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[ENTP] development of Fe in ENTPs

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Narcissitic personality disorder

DSM criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
 

Apollanaut

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INFJ
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I'm very well aware of feelings both mine and others thus me liking how Apollanaut described her husband.

Ahem. Despite my current Avatar I am very much a male! I'm gay, but not overtly so, though I like to think I'm in touch with my feminine side (hence the avatar, who represents my Anima). Sorry to confuse!

As a side note, god I'm a hypochondriac! I saw "flu" in "influence" and decided I was sick for real!

Oh, I've seen this many times in my ENTP. It's part-and-parcel of having inferior Si. You lot ignore your bodily signals for ages and ages, then suddenly get a headache and think it's a brain tumour, or develop a slight sniffle which must be the 'flu or worse. I know when it's happening to my SO 'cos he gets out a blood pressure cuff and starts obsessively measuring his blood pressure for the next hour or two!
 

Qre:us

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I think for me, my Fe development was a reactionary process. Throughout highschool, and beginning of university, I was a veritable prick (with a capital P). Or like my friends use to refer to it: OCS - Only Child Syndrome. And, then, in university, living in a dorm, for the first time having a roommate, and then, student housing (living with my best friends)....eye opener. Living with others (not parents who put up with a lot of my bs cuz they were my parents)...but, friends, having to navigate diplomatically, helped me tap into my Fe which had laid mostly dormant until that point.

Now, Fi, that is one that eludes me still. I am great at understanding other's motivations and feelings, but, when it comes to the realm of inter-personal, i.e., accounting for the I in a feeling exchange....is quite hard. I always seem to rationalize first.

Like I'll get a feeling of sadness, and rather than embrace that, the feeling of frustration/anxiety at 'why am I sad' overshadows the sadness itself....and I get lost within the loop of answering the why, and moving further and further away from the 'sadness' itself.

Or, if I can't still rationalize it away, I do the 'ostrich head in sand' technique...I ignore it because it's too convoluted to me, figuring out what I feel.

And, then, if it culmunates, I blow up in anger. My friends say that I only exhibit 5 feelings: meh, happy, excited, frustrated or angry.

The only way I tap into sadness, say, is if I watch a sad movie, or see a world event or see another's plith...i.e., channeled through Fe.

Only in extremes can I tap honestly into my Fi.... like a serious sickness in the family, where death was a distinct possibility...and even then my sadness gets overshadowed by anger. That time I kept up a stoic front in front of others and once away, and alone, I locked myself in my room and bawled my eyes out, until anger at my sadness inevitably took over, and I had destroyed/turned upside down all there was in my room. And, then, comes nonchalance. It's quite a battle, and one of my most active challenge, developing (healthy) Fi.

It's weird like being in a fog, sometimes. I KNOW what I'm supposed to feel/expected to feel in a given situation X, and it not coming frustrates me so that the frustration is more than the acceptance of the feeling. Like, I get frustrated not being able to show my Fi (when it's called for, like with the bf)...cuz I have a hazy feel of it, but, it's always on the periphery, and always just out of my grasp. Which creates a lot of tension because I'm charged with insensitivity (but, it's seriously not on purpose). I cheat sometimes, and actually get a script worked out of how I should feel/react in inter-personal matters through my F-friends. And, inevitably, some people catch on at the 'insincerity' of it all. Quite the issue.

I would love to know how ENTPs have developed Fi, actually (more than Fe). Esp. for ENTPs who score highly on T (like me).
 

Qre:us

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Oh, I've seen this many times in my ENTP. It's part-and-parcel of having inferior Si. You lot ignore your bodily signals for ages and ages, then suddenly get a headache and think it's a brain tumour, or develop a slight sniffle which must be the 'flu or worse. I know when it's happening to my SO 'cos he gets out a blood pressure cuff and starts obsessively measuring his blood pressure for the next hour or two!

My doc hates me for this very reason, because I will come with print-outs of my possible ailments/diagnosis or challenge his if I don't agree. He always says, 'Stop googling yourself!' :doh:

(although, often times, I ignore, or refuse to take meds/go to the doctors, until it becomes a necessary pain the butt, then, I go overboard, as above)
 

Qre:us

New member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
4,890
Narcissitic personality disorder

DSM criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[1]

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

A bit exaggerated...but, what the hell, I'll play:
1., 2., 3., 9. (4 outta 9 - missed by a hair's breadth, phew)
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
Now, Fi, that is one that eludes me still. I am great at understanding other's motivations and feelings, but, when it comes to the realm of inter-personal, i.e., accounting for the I in a feeling exchange....is quite hard. I always seem to rationalize first.

Have some intense, passionate sex with someone you are infatuated with. This is not hard.
 

Qre:us

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Nov 21, 2008
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Have some intense, passionate sex with someone you are infatuated with. This is not hard.

Sex does not equal love, doesn't matter how many chandeliers you can make unhinge from the ceiling.....

Infatuation? That's a strange term...as I've never been infatuated with a *person*...ever.

Love, I feel. Deeply too. But, it's a generalized feeling, not momentary...it is a persistent comfort. I feel it for quite a few people in my life. Including the bf.

With Fi, my issue is the acknowledgement of the nuances of feelings that a person can feel, within themselves, changing from moment to moment, that eludes me.
 

thisGuy

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Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,187
MBTI Type
entp
Like I'll get a feeling of sadness, and rather than embrace that, the feeling of frustration/anxiety at 'why am I sad' overshadows the sadness itself....and I get lost within the loop of answering the why, and moving further and further away from the 'sadness' itself.

The only way I tap into sadness, say, is if I watch a sad movie, or see a world event or see another's plith...i.e., channeled through Fe.

Only in extremes can I tap honestly into my Fi.... like a serious sickness in the family, where death was a distinct possibility...and even then my sadness gets overshadowed by anger. That time I kept up a stoic front in front of others and once away, and alone, I locked myself in my room and bawled my eyes out, until anger at my sadness inevitably took over, and I had destroyed/turned upside down all there was in my room. And, then, comes nonchalance. It's quite a battle, and one of my most active challenge, developing (healthy) Fi.

It's weird like being in a fog, sometimes. I KNOW what I'm supposed to feel/expected to feel in a given situation X, and it not coming frustrates me so that the frustration is more than the acceptance of the feeling. Like, I get frustrated not being able to show my Fi (when it's called for, like with the bf)...cuz I have a hazy feel of it, but, it's always on the periphery, and always just out of my grasp. Which creates a lot of tension because I'm charged with insensitivity (but, it's seriously not on purpose). I cheat sometimes, and actually get a script worked out of how I should feel/react in inter-personal matters through my F-friends. And, inevitably, some people catch on at the 'insincerity' of it all. Quite the issue.

thats me.

especially the part where confusion that ensues and i ask myself...'sooo....ummm...am i supposed to feel sad right now?' and then i end up coming across as the type thats got too much pride to show sadness in front of people (a real man's man YEA)....thank god for movies with proud male alpha that pulls through hard times and hold the feelings in or take up some introverted hobby like woodworking

but yeah, that Fi i used to have? poof

i did some test on some site (similarminds i think) a while back...it typed me as ENTP wanting to be ENFP...but my T and N and waaay to strong
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
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Aug 3, 2008
Messages
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well its the emotional bond and sex connection you feel that matters. Thats pretty much what fi means to me. As to reading other people's feelings , i think that is Fe, and everyone can fake this.
 

entropie

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Apollonauts description sounds more like an ESFJ to me. According to socionics it wouldnt be too far off to confuse an ESFJ for an ENTP.

But I dont know really, as long as you guys are happy, I am also :)

(I miss Jack) :D
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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*edits post*

Um... anyway. Back on topic. :D
 

sculpting

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A bit exaggerated...but, what the hell, I'll play:
1., 2., 3., 9. (4 outta 9 - missed by a hair's breadth, phew)

hehehe!:cheese:

We have started adding this scale to our pain in the ass coworkers:

Bob (3 of 9)

Tom (6 of 9)

SlimyENTP (9 of 9)
 

sculpting

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Now, Fi, that is one that eludes me still. I am great at understanding other's motivations and feelings, but, when it comes to the realm of inter-personal, i.e., accounting for the I in a feeling exchange....is quite hard. I always seem to rationalize first.



.

be glad, I am coming to think Fi really sucks. It is a giant weakness that just makes the world so irrational to live in. It's flippant and sort of useless honestly. I'd trade it for some good ol' fashion Ti anyday.
 

Apollanaut

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Apollonauts description sounds more like an ESFJ to me. According to socionics it wouldnt be too far off to confuse an ESFJ for an ENTP.

But I dont know really, as long as you guys are happy, I am also :)

(I miss Jack) :D

He is SO not an ESFJ! The behaviours I described were just to illustrate what he's like when using tertiary Fe. They pop up a few times a week at most.

The rest of of the time he's yer classic ENTP, constantly generating new ideas, exploring multiple options or analysing everything to death through his Ti microscope. He's always inventing some new evil scheme or devising imaginatively dangerous solutions to fix "problems", regardless of whether or not they actually need fixing. He has a huge sense of fun and can be very mischievious, he's an archetypal Trickster. He cannot resist meddling - he'd be the person most likely to push the big red button on an aircraft labelled "Do Not Press!".

He has little or no respect for pointless traditions, the worst thing you can say to him is "that's the way we've always done it" - it's an invitation to have your comfy little routines smashed into tiny pieces!

He is never, ever convinced by a Feeling argument - I've learned that if am to change his mind about something I have to resort to logic. Fortunately, my own Ti tertiary is quite well developed, but I have to be careful not to muddle my logic in the slightest. He can spot an error of logic from a thousand paces (he does this all the time as part of his job), and will be quite ruthless in demolishing a flawed argument. If he does this to me too often, my own Fe takes over and I start getting too upset or angry to use logic anymore. (We're used to each other now, so these spats are rarely serious and don't last long.)

One thing that does drive me nuts is the ENTP need to play Devil's Advocate all the time! My Fe seeks harmony and to achieve a general agreement, but as soon as it seems we've reached an accord, he'll switch sides and start arguing the opposite case, until I walk away in disgust. Even when he agrees with me, he still phrases it in a way which sounds like an argument.

I can say: "The weather will be nice today because there's a blue sky and no wind", only to have him reply: "No, it's the other way around: the blue sky and lack of wind mean the weather will be nice".

Grrrr! Arggh! :steam:
 

BlackCat

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be glad, I am coming to think Fi really sucks. It is a giant weakness that just makes the world so irrational to live in. It's flippant and sort of useless honestly. I'd trade it for some good ol' fashion Ti anyday.

Have fun with that. Getting in touch with your Fi should be a good priority, you will be surprised at how nice it is. How is it a weakness? You can know how other people feel and also know the reason you are feeling the way you do and how to fix it, isn't that a strength? It is for me.
 
Last edited:

Ardea

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1) When does this develop for you guys?

I've had it as long as I could remember. From birth...

2) Is it painful/difficult as it develops? (ie trusting others and so on..)

Yes. It's draining.

3) Do you use it on purpose to influence others or does it emerge on its own at times?

It's always kinda there, but you can fan the flames. It does often emerge on its own, but I've found that I can control it. Though, control isn't always the best solution.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
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Nov 20, 2008
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Have fun with that. Getting in touch with your Fi should be a good priority, you will be surprised at how nice it is. How is it a weakness? You can know how other people feel and also know how you feel, isn't that a strength? It is for me.

I don't really understand this. I know exactly how I feel. I'm not sure how you can't know how you feel. It tends to be right there on the surface, it's like reading a stock ticker for me. I don't necessarily think it's Fi related.
 
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