[MBTI General] MBTI + Functions = Frustration

[Engler]

At this point, I have essentially given up on attempting to link my MBTI type to a given set of cognitive functions, for the following reasons:

1) Without attempting to delve into functions, I identify fairly well with the INTP personality type. I enjoy theorizing, and I tend to keep to myself. I am independent, skeptical, and fascinated by science.

2)...However, after studying the various functions, and after taking numerous tests, it would seem as though my most developed function is introverted intuition, followed closely by extraverted intuition.

3) Furthermore, my introverted feeling is also very developed, despite the fact that I have a strong thinking preference.

I would say that my "cognitive function preference list" looks something like this:

Ni - Ne - Ti - Fi - Te - Si - Se - Fe

In any event, I am clearly not an INTJ (my Pness is colossal).

And so, my question is this: Is there any reason to doubt my INTPness, or is it simply an unusual, but insignificant, personal characteristic?

 

[Quinlan]

Hmm I tend to think of function order as seperate from function development. You can have well developed functions outside of (or even above) your natural order.

To me:

Function order = nature
Function development = nuture

So if you relate to the INTP type description and see that as closest (doesn't need to fit perfectly) to your natural/default state then I would say you're INTP with function development outside your natural order, INTP nonetheless

 

[Jeffster]

Function order = nature
Function development = nuture

What good is the "function order" then, if it doesn't reflect reality?

 

[Quinlan]

What good is the "function order" then, if it doesn't reflect reality?

Well they tell you different things, function order = what comes natural to you, function development = what you're good at. They may or may not match depending on how much you and others have nutured those parts of yourself.

Function development is like a career, lawyer for example, you could be very good at your job as a lawyer but you would still rather be a painter/musician where you may not have the ability (due to lack of training) but you do have the natural inclination (it makes you feel good).

 

[Engler]

Well they tell you different things, function order = what comes natural to you, function development = what you're good at. They may or may not match depending on how much you and others have nutured those parts of yourself.

Function development is like a career, lawyer for example, you could be very good at your job as a lawyer but you would still rather be a painter/musician where you may not have the ability (due to lack of training) but you do have the natural inclination (it makes you feel good).

That's just it, though; introverted intuition is a natural inclination of mine, as it has always been.

The INTP function order would have me believe that my natural inclination should be towards introverted thinking, but in my experience, it has not been my dominant function.

 

[Quinlan]

Perhaps you're misinterpreting your use of Ti+Ne together as Ni?

 

[Engler]

Perhaps you're misinterpreting your use of Ti+Ne together as Ni?

Perhaps, but what indicators might exist that would allow me to determine whether or not I am misinterpreting TiNe as Ni?

 

[Quinlan]

Perhaps, but what indicators might exist that would allow me to determine whether or not I am misinterpreting TiNe as Ni?

How much you relate to the INTP descriptions over either INTJ or INFJ. The INTP description is basically describing what TiNe (mostly) looks like.

 

[Jeffster]

Function development is like a career, lawyer for example, you could be very good at your job as a lawyer but you would still rather be a painter/musician where you may not have the ability (due to lack of training) but you do have the natural inclination (it makes you feel good).

I'm familiar with the concept of nature and nurture, but my question is, if the natural order doesn't amount to anything, what is the point in designating it with any significance? I mean, it seems silly to me to say "ISFP is Fi-Se-Ni-Te" and hold to that with rigidity if an individual does not follow that pattern in any real sense.

 

[Engler]

[Taken from keirsey.com]

These are the traits that I deeply identify with:

INTP -

They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made.

Ruthless pragmatists about ideas, and insatiably curious, Architects are driven to find the most efficient means to their ends, and they will learn in any manner and degree they can. They will listen to amateurs if their ideas are useful, and will ignore the experts if theirs are not. Authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them.

They are inclined to be shy except with close friends, and their reserve is difficult to penetrate. Able to concentrate better than any other type, they prefer to work quietly at their computers or drafting tables, and often alone. Architects also become obsessed with analysis, and this can seem to shut others out. Once caught up in a thought process, Architects close off and persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. Architects prize intelligence, and with their grand desire to grasp the structure of the universe, they can seem arrogant and may show impatience with others who have less ability, or who are less driven.

INTJ -

Trying to anticipate every contingency, Masterminds never set off on their current project without a Plan A firmly in mind, but they are always prepared to switch to Plan B or C or D if need be.

Although they are highly capable leaders, Masterminds are not at all eager to take command, preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their inability to lead.

Masterminds do not feel bound by established rules and procedures, and traditional authority does not impress them, nor do slogans or catchwords. Only ideas that make sense to them are adopted; those that don't, aren't, no matter who thought of them.

Masterminds are highly theoretical, but they insist on looking at all available data before they embrace an idea, and they are suspicious of any statement that is based on shoddy research, or that is not checked against reality.

INFJ -

They are highly private people, with an unusually rich, complicated inner life. Friends or colleagues who have known them for years may find sides emerging which come as a surprise. Not that Counselors are flighty or scattered; they value their integrity a great deal, but they have mysterious, intricately woven personalities which sometimes puzzle even them.

Blessed with vivid imaginations, Counselors are often seen as the most poetical of all the types, and in fact they use a lot of poetic imagery in their everyday language.

 

[Quinlan]

I'm familiar with the concept of nature and nurture, but my question is, if the natural order doesn't amount to anything, what is the point in designating it with any significance? I mean, it seems silly to me to say "ISFP is Fi-Se-Ni-Te" and hold to that with rigidity if an individual does not follow that pattern in any real sense.

If they don't follow the pattern then I would assume they may feel a bit out of sorts or like they're "living someone else's life". We know that society often doesn't accept people just being themselves, I think there is significance in understanding what makes people feel fulfilled. As a male haven't you ever felt that you have to reign in your Fi a bit? Haven't you ever felt the need to fake extraversion to fit in better? Couldn't we do with a little less of that and a bit more understanding? If I see people as a tool then all I'm concerned with is their development but if I see them as people then I'm very concerned by what is going to make them feel good, fulfilled.

 

[Engler]

I agree with Jeffster; how can a type's natural function order be determined if their actual function order is based upon experiential development?

I dare say that there is no clear link between function and type preference.

 

[laughingebony]

I mean, it seems silly to me to say "ISFP is Fi-Se-Ni-Te" and hold to that with rigidity if an individual does not follow that pattern in any real sense.

Solution: Don't "hold to [it] with rigidity."

I dare say that there is no clear link between function and type preference.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Snow Turtle]

The function order that was given, is it what you believe is natural and developed to you or is it what is reflective in function order tests?

Function ordering is much more flexible, especially since MBTI doesn't deal with the shadow functions. Thinking about what they really mention there...

INTP roughly = Ti, Ne, [Shadows with Si] followed by Fe being the weakest.

It needn't be a complicated theory. You could just take the results to be an over usage of intuition, plus development of Ni due to high usage of Ti. Those two functions can be very similar which is the reason that INFJs can be known for overanalyzing and making giant leaps when dealing with Ti & Ni combo. Does Ni come across more naturally than Ti, or is it a result of Ti constantly being used when looking back over time?

You'll notice that the Se contrasts Ni which is sort of a possible indicator that an individual growing up, you might have essentially rejected the whole sensory present experiencing things in favour of analysing and interpreting surroundings.

High Fi is usually an indicator of desired personal development. A person interested in this field will naturally develop this over time. I find that most analytical people are interested in bettering themselves as well, so it'd make sense that they would try understand themselves and their values better in order to proceed in life.

 

[Engler]

Certainly, my supposedly high introverted intuition could be due to an excessive use of introverted thinking, paired with a rejection of sensory stimuli.

I have no doubt that functions are developed via experience, so this would make sense.

 

[BlackCat]

All that test does really is tells you your function STRENGTHS, not your function USES. Pretty much every INTP will use the same functions for the same things generally, but they may be strong in other ones. Don't let that test confuse you too much... It just seems like it's there for fun.

 

["?"]

At this point, I have essentially given up on attempting to link my MBTI type to a given set of cognitive functions, for the following reasons:

1) Without attempting to delve into functions, I identify fairly well with the INTP personality type. I enjoy theorizing, and I tend to keep to myself. I am independent, skeptical, and fascinated by science.

2)...However, after studying the various functions, and after taking numerous tests, it would seem as though my most developed function is introverted intuition, followed closely by extraverted intuition.

3) Furthermore, my introverted feeling is also very developed, despite the fact that I have a strong thinking preference.

I would say that my "cognitive function preference list" looks something like this:

Ni - Ne - Ti - Fi - Te - Si - Se - Fe

In any event, I am clearly not an INTJ (my Pness is colossal).

And so, my question is this: Is there any reason to doubt my INTPness, or is it simply an unusual, but insignificant, personal characteristic?

Which is the reason that you should take the time to delve into funcitons. You may have some development of the functions as you see them, however you would determine that Ni-Ne combined would give you no substance or grounding. There are days that my Fe is very strong. My Fi is almost non-existent. When you determine type by mere dichotomies, it becomes quite confusing because you look at them as either/or (E/I, S/N, T/F, J/P). When looking at type from functions, you appreciate the fluidness...(Today I am using my Ti mildly and my Ne very strong/nevertheless on any given day I prefer Ti over Ne). Jung says that the functions are not rigid, however MBTI has to make them somewhat rigid in order to incorporate an assessment.

 

[garbage]

My functions are "all screwed up" too. They've pointed to just about every type under the sun for me. I'm trying a new one today; tomorrow, I'll probably be something different I seem to be more organized and more accommodating than some of my closest IRL ENTP bretheren, but the type still kind of fits. But, then, any ENxx fits for me, too. This is because my own function order is out of whack.

For you, high Ne and Ni points to a super-high dominant intuition. Especially since Ne "closely follows" Ni.. taken from most any functional model's standpoint, this points to xNxP. Your function order kind of aligns with Socionics' INTp, too.

The development of one's functional strengths contributes to their overall development as a person, and differing functional strengths point to your individuality within the INTP type.

So, don't worry about it.

 

["?"]

My functions are "all screwed up" too. They've pointed to just about every type under the sun for me. I'm trying a new one today; tomorrow, I'll probably be something different I seem to be more organized and more accommodating than some of my closest IRL ENTP bretheren, but the type still kind of fits. But, then, any ENxx fits for me, too. This is because my own function order is out of whack.

This is exactly what I am saying about too much intuition eliminates a sense of grounding. You are virtually all over the place. Some sensing is needed. On the other hand too much sensing gives way to rigidity and an inability to think outside the box. Both are needed and both can be used.

 

[garbage]

This is exactly what I am saying about too much intuition eliminates a sense of grounding. You are virtually all over the place. Some sensing is needed. On the other hand too much sensing gives way to rigidity and an inability to think outside the box. Both are needed and both can be used.

Nah, what's needed in this particular instance is unifying it all into a single model. That is, applying Ti. But Ne can definitely overpower Ti--"couldn't you look at it this way, too?"

Sensing, however, would kick in when factoring one's experiences into the unifying model. And I do agree with your overall point, too, that balance between any dichotomy is often needed.

My point wasn't to ramble on about myself or my own typing experiences, but more to inform the OP that this is normal, and his functional strengths just point to how he is an individual. We all develop in different ways; our cognitive functions are muscles that are exercised by our individual circumstances.

And to continue on with that point, my ENTP brother-in-law uses Se much more than he does Te--being heavy into sports, mechanics, and the like--which likely helps explain the difference between him and a ENTP with higher Te.