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[NT] Question for NT Women - Are you a feminist?

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So racism is okay, but having a differing view of how to act respectfully towards women is not?

I feel very awkward hugging men. Am I being disrespectful towards men, for not hugging them as I would like to hug a female?

1) The Jew thing was obviously a satirical J-O-K-E.

2) No, because it is not in a professional context. That is in a personal context. If your job required that you hug people when you meet them, I think you would have grounds for quitting.
 

Habba

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1) The Jew thing was obviously a satirical J-O-K-E.

Of which is solely based on his race, thus being racist.

2) No, because it is not in a professional context. That is in a personal context. If your job required that you hug people when you meet them, I think you would have grounds for quitting.

And your job requires people to shake hands with each others?

Granted, I'm not saying he wasn't being a jerk for not trying to adjust himself with local habits, but being a jerk in return won't make it any better.
 
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Of which is solely based on his race, thus being racist.

And your job requires people to shake hands with each others?
1) Satire plays for irony. The irony of the racism is the foundation of the joke (also Jewishness is NOT a race, I am Chinese and my best friend is apparently Jewish).

2) Most jobs do require handshakes as a form of courtesy upon introduction, and mine does. Alternatively, I could kiss them on the lips with a little bit of tongue and a butt-squeeze. It's a personal choice.

Edited to add: I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain the joke when it's so obviously a joke.
 

Habba

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1) Satire plays for irony. The irony of the racism is the foundation of the joke (also Jewishness is NOT a race, I am Chinese and my best friend is apparently Jewish).

I admit I'm guilty of doing that kind of jokes all the time. :D So I understand what you mean.

2) Most jobs do require handshakes as a form of courtesy upon introduction, and mine does. Alternatively, I could kiss them on the lips with a little bit of tongue and a butt-squeeze. It's a personal choice.

Edited to add: I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain the joke when it's so obviously a joke.

Well, I have never saw a contract which explicitly demands colleagues to shake hands when introduced. It's a common courtesy in your culture, but not in his. He was trying to be courteous the way he thought would be the best, in this situation, respecting your zone of physical privacy.

All I'm trying to say here is that having a look from a reversed angle can explain a lot about other persons. Objectivity is a myth, there is no such thing.
 
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Well, I have never saw a contract which explicitly demands colleagues to shake hands when introduced. It's a common courtesy in your culture, but not in his. He was trying to be courteous the way he thought would be the best, in this situation, respecting your zone of physical privacy.

All I'm trying to say here is that having a look from a reversed angle can explain a lot about other persons. Objectivity is a myth, there is no such thing.
It's not common courtesy in my culture, which is Chinese. It is something that I adopted when I moved to Australia out of courtesy. Respecting the customs of the foreign nation that I'm in (e.g. taking my shoes off when I enter a mosque in Istanbul) is courtesy. Refusing to take off my shoes because I'm a taoist and don't believe in Islam is not. For the record, I'm not taoist or Buddhist. I'm just stating an example.

Courtesy and manners is being mindful of cultural norms and adjusting yourself to them even if they don't fit with what you're used to or what you believe in. This man was rude and sexist, cultural beliefs notwithstanding. Fact.

Edited to add: This has also gone too far off topic... So we should move back to NT women and their beliefs about feminism.
 

INTJMom

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I've noticed many of my NT female friends are self-proclaimed feminists. Just wondering if NT women are any more likely than women of other temperaments to be feminists or if it is just a trend amongst those I am familiar with.

Excuse me if this topic has been discussed before.
I'm not a feminist because feminism on the surface looks sensible enough but when I saw the details I found it distasteful.

Equal pay for equal work is the only thing I believe in.
 

Gamine

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When did feminism become such a dirty dirty word? It's about equality. I wish I could say "D'uh, I'm a woman, of course I want to be recognized as a full human being and not chattle" but there are women out there who mysteriously don't.

These are usually the same women who say things like "I don't see gender differences, I can have the same job, blah blah blah." and forget that they are part of the very very lucky 10% of women in the world who have these luxuries. But no, stay safe in your little bubble of ignorance, all the shallow insecure men won't like you if you care about being an equal.

Education, land ownership, health education, social status = The things you take for granted.
 

ajblaise

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The thing about feminism is that it's a part of leftism, sometimes far leftism. So on top of the negative connotations, there is the heavy association with left politics so any NT women who is a moderate or right-of-center might see a conflict before them, even if they agree with most feminist goals and achievements.

That is the reason why you won't see booyalab in this thread talking about how great the right to vote is...
 

edel weiss

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Is this your personal experience? Just curious. As for mine, my mom always tells my dad what to do. Ha ;)

:D No, not by personal experience. I'm lucky enough to live in an egalitarian family. But I've regularly seen other families where some form of this kind of sexism does take place.

I'm not going to extrapolate his jerkish behavior to something that may or may not have happened in his life. He was in Australia, a foreign country. He was there on a professional purpose. He should've adjusted, or at least made an effort.


Yes, his possible history cannot justify his behaviour, and he should definitely make an effort to adjust. Just that if you look at it in context, you could understand his behaviour while still not accepting it.

I'm not a feminist because feminism on the surface looks sensible enough but when I saw the details I found it distasteful.

Equal pay for equal work is the only thing I believe in.


What details did you find distasteful?
 
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Yes, his possible history cannot justify his behaviour, and he should definitely make an effort to adjust. Just that if you look at it in context, you could understand his behaviour while still not accepting it.
What made you think that I didn't understand his behavior? It's not difficult to figure out. I'm just not empathetic and don't believe in making excuses for him. I grew up around enough Chinese misogynistic bastards to understand them and simultaneously deem them irrelevant (which is exactly how I reacted to that Israeli guy).
 

Kangirl

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"White middle-class girls at the elite colleges and universities seem to want the world handed to them on a platter. They have been sheltered, coddled, and flattered. Having taught at a wide variety of institutions over my ill-starred career, I have observed that working-class or lower-middle-class girls, who are from financially struggling families and who must take a patchwork of menial off-campus jobs to stay in school, are usually the least hospitable to feminist rhetoric. They see life as it is and have fewer illusions about sex. It is affluent, upper-middle class students who most spout the party line - as if the grisly hyperemotionalism of feminist jargon satisfies their hunger for meaningful experience outside their eventless upbringing. In the absence of war, invent one."
--Camille Paglia

I love this quote and am definitely in the Camille Paglia mold of 'feminists'. I highly recommend her intro chapter in Sexual Personae if anyone is interested - it's a good summation of her take on things. And, to my mind, *highly* accurate.

The thing about feminism is that it's a part of leftism, sometimes far leftism. So on top of the negative connotations, there is the heavy association with left politics so any NT women who is a moderate or right-of-center might see a conflict before them, even if they agree with most feminist goals and achievements.

Great point and, for me, quite true.

When did feminism become such a dirty dirty word?

When a certain (formerly - yay!) powerful section of 'feminists' decided that any woman who didn't agree with their rigid ideology was stupid and/or brainwashed by men and/or self-hating. Way to totally invalidate the whole "women should get to make THEIR OWN choices' agenda!

The first group meeting I attended was built around the notion that men hate women. There was debate, but the group leaders were all of the belief that men, in general, hate women, and that women are too unaware of this. My problems began in that very first meeting when I rejected the idea that men hate women.
 

Rikka

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No. Fuck that. I'm pretty manly, which i think is common with many nt women (not suggesting we're butch or anything), and things like that don't affect me. They actually tend to piss me off; whenever i see some self righteous feminist i want to bash my own gender. Sometimes i do, just for the hell of it. I tend to not understand my own gender, and get along with males better. They make more sense to me. I find many women are very passive-aggresive, and it's a trait that makes me want to shake the person by the shoulders. Violently.
 

Not_Me

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The feminist label covers such as wide spectrum of ideology that it is beginning to lose meaning.
 

simulatedworld

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I love this quote and am definitely in the Camille Paglia mold of 'feminists'. I highly recommend her intro chapter in Sexual Personae if anyone is interested - it's a good summation of her take on things. And, to my mind, *highly* accurate.

Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I think Paglia is most probably ENTP. She loves blurring the line between polemic and straight rhetoric. It's pretty interesting.

Plus she and I have the same BIRTHDAY! Now that's significant.
 

Grungemouse

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Only if there's a misogynist present. When there's a feminist present I turn misogynistic.

I love winding people up. :D
 

Kangirl

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I'm reading this thread and taking names.

What for? The roster for your topless mud wrasslin' extravaganza? I'm in!
 

Nonsensical

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Feminism is a myth..like Global Warming!


..only kidding :D I support male/female equality 100%.
 
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