[MBTI General] XNTP & debating

[2XtremeENFP]

how can you tell the difference between ENTPs and INTPs in the style that they debate?

I enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.

 

[Costrin]

INTPs actually make sense.

 

[ajblaise]

I enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.

Debating with ENTPs is easier, that could be why.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

Hahaha oh I don't know about that

Our debates end with finding out we're arguing two completely different things. It's like a communication breakdown

 

[Blackmail!]

how can you tell the difference between ENTPs and INTPs in the style that they debate?

I enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.

I don't know.

Maybe because generally, ENTPs are less serious and more open to possibilities.
Maybe also because ENTPs have the reputation to be the NT subtype which is the least afraid of their emotions.

Maybe because it's the tertiary Fe that drives us to feel liked, however argumentative we may seem.

---

INTPs often are a lot more misanthropic than us, but there are significant exceptions to every rule.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

I agree. Entp seems easier and there are more clear points that are brought up. Any idea why?

 

[Fluffywolf]

I often tend to incorperate many underlying thoughts in a single arguement, wielding the Sword of Sarcasm in one hand and the Shield of Truth in the other.

This often results in arguements that are fairly hard to understand to most people.

Also as it is not always essential for me that others need to understand me. I often don't explain these meanings in detail.

However, to any person I respect and enjoy talking to, I will be as clear as possible, often through great lengths, which can then in turn be interpretted as annoying and forceful, even though that is never the intention.

Ultimatly, we don't really care, as long as we are happy with ourselves.

 

[Sentura]

how can you tell the difference between ENTPs and INTPs in the style that they debate?

I enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.

i really dislike arguing with INFPs and INTPs, i reckon it's because of their S. they often seem like clinging to a certain principle either out of spite or for no real reason other than what may be interpreted as experience. they are stuck in the same perspective and unable to justify another view on things.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

that does make sense, Blackmail. How do you think Fi (like mine being ENFP) and Fe clash as a 4th function in INTPs?

 

[Blackmail!]

INTPs actually make sense.

INTPs are serious gremlins.

ENTPs are playful imps.

 

[substitute]

Hahaha oh I don't know about that

Our debates end with finding out we're arguing two completely different things. It's like a communication breakdown

Yes, same with me and my ENFP.

At least now we can laugh about it, but he used to drive me absolutely insane, so that for a long time I was just put off talking to him at all about anything more interesting than the weather, in case it happened again.

Turns out every time, always the same, that we were arguing against what each other was NOT saying, and in fact, both agree with each other once we establish at last what we ARE saying!

 

[2XtremeENFP]

that's how I feel with my INTP friend, Substitute! It's so frustrating :-/ sometimes we laugh about it, sometimes we're pissed

 

[Blackmail!]

that does make sense, Blackmail. How do you think Fi (like mine being ENFP) and Fe clash as a 4th function in INTPs?

Well, most of the time, INTPs are almost devoid of any F function. They are global system thinkers, they simply do not understand Feelers, or look very childish when under the influence of Fe or Fi.

And you know, people often attack what they do not understand, or pretend it doesn't exist if the new parameter doesn't seem to fit, if they cannot integrate it into their internal system.

---

A typical ENTP will also experience lot of difficulties to understand Fi (it's really alien for us), but at last, we do not dismiss it as a possible valid behavior. You won't be judged or considered "inferior" for that. It's the magic of Ne-dom!
And most of the time, we are more curious than obnoxiously argumentative. We are curious even of Fi, and what this function could possibly mean.

Extreme intellectual curiosity is a distinct trait we share with our ENFP brethren. We take into consideration every possibility, however dissonant it may appear at first glance. Anything that gets us out of boredoom.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I only seem to use Fe among friends and family. But never elsewhere.

 

[Qre:us]

how can you tell the difference between ENTPs and INTPs in the style that they debate?

Beat ya at your own game. I'd say that's the striking difference between ENTP and INTP in debates. I think it's the effect of Ne leading versus Ti leading....and then, Fe coming up more predominately in ENTP than INTP.

Meaning, it makes an ENTP dance hither and tither in an argument, while an INTP charts the pre-determined course. But, Ti allows both to keep a focus on the central theme of the argument. Ever the NT.

I will come into a debate with my rationalizations (inferred demand for logic, etc, etc), and, if I see that the other isn't meeting me there, yet, holding strong....and my curiosity is piqued enough, I will take it on as a personal challenge, to meet them in their playing field, and annihilate them.

So, if they want to get all metaphorical on me (lack 'logic'), and if I am interested enough to play, I will take on the debate in 'their terms' and volley back, presented in the same context they offered, while countering.

As a generalization, from what I've encountered, I can mimic well the patterns of my receipient and morph my position to be presented accordingly, while an INTP sticks to their 'style', irregardless of the receipient's mode.

This might explain why you:

enjoy debating with ENTPs but not with INTPs and I can't put my finger on why.

Ne is open to possibilites, and Fe picks up well the nuances of the receipient's context. The good side of the coin.

The bad side of this coin:

This could also be the reason I know, without a doubt, that I sometimes antagonize, irritate, and rub some other's the wrong way (with their perceived distate of my supposed arrogance) when engaging in a debate.

(I know full well who wants to see my ass get owned)....it amuses me to no end.

Just as easily as I can morph to entertain your point of view, I can just as easily manipulate them....which, most times, leads my receipients to respond with thundering silence. Or, dissolve the argument into personal affront turned insults. Which, I'm also game.

Cuz I'm a prick with whom they won't get anywhere (except, starting to get under their skin ). I make their playing field mine more than theirs and the territory crossing doesn't sit well with some others. But, it's within my control...and I usually resort to this when I feel a vibe that they're aiming to move away from a civilized debate/exchange. Then, yes, the gauntlet will be swung.

Ya bring the game, I aim to finish it. Online forums are not as fun in playing this out as in real life in real time, though....

If, on the other hand, you want to engage in a debate to exchange ideas, thoughts, and we meet at that level....then, there's no game, just exciting exchange of knowledge. You will get my utmost respect.

Play to the audience, I guess.

* but, that's just this one ENTP's perception...so, take that how ya will.

 

[jenocyde]

As a generalization, from what I've encountered, I can mimic well the patterns of my receipient and morph my position to be presented accordingly, while an INTP sticks to their 'style', irregardless of the receipient's mode.

Exactly.

 

[Blank]

You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.

I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
/intelligence complex/

 

[marmandahalf]

This thread makes me want to debate someone right now. Preferably an ENFP.

 

[jenocyde]

You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.

I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
/intelligence complex/

And this is the point. I don't condescend to anyone, I just speak in their comfort zone. I can cross into nastier tones if that's what I'm faced with, but I never lead with that.

 

[Qre:us]

You make it sound as though an INTP can't play by someone else's rules and beat them at their own debate.

How did you infer this?

More accurately, I made it sound like, compared between an ENTP and an INTP, as a personality profile, an ENTP would be better equipped at this than INTP (see my justification through functional orders).

To give real world applicability, from my own perspective as an ENTP, engaging with INTPs, this has been the case. You could very well prove this wrong. But, this would not be about comparing an ENTP and an INTP profile, then, but, comparing you to me. Where I just happen to be of the ENTP variety, and you of the INTP variety.

Ya wanna play?

I do it all of the time in a condescending way to show my greater intelligence.
/intelligence complex/

All the time? To prove your intelligence? Meh. Me? I don't gotta prove my intelligence, just disprove theirs if (and only if) they come off condescending. My content of the debate, are my testement to my intelligence, regardless of the bells and whistles (context, being secondary aim of mine..if even an aim, depends).

My main aim and challenge is to always impress myself first, if my audience happens to be as well, meh, so be it. And, as much as I can bullshit others, I can't bullshit myself. Which makes this challenge, imo, more worthy.