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[ENTP] ENTPs - full of hidden insecurities?

simulatedworld

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I think ENTPs tend to show the greatest range of confidence development over time.

Ultimately most will figure themselves out and grow into extraordinarily confident adults, but it can take time. I've sorted through a lot of insecurities myself, and still working on it.

Just...the differences in the way we approach problem-solving in general have so many implications and especially not really understanding Fe at a young age, it's pretty insane at times. I remember consciously wondering to myself all the time why anyone bothered with any of the behaviors I now label to myself as xxFJ. It was just, wow, that shouldn't theoretically make any sense, see? You must be STUPID!

Probably depends on a million factors, but...teenage ENTP males, especially, are notoriously insecure, as I myself can attest to.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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hahaha, "hidden" insecurities? Please, INTPs prolly know ENTPs better than they know themselves. The transparency is funny sometimes.
 

simulatedworld

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^ That's true.

I've always said ENTPs just don't like admitting to having insecurities.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
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^ That's true.

I've always said ENTPs just don't like admitting to having insecurities.

I think the difference, for me, is that I can know something and not dwell on it. Like I may just know that I am not so good at x,y and z, but I do those things anyway without giving it another thought. Insecurity (or awareness of limitations) doesn't paralyze me the way it does with other types. So I don't consider myself to be insecure in the traditional sense. But perhaps I am confused about what you mean by insecure??
 
G

garbage

Guest
I think ENTPs tend to show the greatest range of confidence development over time.

Ultimately most will figure themselves out and grow into extraordinarily confident adults, but it can take time. I've sorted through a lot of insecurities myself, and still working on it.

Yeah, likewise.

I've found being an open book pretty worthwhile, though. There's not a whole lot that's "hidden" about me anymore. I freely talk about my experiences with anxiety and depression, and I don't tend to attach my ego to things that occur around me. It's taken a while to get there.

Anymore, my main vice is anger.. pent-up anger, specifically, when my trust is violated. I have some need for security and stability in my life, probably more than I realize, and a breach of trust indicates an erosion of that.

When someone betrays my trust in a relatively big way, they don't go in the category of "oh well i just can't share that sort of information with them or just avoid them," they go on my shit list. I will brood over the problem. As good at social manipulation as I can be, this is really the only time it comes out. While they have placed me in some "neutral" or even "positive" category themselves and treat me as such, I'll "inadvertently" hit them where it hurts in our conversations, casually dropping hints that strike their insecurities. Onlookers would have no idea what's transpiring, and, really, neither will that other person. All that person knows is that they feel worse than they did.

Think Harry in Spider-Man 3. Except probably less of a total bastard, but more cunning about it.

Basically, I have trouble placing my trust in the Powers that Be to ensure that whatever justice is truly warranted is actually carried out.. rather than effectively pursuing vigilantism as I do.

This has only occurred with two people, and it's something that I want to let go of; I just hope that I have the strength to never do it again.
 

sculpting

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I think ENTPs tend to show the greatest range of confidence development over time.

Ultimately most will figure themselves out and grow into extraordinarily confident adults, but it can take time. I've sorted through a lot of insecurities myself, and still working on it.

Just...the differences in the way we approach problem-solving in general have so many implications and especially not really understanding Fe at a young age, it's pretty insane at times. I remember consciously wondering to myself all the time why anyone bothered with any of the behaviors I now label to myself as xxFJ. It was just, wow, that shouldn't theoretically make any sense, see? You must be STUPID!

Probably depends on a million factors, but...teenage ENTP males, especially, are notoriously insecure, as I myself can attest to.

You know the young ones can be little punks, funny, rude and get into all types of mischief but are clever and witty and lots of fun. Many of the folks I went to grad school with remind me of all the younger entps here. Normal types of expected insecurities you'd see in young adults. I did like them very much though.

But I think it may be overdevelopment of Fe on some level that triggers what me and the OP are seeing. It seems to be some sort of need for respect from others around them. It sounds like they use the skills jeno spoke of but use them for evil. They also have some materialistic tendancies but oddly expressed in a few select places.
 

Kasper

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I don't relate to the OP at all but...

I give the impression of having few insecurities if any at all, I really, really, really don't like showing weakness, it feels like failure to me for someone to see them but I can assure you while there are areas where I have excess confidence in my abilities, there are other areas where I have plenty of insecurities, mostly in areas to do with personal relationships and expressing emotions.
 

Asterion

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...teenage ENTP males, especially, are notoriously insecure, as I myself can attest to.

Awww shit! I'm gonna have to hide my age now! :steam:

I don't know how insecure I really am... hmmm... Ok, well, I do certainly struggle with the unloved thing, but it's so easy to override it, and kill that insecurity by just saying that everybody loves you, even if it's not quite logical, or there's some slight evidence against it. Looking towards the future is another example, if you feel incompetent, and then reassure yourself that you'll have the skills you want in a couple weeks time, you won't feel insecure. It just gives you the confidence to move on and become great, instead of sitting there and crying over it all :tongue10:
 

sculpting

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how about looking at it from a different angle...

how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?
 

Qre:us

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Please, INTPs prolly know ENTPs better than they know themselves. The transparency is funny sometimes.

How? Esp. with Fe in the inferior position?

how about looking at it from a different angle...
how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?


Truthfully, it would depend on how the criticism was laid out.

If I feel that the criticism is an example of their genuine interest in my ideas, AND has logical sound justification (it's all about the justification for me), then, I'd actually keep up the dialogue to allow them to poke the holes, so that next round, I can make my awsome into awsomest! :D

If I feel that the person is criticizing to take me down a peg or two, or, some other personal investment beyond just the idea in isolation, and more about *me* at the other end....I'm gonna come back at them, HARD.

I also like having the positives of what aspects WORKS highlighted concurrently with the criticisms.....it allows me to be more receptive to take the criticisms as what it truly is, evaluation of ideas.

Rather than evaluation of myself surpassing my ideas. I don't like when people don't separate me from my ideas and/or put words in my mouth, assume, a thought-process of mine from the final product/idea.
 

jenocyde

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But I think it may be overdevelopment of Fe on some level that triggers what me and the OP are seeing.

I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.
 

jenocyde

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how about looking at it from a different angle...

how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?

It depends on the criticism, of course. If it's from someone that I respect and is presented in a way that actually shows me they have thought it through, I am more than happy to receive it. I believe that the more, the merrier when it comes to ideas.

If it's from someone that I feel is of dubious intelligence, I will dismiss it - but I'll probably still ponder it later.

If it seems snarky, of course I will react in kind. Anything I present to the world is a source of pride and I get my feelings hurt like anyone else.
 
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garbage

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I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.

This.

That and Ne can be good at justifying pretty much anything. Without a strong moral fiber--or a judgment function, if you will--the results can be devastating.
 

sculpting

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I know that Fe is associated with manipulation, but it really feels like NeTi. The same way that we notice inconsistencies and see possibilities... it doesn't turn off just because we deal with humans. I think that if someone doesn't have a strong ethical background or any moral fiber, an ENTP can be monstrous. I think the same way about the "con artist" darkside of ESTPs. The Fe is just the sugar that makes it go down.


actually your right, that makes more sense. Maybe the choice is NeTi but Fe is tool they employ to accomplish. However I think tertiary Fe may differ a lot in how its facets (?) develop for different enxps?? So they have pieces of it that allow them to manipulate and make them socially skilled but they lack the pieces that ground them in what is the right thing to do for the better of others-like a disjointed, bumpily developed Fe.

One other thought. I totally lack Fe so I do not care at all how I appear to society or what others expect me to be like. These entps do care though-thus the stories of nice cars, first class plane tickets,or happy families that are made up, or elaborate things they did in the past. Perhaps again a bumpily developed Fe, that makes them aware of what others think, but doesnt ground them in what is best for others? all questions though...
 

Kasper

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how well do you guys take criticism? what if the critisicm is directed towards one of your ideas/inventions/creations that you are particularly proud of and that makes you feel accomplished? What would you do to defend that accomplishment?

Criticism is totally fine by me, I don't get upset or question myself if people question me, my abilities or my projects, if the criticism is fair I take it on board, if it isn't it's dismissed. It's never taken personally.
 

sculpting

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If it seems snarky, of course I will react in kind. Anything I present to the world is a source of pride and I get my feelings hurt like anyone else.


THIS. THIS. THIS!!!

Okay so this is when the fun really starts. If you take two of these guys, pyut them in a room together, they criticize each other in a very snarky fashion. Then each gets more and more offended and more defensive and snarky. Along with dismissive as well. It becomes an ENTP war zone. Thier ideas I think are what they take pride in.

Sorry I hope I am not digging, and i apologize if I am. I am trying to sort this out and devlop tactics to deal with them as they are starting to cripple projects with thier behaviors.

This.

That and Ne can be good at justifying pretty much anything. Without a strong moral fiber--or a judgment function, if you will--the results can be devastating.


ooohhh, rationalization and justification. Living in a sea of Ne is beautiful. Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?
 

Qre:us

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Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?

I don't think moral fiber can be derived from any of the functions. Either you have it or don't. Ti and Fe allows me to evaluate them and reach conclusions based on them...but, it doesn't birth my moral fiber. That is what leads to individual differences amongst ENTPs, what kind of a person you are, at the core, a good guy, a villian, is completely outside the sphere of functions.
 

jenocyde

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One other thought. I totally lack Fe so I do not care at all how I appear to society or what others expect me to be like. These entps do care though-thus the stories of nice cars, first class plane tickets,or happy families that are made up, or elaborate things they did in the past. Perhaps again a bumpily developed Fe, that makes them aware of what others think, but doesnt ground them in what is best for others? all questions though...

I really can't answer that for you. The status thing baffles me. But I guess that could be Fe overload, I don't know...

Okay so this is when the fun really starts. If you take two of these guys, pyut them in a room together, they criticize each other in a very snarky fashion. Then each gets more and more offended and more defensive and snarky. Along with dismissive as well. It becomes an ENTP war zone. Thier ideas I think are what they take pride in.

Sorry I hope I am not digging, and i apologize if I am. I am trying to sort this out and devlop tactics to deal with them as they are starting to cripple projects with thier behaviors.

Yes, but taking pride in something doesn't automatically equate to insecurity and this is where I'm having a hard time understanding what you are getting at. If I offend your Fi sense of value, it doesn't mean that your are insecure about it.

So they are snarky with each other... it just seems like these 2 people are competitive with each other, which has nothing to do with type or even pride, but it manifests itself in the functions of our type.

(and please, stop apologizing - we love you, puppy! er, sorry: monster...)
 
G

garbage

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ooohhh, rationalization and justification. Living in a sea of Ne is beautiful. Is moral fiber derived from Ti or Fe for an entp?

If it were to fit in with a function, I think Fi would be closest to "the function of moral fiber," actually, regardless of its status within the ENTP. But it can be overpowered just as easily.
 

Domino

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I've often wondered if ENTPs fear being kicked off the top. My eNTP was absolutely the alpha in the group. He wasn't domineering but he *was* the de facto leader or at least second in command at any given time. He was really smart and capable, and not much got at him, but I could see flickers of insecurity or unsureness, like his private nightmare would be to wake up and find out he'd been deluded about his intelligence and worth all along. I could tell when I had him on the ropes. He went from being cocky and chill, to this look that I can only describe as "please don't hurt me". It was a very drastic duality. And the things that made him vulnerable were sometimes surprising. Like me messing with/uprooting his shirt. He'd turn bright red, laugh a bit, and bashfully tell me to stop it.

Another long-term ENTP friend, he's what I would determine as a tornado with feelings. He tries to stay just two steps ahead of everything, including his own emotions.
 
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