[MBTI General] INTP and Sociopath

[WorldSocionics]

Interestingly, I have not actually come across an ESTP psychopath, although I have found the odd ISTP. Psychopaths are actually found to have above average intelligence in most cases, which is a feeder for their more narcissistic traits such as a 'grandiose sense of self worth' or being 'cunning/manipulative'. Cleckley describes the psychopath as 'intelligent'. You forget, Katharsis that most psychopaths are not in prison but are very successful in society, with their aggressive narcissism traits outweighing the effects of social deviancy and granting them the ruthlessness to flourish in professions like the business world. Where the psychopathic and sociopathic disorders overlap i.e. the reckless criminals who dangerously act on impulse without a thought to the consequences (high social deviancy, not as high aggressive narcissism), I would imagine a psychopathological ESTP to lie. Those smart enough to control their impulses for a greater goal 'Ne instead of Se', would be ENTP.

Although fictional and quite caricatured, two good examples of the two would be The Comedian ESTP and The Joker ENTP. One often resorts to mindless violence while the other plots and schemes before unleashing his destruction. Both are impulsive, but one acts in the moment while the other with a mind to the future and consequences. Interestingly, the Joker takes his evil to the extreme, strongly representing the psychopathic traits while the Comedian actually shows remorse shortly before his demise (like many Se users, he acts without considering how he will feel later). One shows psychopathic behaviour while the other sociopathic (AsPD).

 

[sleepy]

An INTP accused of being a sociopath is just misunderstood.

 

[A window to the soul]

Sociopathic sure looks adorably genius in cashmere.

 

[HomerSoprano]

INTP´s lack the talent of manipulating people. Which ESxP have lots of.

 

[rav3n]

You might be an INTP sociopath if you've tangentially moved away from plotting crimes, to creating the perfect way to catch yourself.

 

[JocktheMotie]

INTPs are more likely to be schizoid or avoidant.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

A psychopath is no planner. He is destructive and focus only on the present moment. He possesses a shallow kind of charm and is a pathological liar. His lies though are most often inconsistent and ill-planned, thus easy to spot. When confronted with his lies, the pyschopath will just act like he never told that lie or cover it up with another one. He is also a lazy person who will try to manipulate others into doing what he wants. A real psychopath is nothing like the "movie-psychopath"; an ultra-intelligent schemer with aristocratic manners, who's hellbent for world domination.

As a rule, they do not possess superior intelligence. Just like the rest of us, they are all over the intellectual spectrum, ranging from "poorly gifted" to "genius". I'd say that a real life-psycho is not intuitive at all, in the MBTI sense. Most likely they are Se users (often their dominant function) coupled with shallow Fe used to charm and manipulate. They are not in any way representative of ESTP's, but I would say that most psychopaths would fit the ESTP function order.

There's nothing to say it's impossible for a psychopath to be a planner hell-bent on world domination. They just need to lack empathy.

 

[A window to the soul]

INTP´s lack the talent of manipulating people. Which ESxP have lots of.

^True. INTP's are pretty assertive when they want to be; not resorting to manipulation. When assertion fails, an INTP might briefly become perplexed as to what's wrong with the other person before becoming avoidant. Healthy INTP's can be pretty selfless and good to the core. Easy going.

An INTP might stick around and 'play dumb' just long enough to confirm they are on the receiving end of bad manipulation though. Throwing out a few litmus tests in the process.

INTP's seem to be good about speaking up for what they want or steering people in the right direction with logic or logical questions to make one 'think' (not to be confused with sociopathic manipulation; not the same thing). I think it all boils down to good vs. bad intentions. I've never met an INTP with bad intentions that would plot out to manipulate people.

You might be an INTP sociopath if you've tangentially moved away from plotting crimes, to creating the perfect way to catch yourself.

INTPs are more likely to be schizoid or avoidant.

There's nothing to say it's impossible for a psychopath to be a planner hell-bent on world domination. They just need to lack empathy.

^^^

 

[ZPowers]

I may have been accused of being antisocial before, but only by someone confusing the meaning as "someone who shies away from social events."

I don't anyone who knows me would call me sociopathic. I can't come up with a good argument why (most) forms of life are less important than my own, and, if it is a viable option, I catch spiders, moths and other insects and put them outside instead of killing them. The only thing I have ever knowingly killed larger than a bug was an injured mouse, which bothered me intensely. I am morally uncomfortable with eating meat, and the idea of hunting (for sport, not out of need) is disgusting to me. All these issues, of course, derive from the starting conceit that human life is valuable. While it is true all my assessments in these areas began, essentially, as strict logic, once I found them valid I could transfer fully to emotion and empathy.

However: I know people who would call me inconsiderate or oblivious to others' feelings in a heartbeat.

 

[WorldSocionics]

They're probably confusing Aspergic traits with Psychopathic ones, they can seem pretty similar.

 

[BÃ¥rris]

Yeah, my ENFJ friend says (jokingly, i hope) that I'm a sociopath.
I can easily see what she means, but I can't really see my self as one.

My ENFP friend also says that I'm anti-social. :/

 

[HomerSoprano]

^True. INTP's are pretty assertive when they want to be; not resorting to manipulation. When assertion fails, an INTP might briefly become perplexed as to what's wrong with the other person before becoming avoidant. Healthy INTP's can be pretty selfless and good to the core. Easy going.

An INTP might stick around and 'play dumb' just long enough to confirm they are on the receiving end of bad manipulation though. Throwing out a few litmus tests in the process.

INTP's seem to be good about speaking up for what they want or steering people in the right direction with logic or logical questions to make one 'think' (not to be confused with sociopathic manipulation; not the same thing). I think it all boils down to good vs. bad intentions. I've never met an INTP with bad intentions that would plot out to manipulate people.

^^^

And we got to remember that most people who throw around words like psychopath, sociopath etc etc dont know what they are talking about.

 

[miss fortune]

Interestingly, I have not actually come across an ESTP psychopath, although I have found the odd ISTP. Psychopaths are actually found to have above average intelligence in most cases, which is a feeder for their more narcissistic traits such as a 'grandiose sense of self worth' or being 'cunning/manipulative'. Cleckley describes the psychopath as 'intelligent'. You forget, Katharsis that most psychopaths are not in prison but are very successful in society, with their aggressive narcissism traits outweighing the effects of social deviancy and granting them the ruthlessness to flourish in professions like the business world. Where the psychopathic and sociopathic disorders overlap i.e. the reckless criminals who dangerously act on impulse without a thought to the consequences (high social deviancy, not as high aggressive narcissism), I would imagine a psychopathological ESTP to lie. Those smart enough to control their impulses for a greater goal 'Ne instead of Se', would be ENTP.

Although fictional and quite caricatured, two good examples of the two would be The Comedian ESTP and The Joker ENTP. One often resorts to mindless violence while the other plots and schemes before unleashing his destruction. Both are impulsive, but one acts in the moment while the other with a mind to the future and consequences. Interestingly, the Joker takes his evil to the extreme, strongly representing the psychopathic traits while the Comedian actually shows remorse shortly before his demise (like many Se users, he acts without considering how he will feel later). One shows psychopathic behaviour while the other sociopathic (AsPD).

I resent the implication that I'm stupid... or not even very bright

 

[A window to the soul]

I resent the implication that I'm stupid... or not even very bright

Awww, I think you're the brightest crayon in the box...

 

[Reflection]

And we got to remember that most people who throw around words like psychopath, sociopath etc etc dont know what they are talking about.

Oh, yes. Such as the idiot psychiatrist who tried to shove me into the sociopath box when I was just 14. Even though I barely fit 3 of the 7 key symptoms and even then you can't really diagnose a teenager (especially if they don't fit the symptoms).

 

[WorldSocionics]

I resent the implication that I'm stupid... or not even very bright

xSxP types aren't necessarily stupid, they just don't tend to think before they act. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Kaveri]

I have a policy of letting the emotions and empathy come as it does rather than forcing it. They usually come on an inconsistent basis -- if I don't have any today, don't expect any, because I'm not creating any artificial empathy just for you. Aside from this decision not to 'force' them, I can be quite emotional but just suck at expressing them.

Ah, this! I don't have feelings for other people often but I very rarely fake feelings. I remember when I was in high school and a boy in our school died and everyone signed a memorial for him-- I did't. It would have felt stupid to sign the memorial when I didn't grieve the guy, hadn't even known him, he just happened to attend the same school. So I didn't take part in the "shared grief".

A sociopath, on the other hand, probably would have signed it just to appear empathetic to others.

 

[knight]

you know, alot of people have been watching "dexter"

labels like this tend to cause people or family to, devalue your experiences overall with them, people ask questions if you ever cared. they start thinking you are a monster and such. next thing you know, like you have the time for this crap, they start testing you will little silly stuff. placing values on little moments.
you end up being miserable for a while

these people need to pop open a f-ing book instead of watching tv all day and read something, if they are that hard up in diagnosing you, they need to log some clinical time with a real life sociopath

 

[PH.]

I honestly don't know what being an INTP has to do anything at all with sociopathy. So you don't show your emotions often, but that doesn't mean you don't have them. So you don't always see what (if) another person is feeling. It is not as if you like victimizing them now. There is a huge difference between "not social" and "sociopath".

Sociopaths don't fit any type, they have a personality disorder.

 

[Fluffywolf]

There is a huge difference between "not social" and "sociopath".

Amen!