the impression of having few insecurities if any at all, I really, really, really don't like showing weakness, it feels like failure to me for someone to see them but I can assure you while there are areas where I have excess confidence in my abilities, there are other areas where I have plenty of insecurities, mostly in areas to do with personal relationships and expressing emotions.

This is what I hear from my ENTP friends as well. That bugger Fe, always ruining Ne-Ti fun.
 

simulatedworld

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I think the difference, for me, is that I can know something and not dwell on it. Like I may just know that I am not so good at x,y and z, but I do those things anyway without giving it another thought. Insecurity (or awareness of limitations) doesn't paralyze me the way it does with other types. So I don't consider myself to be insecure in the traditional sense. But perhaps I am confused about what you mean by insecure??

For instance, claims such as "ENTPs very rarely get upset about anything" are not really true. Some people, especially non-NTs, have an exaggerated idea of how "immune to taking things personally" we are. We're not, and since NTs tend to pride themselves on behaving logically, we don't like to accept that there are times when we're behaving illogically without realizing it--it's unsettling. So we don't like to acknowledge weaknesses because it runs counter to the image of confidence we usually project.

By the way, on the question of Fe and manipulation--Fe manipulates people directly by playing off their emotions. There are different kinds of manipulation--Ne can do it by experimenting to see how far it can push the envelope before anyone stops it, and when ESTPs do it it's most likely Se instinctually taking advantage of any physical world opportunity that it sees.

Ne and Se actually have a lot of common threads in terms of naturally directing things toward their advantage, especially in the company of Ti...they just apply it in totally different areas.
 

Kasper

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I've often wondered if ENTPs fear being kicked off the top. My eNTP was absolutely the alpha in the group. He wasn't domineering but he *was* the de facto leader or at least second in command at any given time. He was really smart and capable, and not much got at him, but I could see flickers of insecurity or unsureness, like his private nightmare would be to wake up and find out he'd been deluded about his intelligence and worth all along. I could tell when I had him on the ropes. He went from being cocky and chill, to this look that I can only describe as "please don't hurt me". It was a very drastic duality. And the things that made him vulnerable were sometimes surprising. Like me messing with/uprooting his shirt. He'd turn bright red, laugh a bit, and bashfully tell me to stop it.

Another long-term ENTP friend, he's what I would determine as a tornado with feelings. He tries to stay just two steps ahead of everything, including his own emotions.

For me it's not about being kicked off the top, I don't think I'm at the top to begin with, it's all about acceptance for me, not to be mistaken with not about being liked, I could care less about that, it's a fear of not being accepted for who I truly am, therefore I don't show that very often, not to say that I'm not me, just that I'm so used to showing a facade that it's become me. The last part rings true, the staying two steps ahead of everything including my emotions.

Disclaimer: have a slight case of the drunkness.
 

Lauren Ashley

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For instance, claims such as "ENTPs very rarely get upset about anything" are not really true. Some people, especially non-NTs, have an exaggerated idea of how "immune to taking things personally" we are.

Oh, I know they can take things personally. Like every other human being.
 

Domino

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this I have seen. It makes me to hold thier hands and tell them it will be alright. But it happens so quickly, and then the glances pass. But you see it in the microexpressions

Indeed. And sometimes it happened when he'd done something wrong and I was furious with him, so I would instantly go from wanting to fuss him out to hugging and patting him. Or at least wanting to hug and pat him. That can be a very alien sensation for me. It's the paradoxical nature of ENTPs to be riding high and confident while being amazingly prone at the same time.

I recall one particular scene... he was having a bad day and was really crabby and agitated. He was grousing about everything (normally he was very chill and laid back), and at one point, out of the blue, I turned to him and say very quietly, "X, it's going to be all right." That brought him up short, and for a minute I thought he might dissolve, he couldn't blink or look away, but a moment after I said it, he actually got very calm. I think the reassurance was important. Like he could be in a bad mood, and it wasn't the end of the world.
 

Domino

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For me it's not about being kicked off the top, I don't think I'm at the top to begin with, it's all about acceptance for me, not to be mistaken with not about being liked, I could care less about that, it's a fear of not being accepted for who I truly am, therefore I don't show that very often, not to say that I'm not me, just that I'm so used to showing a facade that it's become me. The last part rings true, the staying two steps ahead of everything including my emotions.

Disclaimer: have a slight case of the drunkness.

Very interesting, Trin. Do you think that gender plays a difference?
 

Kasper

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Very interesting, Trin. Do you think that gender plays a difference?

*shrug* iunno. I've always seen a pretty big difference between the large majority of male ENTPs and female ENTPs though. There are only a few males that I can begin to relate to (and some of them think they're INTPs). Still, could just be me.
 

Domino

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I've never had to pleasure of meeting a female ENTP. :(
 

Gioolia

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Although I can often be seen as a highly confident person, the truth is that while people around me are prone to consider their insecurities as apocalittic tragedies that will never be resolved, I just tend to acknowledge my limits.
If you question my abilities I don't hide my limits, that would be unnatural.

The only thing that can hurt me really bad is if you question my ideas.
That is the one thing that will actually drive me insane. I start questioning my children (read: ideas) and when I do that I become anxious, and being anxious makes me irritated, being irritated makes me crazy and when I'm like that I'd better be alone.

But then again that is true only if people who question my ideas have an IQ higher than mine, otherwise their opinion can go down the drain.
 

Udog

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I don't think moral fiber can be derived from any of the functions. Either you have it or don't. Ti and Fe allows me to evaluate them and reach conclusions based on them...but, it doesn't birth my moral fiber. That is what leads to individual differences amongst ENTPs, what kind of a person you are, at the core, a good guy, a villian, is completely outside the sphere of functions.

I agree with the evil ENTP 100%. Character and integrity are type independent behaviors. However, you can sometimes have success in explaining the thought process that goes into justifying those values via the functions.
 

Domino

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*shock and disbelief*

Surely you jest. No one should be deprived in this manner.

I know! :( Sad isn't it? All I got is a herd of the boys (which I'm so not complaining about - lol). No girlios. I'm very deprived.
 

sculpting

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But then again that is true only if people who question my ideas have an IQ higher than mine, otherwise their opinion can go down the drain.


But what if you have two entps who then get stuck in a struggle of who has the higher IQ-ie right to question each other's ideas?

I know! :( Sad isn't it? All I got is a herd of the boys (which I'm so not complaining about - lol). No girlios. I'm very deprived.

The girls are more-well-balanced?? than the boys from what I have seen IRL. Maybe like ENFP boys seem to be a little more balanced??

Perhaps gender forces you to develop those tertiary functions a little earlier?
I utterlky adore entp girls and find them awesome to work with. The boys are where you see the funny glance, the "little worries". They seem to be most stressed and prone to misbehaving. (Again, most are normal, but a few are deviant)

I understand also what you said earlier-about telling them it will be okay. My worst entp seems to behave much better if I am in meetings with him. Not sure why, but he is much less defensive and more secure, knowing he has some level of support.
 

jenocyde

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Are entps more prone to being competitive? How do I reorient them to reduce these entanglements?

I can be pretty damn competitive with others when I care about what I am doing, but for the most part, I just compete against myself.

You can't reorient them and I don't see why you would even want to.

Although I can often be seen as a highly confident person, the truth is that while people around me are prone to consider their insecurities as apocalittic tragedies that will never be resolved, I just tend to acknowledge my limits.
If you question my abilities I don't hide my limits, that would be unnatural.

+1

But what if you have two entps who then get stuck in a struggle of who has the higher IQ-ie right to question each other's ideas?

Let them duke it out - not your problem. And trust me, you don't want to get sucked into it, either.

The girls are more-well-balanced?? than the boys from what I have seen IRL. Maybe like ENFP boys seem to be a little more balanced??

Perhaps gender forces you to develop those tertiary functions a little earlier?
I utterlky adore entp girls and find them awesome to work with. The boys are where you see the funny glance, the "little worries". They seem to be most stressed and prone to misbehaving. (Again, most are normal, but a few are deviant)

Can't speak for all the chickees but I definitely was forced into submission and was not encouraged to be myself. I learned quite early on how to be polite and play nice. I also learned when I needed to use that tactic. But I honestly didn't develop my Fe until my late 20s. Up until then, it was all a façade.

I understand also what you said earlier-about telling them it will be okay. My worst entp seems to behave much better if I am in meetings with him. Not sure why, but he is much less defensive and more secure, knowing he has some level of support.

Hmmm, maybe he's just trying to sleep with you? I don't "tone it down" for anyone unless I want something from them or I am trying to get them into my inner circle, so to speak... sad but true.
 

Domino

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I don't think ENTPs sleep.

EDIT: Jenocyde definitely doesn't.
 

thisGuy

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I don't think ENTPs sleep.

EDIT: Jenocyde definitely doesn't.


all honesty...sleep is definitely not on the top of the list when there are things to be looked at and people to screw

i been trying to get to bed by 11 for the past month. haven't been hitting the sack till at least 1 for the past 4 months.

makes me wonder if have a tendency for self destruction
 
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