[NT] NTs, just plain rude?

[forzen]

l2english, you noob.

Haha, sorry English is my second language . Of course that's not a excuse, but meh.

 

[Feops]

My parents constantly remind me what I'm a self-absorbed little jackass.

I don't think I'm rude. I'm polite and all that. But I don't attached the emotional.. ah.. weight to certain things that other seem to get upset about. I forgot to wish my mother a happy birthday last month and this was apparantly traumatic for her. I should have wished her a happy birthday, but the amount of drama is spawned was horrific. Bleh!

 

[Vildechaya]

For years my ESFJ mother has been on my case about my lack of consideration for other people's feeling, or put more plainly, my rudeness. I've always known her opinion of me was fairly accurate.

What I'm wondering is whether rudeness is the true defining feature of the NT personality? For a while I thought it was, perhaps, just an NTJ thing. Then I realized that were just as many, if not more, rude NTPs. After that I considered that the rude/not rude split might be along E/I lines....now I feel fairly confident that the INTs are just as rude as the ENTs. Are NTs, as a group, just rude people?

Disclaimer: If you think you're a polite NT, please feel free to politely share with us why you think that's the case. I don't want to start another flamewar between the NTs, I just would like to know how other NTs see themselves.

The ESFJ is almost always critical of the NT for something. They seem to enjoy trying to 'take us down a peg or two'
They are almost as hard on us as we can be to each other.

 

[Saslou]

The ESFJ is almost always critical of the NT for something. They seem to enjoy trying to 'take us down a peg or two'
They are almost as hard on us as we can be to each other.

I am only here because i am intrigued. I will shortly scuffle off to my safe place.

You are so right, it is not even funny. Thank god i only knew 2 intj's, that is more than enough. lol.

The only reason i tried to take both of them down a peg or two is because don't get me wrong you express your views with conviction. Just as i do but these 2 people, i couldn't be right, their views were gospal even though my point was also valid. I think it is somewhat closed mindedness. Its like a 'holier than thou' perception these 2 had about themselves.

Some of you lot in this thread are quite funny. I think that is the problem with you Vs me .. When you don't take yourself seriously, you are super cool people and i think you are amazing, i do love your minds. The problem is when you take yourself seriously then well its like an atomic bomb going off. Run for cover.

Please tell me if you think i am wrong??? Just keep it light hearted, or else i am never going to venture here again.

 

[juggernaut]

I am only here because i am intrigued. I will shortly scuffle off to my safe place.

You are so right, it is not even funny. Thank god i only knew 2 intj's, that is more than enough. lol.

The only reason i tried to take both of them down a peg or two is because don't get me wrong you express your views with conviction. Just as i do but these 2 people, i couldn't be right, their views were gospal even though my point was also valid. I think it is somewhat closed mindedness. Its like a 'holier than thou' perception these 2 had about themselves.

Some of you lot in this thread are quite funny. I think that is the problem with you Vs me .. When you don't take yourself seriously, you are super cool people and i think you are amazing, i do love your minds. The problem is when you take yourself seriously then well its like an atomic bomb going off. Run for cover.

Please tell me if you think i am wrong??? Just keep it light hearted, or else i am never going to venture here again.

I suppose it's possible. I rarely take myself seriously so it's hard to say. I enjoy a good debate, and I prefer not to have to constantly couch the things I say in order to make sure my conversation partner is not being emotionally injured, so sometimes I just say what I have to say and hope for the best. Clearly, this doesn't always work well when in the company of more sensitive types. Ts and NTs, in particular, will generally ask for clarification rather than assume they've been insulted...in my experience. I've basically gotten to the point that I won't bother with topics that I know will prove incendiary with Fs. My mom is, of course, the exception. If she can't deal with me after almost 40 years ...:rolli: (of course my mom is married to an ENTJ, my dad, so she's used to it and has my sis, ESFP, to cry to when it gets to be too much).

IRL I generally steer clear of situations where I know there's a risk I'll piss someone off. Unfortunately, it's hard to here because we can't see or hear each other. It's easy to assume the worst.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Not "rude" just "sadistic."

 

[Sentura]

The ESFJ is almost always critical of the NT for something. They seem to enjoy trying to 'take us down a peg or two'
They are almost as hard on us as we can be to each other.

christ, the world doesn't need people to take each other down a peg. that's not how progress happens. i would immediately shun anyone who would try and "take me down a peg" without any logical merit.

 

[juggernaut]

christ, the world doesn't need people to take each other down a peg. that's not how progress happens. i would immediately shun anyone who would try and "take me down a peg" without any logical merit.

Including your mother? (Sheeeesh, and I thought Ts were cold!<--For anyone who may be unclear, THIS IS A JOKE)

 

[jenocyde]

I suppose it's possible. I rarely take myself seriously so it's hard to say. I enjoy a good debate, and I prefer not to have to constantly couch the things I say in order to make sure my conversation partner is not being emotionally injured, so sometimes I just say what I have to say and hope for the best. Clearly, this doesn't always work well when in the company of more sensitive types. Ts and NTs, in particular, will generally ask for clarification rather than assume they've been insulted...in my experience. I've basically gotten to the point that I won't bother with topics that I know will prove incendiary with Fs. My mom is, of course, the exception. If she can't deal with me after almost 40 years ...:rolli: (of course my mom is married to an ENTJ, my dad, so she's used to it and has my sis, ESFP, to cry to when it gets to be too much).

IRL I generally steer clear of situations where I know there's a risk I'll piss someone off. Unfortunately, it's hard to here because we can't see or hear each other. It's easy to assume the worst.

I agree. It's not worth the effort most times. I generally back out and Fe you to death - it's easier than dealing with the aftermath of a 3 hour bitch-and-cry session. I've learned to pick my battles and my words over the years. But it wasn't easy and it still feels like lying.

 

[Quinlan]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

 

[Costrin]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

 

[jenocyde]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

How do you come to the conclusion that we upset easily on these forums?

Irl, when I use short, concise and clear words, I am accused of being upset - but I am just trying to get my point across with no room for misunderstanding and there is no emotion behind it. A lot of people use this manner of speaking when they are upset, so maybe that's why they assume that I am?

I'm very curious to understand what 'upset NT' looks like to you.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

I personally don't get upset easily. It's extremely difficult to upset me. I bottle emotion up to a threshold. Once that threshold is breached :steam:. I don't see why that is so surprising. Everyone has a threshold. Some people have a very low threshold and let go in small bursts. Some people, like me, save it up and let go all at once.

 

[Quinlan]

I could elaborate but I wouldn't want to upset anyone.

 

[heart]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

I'd say this too, mostly about the female T's. Not all of them, but a fair sized portion of them will take an issue, state it in debate-like, conflict provoking terms terms and then when others start debating the issue they say "You're invalidating my feelings/chioces."

Which is just ridiculous when they've stated their opinions in such a way that slams everyone who disagrees with their choice or they make a really disaparaging comment about the choice they disagree with. They can't seem to understand, that opens the whole topic up for debate, you did not just merely state a feeling, you gave a disaparaging opinion about other people and you need to expect feedback, not all of it good. Either be ready for that or don't express your feelings in such a way that slams other people and their choices.

To me this seems so self-evident I have a hard time accepting that when they do this they aren't trying to be deliberately provoking or self-centered, but I've come to the conclusion that they really do seem to have a blindness about their own emotional-fueled behavior. That they often cannot be reasonable when their feelings come into the picture, which is the opposite of what I would have expected before I started interacting on these boards.

They make general, censuring comments about an issue and then when others disagree, they claim others are attacking their personal choices.

It comes accross as them wanting to be able to attack others as a group for making choices they do not agree with but at the same time expecting special protection not to have the side of the issue they agree with questioned in any impersonal or general terms under the guise of "these are my feelings."

It is like they cannot find the dividing line between general opinions and personal feelings in the scope of debate.

Of course it makes me re-think all the females in my life who I thought were F because of this tendancy.

 

[A Schnitzel]

I'm never rude, sarcasm just happens to be my native tongue.

 

[Kasper]

Funnily enough around here it's the NTs that I've found I have to tip toe around, they can get upset easily...

*tiptoes out of the thread*

And I thought we were friends!

 

[jenocyde]

I'd say this too, mostly about the female T's. Not all of them, but a fair sized portion of them will take an issue, state it in debate-like, conflict provoking terms terms and then when others start debating the issue they say "You're invalidating my feelings/chioces."

Which is just ridiculous when they've stated their opinions in such a way that slams everyone who disagrees with their choice or they make a really disaparaging comment about the choice they disagree with. They can't seem to understand, that opens the whole topic up for debate, you did not just merely state a feeling, you gave a disaparaging opinion about other people and you need to expect feedback, not all of it good. Either be ready for that or don't express your feelings in such a way that slams other people and their choices.

To me this seems so self-evident I have a hard time accepting that when they do this they aren't trying to be deliberately provoking or self-centered, but I've come to the conclusion that they really do seem to have a blindness about their own emotional-fueled behavior. That they often cannot be reasonable when their feelings come into the picture, which is the opposite of what I would have expected before I started interacting on these boards.

They make general, censuring comments about an issue and then when others disagree, they claim others are attacking their personal choices.

It comes accross as them wanting to be able to attack others as a group for making choices they do not agree with but at the same time expecting special protection not to have the side of the issue they agree with questioned in any impersonal or general terms under the guise of "these are my feelings."

It is like they cannot find the dividing line between general opinions and personal feelings in the scope of debate.

Of course it makes me re-think all the females in my life who I thought were F because of this tendancy.

Maybe you take a personal opinion about something as a slam against your own beliefs, when none was intended. I find, when dealing with Fi doms particularly, that I am not allowed to deviate from their personal value system.

I can honestly say that when I express a personal opinion about my own life, it's not up for debate, it's just a statement of how I conduct my life. We can discuss why I feel that way, for sure - but I won't accept someone telling me that I am wrong for feeling that way. I've never gotten upset that people disagree with my way of thinking, I do get upset when someone pesters me and tells me that I am wrong in thinking the way I do. I get "slammed" a lot from people who disagree with my lifestyle choices and continue to belabor the issue when I've clearly said "hey, there is no point in arguing. this is my life and my choice - do whatever makes you happy and allow me to do the same".

My irritation with other people's personal vendettas against my way of life has nothing to do with me being upset about the actual argument. I am more than open to discuss anything, but I am not open to baseless judgments from people who don't even try to understand where I'm coming from - so maybe that's where the productive communication ends on my end.

 

[wolfy]

Bunch of rude buggers!

 

[heart]

I can honestly say that when I express a personal opinion about my own life, it's not up for debate, it's just a statement of how I conduct my life. We can discuss why I feel that way, for sure - but I won't accept someone telling me that I am wrong for feeling that way. I've never gotten upset that people disagree with my way of thinking, I do get upset when someone pesters me and tells me that I am wrong in thinking the way I do.

Where do you draw the line between someone disagreeing with your opinion on their choices and when someone is actually slamming you for being wrong for the way you think (or feel)?

Then once you've decided they intended to attack your personal values in a debate, how do you decide their continued responses are a true vendetta on your way of life instead of them defending against your charges that they've felt, said or done things in a way that they are trying to explain they haven't?


A general comment not meant for any one person:

But really I've pretty much come to the conclusion that thinkers *can be* a real emotional mine field, one cannot know when they are being "logical" or when some random feeling is going to cause them to rephrase what is written or said or to assign motives that aren't there, etc. And there's no talking to them once this happens. With another feeler, when you've stepped on their feelings, one can simply explain and try to move on but some thinkers seem unable to trust other people's feelings and have blind spots about their own. I've been accused of being the devil on here because I disagreed with a thinker's opinion about network news. Everything was rational up to that point and after I trappled on their scared cow there was no reasoning with them.