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[Ti] Is Ti egocentric?

sculpting

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I saw awhile back someone added this as a oneliner to a post. I am just starting to get how my Fi and another's Fi can differ in our idealistic values and cause conflict.

What about Ti? Can the logical path determined by one Ti end up not equating the the logical path determined by another Ti and thus end up in some sort of odd introverted conflict between two individuals?
 

Costrin

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I saw awhile back someone added this as a oneliner to a post. I am just starting to get how my Fi and another's Fi can differ in our idealistic values and cause conflict.

What about Ti? Can the logical path determined by one Ti end up not equating the the logical path determined by another Ti and thus end up in some sort of odd introverted conflict between two individuals?

Yes. Because each individual has different experiences and has accumulated different information, the Ti models of each will be different. This isn't as likely to spawn conflict though, as it is debate. Only if the two individuals disagree on foundational assumptions would there be likely to be conflict. The model is constantly up for renegotiation, but deeper assimilated information is harder to dislodge.
 

zarc

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Costrin said:
Yes. Because each individual has different experiences and has accumulated different information, the Ti models of each will be different.

In that same vein, whatever your dominant function is, it will be egocentric. It will always be horse to your chariot.
 

Costrin

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In that same vein, whatever your dominant function is, it will be egocentric. It will always be horse to your chariot.

Nah, it's the rider. The auxiliary is the horse, slave to the whims of the driver .And tertiary is the chariot, keeping you safe, and the ground is the inferior, that you navigate, yet disdain (hence the use of chariot) and hope you don't fall and hit your head on.

imo
 

sculpting

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Yes. Because each individual has different experiences and has accumulated different information, the Ti models of each will be different. This isn't as likely to spawn conflict though, as it is debate. Only if the two individuals disagree on foundational assumptions would there be likely to be conflict. The model is constantly up for renegotiation, but deeper assimilated information is harder to dislodge.

okay so what if you are a super insecure NTP? Then do you feel the need to trump other folks Ti? How does edcation level, status, academic credentials play into the "stability" of the foundation of deeper assimiliated knowledge?
 

nozflubber

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Ti cannot be "egocentric" because Ti has no Ego, lameass! Ego is a COMPOSITION of inputs (IE all functions) that yields your concious mind.

HOWEVER, I think I intuit what you meant to ask here and I reply as such: No, Ti is not selfish or single-minded.... Ti "just doesn't care" about self-sustainment or others, period. Ti is a "crosscheck" mechanism that yields either a "pass" or "fail" result in varying degrees, no special passes warranted.

What you describe isn't a Ti vs. Ti conflict, but a classic communication failure


This whole thread and others like it make me want to start my official "why I hate the cognitive functions" thread..... ppl just start attributing ANY FUCKING THING to some arbitrary I/E function.... it's bullshit
 

zarc

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Nah, it's the rider. The auxiliary is the horse, slave to the whims of the driver .And tertiary is the chariot, keeping you safe, and the ground is the inferior, that you navigate, yet disdain (hence the use of chariot) and hope you don't fall and hit your head on.

imo

I chose to further it over in your thread.

nozflubber said:
Ti cannot be "egocentric" because Ti has no Ego, lameass! Ego is a COMPOSITION of inputs (IE all functions) that yields your concious mind.

Yea, I've changed my mind. In great detail.
 

Totenkindly

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Yes. Because each individual has different experiences and has accumulated different information, the Ti models of each will be different. This isn't as likely to spawn conflict though, as it is debate. Only if the two individuals disagree on foundational assumptions would there be likely to be conflict. The model is constantly up for renegotiation, but deeper assimilated information is harder to dislodge.

In general, yes, that's the thing -- differences result from differences in initial assumptions and data input. The rational processes themselves use the same 'rules'... which is why this is Ti we are describing and not Fi.

okay so what if you are a super insecure NTP? Then do you feel the need to trump other folks Ti? How does edcation level, status, academic credentials play into the "stability" of the foundation of deeper assimiliated knowledge?

People who focus on Ti exclusively and who are weak in other areas (notably social functioning ones) will try to leverage their primary in order to gain social mobility and power. It usually becomes all about being validated by others for one's intelligence and rationality.

Other functions can provide more of a bridge in terms of helping one relate to other people in ways the majority can perceive and understand. And when one is secure with oneself and others, the need for validation goes away anyway.

Ti cannot be "egocentric" because Ti has no Ego, lameass! Ego is a COMPOSITION of inputs (IE all functions) that yields your concious mind.

"Lameass" is irrational. Apparently Ti can be muddied down by various flavors of invective that have nothing to do with the logic of the statements.

HOWEVER, I think I intuit what you meant to ask here and I reply as such: No, Ti is not selfish or single-minded.... Ti "just doesn't care" about self-sustainment or others, period. Ti is a "crosscheck" mechanism that yields either a "pass" or "fail" result in varying degrees, no special passes warranted.

i think you're failing to consider the notion of "will" and "ego" apart from function use.

The function is the tool.
The will is the directing force.

Now, I do agree that Ti in itself is what you've said it is: A crosscheck mechanism that flags data with probabilities of accuracy and then draws conclusions with those probabilities generated and attached.

This whole thread and others like it make me want to start my official "why I hate the cognitive functions" thread..... ppl just start attributing ANY FUCKING THING to some arbitrary I/E function.... it's bullshit

That's nice.

Tone it down, please.... or take it elsewhere.
 
G

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This whole thread and others like it make me want to start my official "why I hate the cognitive functions" thread..... ppl just start attributing ANY FUCKING THING to some arbitrary I/E function.... it's bullshit

I'm pretty sure that happy puppy is just curious about what could be a difference between Fi and Ti and not trying to state that Ti is inherently selfish :doh:
 

Apollanaut

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All conscious functions are linked to the Ego (the technical term is "ego-systonic"). For many people, only the dominant and auxiliary functions have become conscious, but it is possible for a well-developed type to raise functions 3 and 4 to consciousness as well.

The danger arises when the Ego becomes too invested in a function (usually the dominant). I've been guilty of this myself in the past, insisting that other people's understanding of a situation falls far short of my own Ni clarity of vision. I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas").

Although this can lead to conflict between dom-Ti types, it gets much nastier when egotistical Ti meets egotistical Ni. Ti keeps insisting on the "One And Only True Definition" while Ni counters with "All Definitions Are Completely Arbitrary" until it gets out of control and becomes personal. Then they start name-calling and abusing each other.

I'm not joking here, I've seen it happen both in real-life and on this (and other) forums.
 

sculpting

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Ti cannot be "egocentric" because Ti has no Ego, lameass! Ego is a COMPOSITION of inputs (IE all functions) that yields your concious mind.

HOWEVER, I think I intuit what you meant to ask here and I reply as such: No, Ti is not selfish or single-minded.... Ti "just doesn't care" about self-sustainment or others, period. Ti is a "crosscheck" mechanism that yields either a "pass" or "fail" result in varying degrees, no special passes warranted.

What you describe isn't a Ti vs. Ti conflict, but a classic communication failure


This whole thread and others like it make me want to start my official "why I hate the cognitive functions" thread..... ppl just start attributing ANY FUCKING THING to some arbitrary I/E function.... it's bullshit


sorry I did not mean to offend. I like Ti myself. (Can I be any more illogical? hehehe...) :wubbie:

I work with INTPs and ENTPs most of the time. Most are very functional and very awesome but some of them can appear very disjointed and ackward-like they can't quite coordinate thier NE-TI or TI-Ne abilities together very well.

Since I have been thinking a lot on Fi and how I interact with other Fis it seemed like an obvious question.

As for "egocentricity" that was a direct quote from an INTP on a thread somewhere, so I just used the same language.

I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.

I again saw this recently with an ENTP, and promptly slapped his ass down by telling him the above story.


Again my apologies as I am still new to "function" land and sometimes just probing seems the best way to learn. Want me to sing you "The Happy Function Song?" :hug:
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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I'm with nozflubber. "Ti" refers to a process of sorting information. That's it. There's 1) no ego involved and 2) there's nothing that WANTS anything, since it's just a process. It can't be egocentric because it can't WANT, by definition.
 

Apollanaut

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I'm with nozflubber. "Ti" refers to a process of sorting information. That's it. There's 1) no ego involved and 2) there's nothing that WANTS anything, since it's just a process. It can't be egocentric because it can't WANT, by definition.

You're right, Ti by itself is just a process. It's the Ego itself that can become over-inflated. The Ego is separate from the type functions, however it can become over-identified with them to the point where they become contaminated and distorted. Think of the sheer incongruity of people who become emotionally aroused when defending a supposedly non-emotional function like Ti.
 

Costrin

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Please don't make absurd metaphors.

Thanks in advance for your unconditional cooperation.

Nananana you can't make me!

I work with INTPs and ENTPs most of the time. Most are very functional and very awesome but some of them can appear very disjointed and ackward-like they can't quite coordinate thier NE-TI or TI-Ne abilities together very well.

[...]

I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.

Yeah. INTPs can get pretty stubborn sometimes. We can get attached to our models, and breaking them down and starting anew can be a difficult and time-consuming process.

Again my apologies as I am still new to "function" land and sometimes just probing seems the best way to learn. Want me to sing you "The Happy Function Song?" :hug:

Sure.
 

Apollanaut

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I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.

This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said:

"I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas")."

I've always worked in scientific laboratories, where I have had plenty of encounters with INTPs, both healthy and unhealthy. It's the unhealthy ones who can get so fixated on an idea that they pursue it beyond all reason, even when all the data and everyone else points out that they should give up and let go.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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You're right, Ti by itself is just a process. It's the Ego itself that can become over-inflated. The Ego is separate from the type functions, however it can become over-identified with them to the point where they become contaminated and distorted. Think of the sheer incongruity of people who become emotionally aroused when defending a supposedly non-emotional function like Ti.

Yeah, but that's a very different question, isn't it? That's asking whether people identify or are aroused when performing certain mental tasks.
 

SillySapienne

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Is Ti egocentric?

Um... :yes:

Lol, and to think, I actually *used* to firmly believe that there was no such thing as a stupid question, guess I was wrong.

:D
 

CJ99

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This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said:

"I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas")."

I've always worked in scientific laboratories, where I have had plenty of encounters with INTPs, both healthy and unhealthy. It's the unhealthy ones who can get so fixated on an idea that they pursue it beyond all reason, even when all the data and everyone else points out that they should give up and let go.

Aren't healthy INTPs supposed to be really open minded though?
And how about ENTPs do they suffer from the same problem?
 
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