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  1. #91
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Jul 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    See, if the OPPONENT has to learn whot their own position actually means, either they realize they're wrong, making the entp happy that they won via understanding, or they provide a point that makes sense, changing the ENTP's own beliefs, thereby making the entp happy that they just learned something new.

    Either way, it's win-win.
    It's good to see you write this, because I was starting to think that I was the only ENTP that thought this way. There is rarely such a thing as a win-lose argument. The vast majority of "arguments" are either win-win or lose-lose. If we listen to each other and someone corrects their position because they realize they were wrong then it's win-win. If someone in the debate refuses to listen then it's lose-lose, because communication has broken down. The only way you can really have a win-lose debate is if you are running for elected office or something and manage to swing more voters to your side.
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  2. #92
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008


    Good question - and I'm probably just agreeing with everyone else.

    I like to argue about a subject (no enjoyment arguing with people). I like to explore peoples thinking and why they think like that and my own thoughts and why I think like that.

    Although debates can get competitive, it's not about winning I don't think, more about trying to get from the fluffy zone of P type - into a more concrete poit of view. Therefore even explorin an idea with yourself helps with that. I do tend to see multiple sides of the same issue (which I often walk people through at work). When I get locked into a competitive situation I will argue to win, but on the main the bigger picture with debate is not contest its exploration.

    If I have firmly held beliefs which I don't think people have understood, I will argue in order to get understanding. I often have REALLY big thoughts about things so forumlating the scale of thought simply enough for other people to understand what the hell I am talking about can be really difficult - more so if they are closed minded and get distracted by communications device that I try to employ to help convey the ideas. I get pretty fiesty about trying to explain the concept which is difficult if other people don't know me

    A good argument you can go and look at... is the debate I had with Decline last week. We were discussing drug usage - I was taking the Anti soft drugs being safe role, he the opposite... it was a good debate... went on for a day or two... he didn't get abusive of attacking but neither of us yeilded possition. (as a side note I always new the debate would lead to this peice of research for this against - those conversations do)... we went though a variety of different dynamics about the issue that I thought was really productive - it wasn't about the outcome (that was a no brainer stalemate before we even started), it was about exploring the views and seeing what fell out - I learned stuff and I'm sure he did too.

    Unfortunately no everyone can take exploration of thier beleifs and they get feirsly defensive/attacking which I find offensive if it is personal and not about the issue.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Sep 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Also, on a personal real life level, because I've noticed a couple of times they'll keep on amping up the insults until they finally go too far. Like, almost as if it's not real until they do some damage...

    Yeah, I think Fe tries to discredit or dishearten their opponent with insults. Throw a strong Ti in their which actually has good logic behind it, and this can be very frustrating to the receiver. I don't think they want to do damage, I think it is the natural tendency of getting fired up about what they are talking about and then their weaker Fe taking over a bit too much. It works quicker for them (or is more stimulated by external events), and is easier for them to express than the Ti, and they can go over to it spontaneously when they really should be sticking to their Ti to use logic in their arguments.

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