[NT] ENTP vs ENTJ: who is more powerful

[Blackmail!]

I didn't laugh.

 

[entropie]

Not even a tiny tiny little smile ?

 

[Blackmail!]

It must be German humor. :rolli:

 

[entropie]

Yaya, I got it. I'll go back to whatever I was doing

 

[Blackmail!]

Yaya, I got it. I'll go back to whatever I was doing

You mean, finishing your bottle of cheap scotch?

 

[Edgar]

It must be German humor. :rolli:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSdxqIBfEAw"]German Humor[/YOUTUBE]

 

[entropie]

You are really really cruel people !

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKdhuHgdwo"]Freunde bleiben[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Edgar]

You are really really cruel people !

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKdhuHgdwo"]Freunde bleiben[/YOUTUBE]

The only thing that Tokio Hotel is cruel to is my heterosexuality.

 

[entropie]

Yea, Bill is a wise man and not even 15 years old !

 

[yenom]

I think the real difference is that ENTJs create plans to do something. And, ENTPs create plans to avoid doing something.

define doing something.
If my body is using energy, isn't it doing something?
my brain is using energy, isn't it doing?

Why do I need a plan and go J if I want to do something?

Infinity and time will eventually push me towards my goal, everyday I am making an effort to go there, what can stop me?

Pain, death , giving up? Not J enough?

 

[yenom]

The Foolish Old Man Removes the Mountains


The Foolish Old Man of the North Mountain, nearly ninety years of age, lived behind these mountains. He was unhappy about the fact that the mountains blocked his way to the south and he had to walk round them whenever he went our or came back, so he called the whole family together to talk about the matter. " What would you say," he said to them,"if I suggest that all of us work hard to level the two mountains, so as to open a way to places south of Yu Prefecture and the Han River?" Many voices said they agreed to the idea.

But his wife had her doubts. "With your strength," she said, "you could hardly remove a small hill like Kuifu. What could you do with the Taihang and Wangwu Mountains? Besides, where could you deposit the earth and rocks.?"

"Carry them to the shores of the Bohai Sea and north of Yintu," said several people.

The old man, helped by his son and grandson who could carry things, began to break rocks and dig earth, which they carried in baskets and dustbins to the shores of the Bohai Sea. The seven-year-old son of a widow named Jingcheng, one of the old man's neighbours, came running up to offer his help. One trip to the sea took them a long time: they left in winter and came back in summer.

The Wise Old Man at the River Bend stopped the old man. He laughed and said, "How unwise you are! At your age, old and feeble as you are, you cannot even remove one hair on the mountain, let alone so much earth and so many rocks!"

The Foolish Old Man of the North Mountain heaved a long sign and said, "You are so conceited that you are blind to reason. Even a widow and a child know better than you. When I die, there will be my sons, who will have their sons and grandsons. Those grandsons will have their sons and grandsons, and so on to infinity. But the mountains will not grow. Why is it impossible to level them?" The Wise Old Man at the River Bend could not answer him.

The Old Man's words were heard by a god with snakes in his hands. He was afraid that the old man would really level the two mountains, and reported the whole thing to the Heavenly God. Moved by the old man's determination, the Heavenly God ordered the two sons of Kua'ershi to carry the two mountains on their backs and put one east of Shuo and the other south of Yong. After this, there were no more mountains between Jizhou and the Han River.

Tell me , Ranglar, you think this guy is foolish, trying to remove a mountain when he is too weak to carry a stone?

More importantly, is he a J or P, does he need A PLAN to move the mountain.

 

[lane777]

drive, power, orderly, aggressive..... do they have anything to do with power.

if power is simply described as the "power is the ability (and to what degree) to bring about change" does any of the above have got to do anything with it. yes aggression would drive you, drive would make you more well planned. but does it have anything to do with POWER?

and by the way when it comes to organized ENTPs get the back seat. but when it comes to planning(scheming) we are second to none.

Referring to the bolded: Drive/ambition means you get things done, so it has everything to do with power.

So if you agree with this quote, Power is the ability (and to what degree) to bring about change, then I would have to ask you, what brings about change? Answer: Action. Here's another definition of power:

Ability to do or act; capability of doing or accomplishing something.

So, action = power. You can envison/plan all you want, but if you don't have action, all you're planning is useless. Anyways, I wasn't debating who's better at planning or scheming. What power depends on is the follow through of plans. And ENTJ's are known to be a personality of action. ENTP's are more associated with envisioning.

 

[yenom]

I entirely agree, setting up a mega goal, and J your way towards the goal. And while at it, believing you are invincible.

So, action = power. You can envison/plan all you want, but if you don't have action, all you're planning is useless. Anyways, I wasn't debating who's better at planning or scheming. What power depends on is the follow through of plans. And ENTJ's are known to be a personality of action. ENTP's are more associated with envisioning

Bullshit.

If a ENTJ wants a pawn, he can boss an INTP around, confusing us with INTPs are a big mistake.

Ever since when J is associated with action, and P is lack opf action?
If this is so, why are ESTPs called the doersw.

 

[lane777]

I entirely agree, setting up a mega goal, and J your way towards the goal. And while at it, believing you are invincible.

So, action = power. You can envison/plan all you want, but if you don't have action, all you're planning is useless.

Anyways, I wasn't debating who's better at planning or scheming. What power depends on is the follow through of plans. And ENTJ's are known to be a personality of action. ENTP's are more associated with envisioning

Bullshit.

If a ENTJ wants a pawn, he can boss an INTP around, confusing us with INTPs are a big mistake.

Ever since when J is associated with action, and P is lack opf action?
If this is so, why are ESTPs called the doersw.

I didn't confuse ENTP's with INTP's. And I never claimed J was solely responsible for action or that P was not. All the cognitive functions make up a type, including the shadow processes.

ESTP's... glad you brought them up. Because I think an ESTP would be a better challenger for the ENTJ.

 

[Frank]

I entirely agree, setting up a mega goal, and J your way towards the goal. And while at it, believing you are invincible.



Bullshit.

If a ENTJ wants a pawn, he can boss an INTP around, confusing us with INTPs are a big mistake.

Ever since when J is associated with action, and P is lack opf action?
If this is so, why are ESTPs called the doersw.

I think the difference is planned action versus action for actions sake. I'm not saying estps don't plan but I believe their plans are not as long term or as goal oriented. I have a buddy who is almost the stereotypical definition of an estp. He is a doer in every sense of the word. The main difference between us is that my actions are usually related to a bigger picture goal while he does just because he can. I usually work to hone skills for specific goals, while he is a natural at almost anything he picks up. He just has no plans for it's use. Makes me a little jealous actually.

 

[Rangler]

define doing something.
If my body is using energy, isn't it doing something?
my brain is using energy, isn't it doing?

Why do I need a plan and go J if I want to do something?

Infinity and time will eventually push me towards my goal, everyday I am making an effort to go there, what can stop me?

Pain, death , giving up? Not J enough?

What are you going on about?

Our body and brains are supplied energy though our physiological and subconscious processes. Anyway, I was referring to ENTPs, being both rational and non-committal, employing rationality to stay non-committal. Where an ENTJ employs rationality to seek commitments. I realize this is a broad generalization from the point of view of an ENTJ. Take it for what it is.

I have no idea about what point your trying to make with your story. It seems irrelevant to me.

 

[Rangler]

i can understand that

but you can't be a leader and not step on a few toes. so a manipulative ENTJ viewed as a leader comes across as a leader because the shrewdness associated with manipulations can be covered under the umbrella of leadership.

that will only work with people whom the ENTJ is leading. what happens when ENTJ tries this with a higher authority?

I agree your example is possible. There are many theories on leadership, not to mention good leaders and bad leaders.

My greatest understanding of good leadership came from reading the book "Good to Great", and the concept of Level 5 Leadership (servant leadership). By definition, I suspect ENTJs make exceptional Level 4 Leaders, but Level 5 seems out of our grasp. I would encourage anyone interested in leadership to read the book, or at least google the concept.

 

[Edgar]

I didn't confuse ENTP's with INTP's. And I never claimed J was solely responsible for action or that P was not. All the cognitive functions make up a type, including the shadow processes.

ESTP's... glad you brought them up. Because I think an ESTP would be a better challenger for the ENTJ.

That reminds me of my ramblings in a previous thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sp-arthouse/10580-female-estp-s.html#post402416

 

[ThatGirl]

ENTP

 

[yenom]

What are you going on about?

Our body and brains are supplied energy though our physiological and subconscious processes. Anyway, I was referring to ENTPs, being both rational and non-committal, employing rationality to stay non-committal. Where an ENTJ employs rationality to seek commitments. I realize this is a broad generalization from the point of view of an ENTJ. Take it for what it is.

I have no idea about what point your trying to make with your story. It seems irrelevant to me.

well, here you are kind of implying being P are lazy and stupid. Being a P will never get anything done and you need to be a J to accomplish things. Well, i am questioning you what is productive and what is not? Why do you think J are superior to Ps. You are also implying Ps would avoid doing anything and ENTJs are the only people putting their plans to action.

What is action then? Thats what I am asking you? As long as our body is using energy, it is taking action.

You can go guesss what the point of the story is. It has a double meaning.