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[MBTI General] Hypothetical?? INFJ and ENTJ??

ReadingRainbows

Cat Wench
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Jan 28, 2009
Messages
1,885
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ENFJ
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6w7
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sx/sp
How might this work out? What are most if not all hypothetical situations this could lead too? Good, Bad??
What if the INFJ bordered on E and the E bordered on I...
come on tell me :D
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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...i have experience here...ill comment later...
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
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INTJ
Hypothetically?

You're gonna be s o h r r y.

ENXJ has tertiary Se. For them to feel good and right they have to scan the environment they are in and freely and fully take action according to impulse. And for ENTJ, impulse is provided by Te/Ni together with some Fi background noise.

Is there anything Fe can meaningfully interject in such a circumstance? Seriously? Fe is eighth in function order for an ENTJ. It's literally the last thing they listen to.

Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.
 

ReadingRainbows

Cat Wench
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sx/sp
Hypothetically?

You're gonna be s o h r r y.

ENXJ has tertiary Se. For them to feel good and right they have to scan the environment they are in and freely and fully take action according to impulse. And for ENTJ, impulse is provided by Te/Ni together with some Fi background noise.

Is there anything Fe can meaningfully interject in such a circumstance? Seriously? Fe is eighth in function order for an ENTJ. It's literally the last thing they listen to.

Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.

I've tested as an INTP too does that make a difference?
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
2,126
MBTI Type
INTJ
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1w9
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sp/sx
Hypothetically?

You're gonna be s o h r r y.

ENXJ has tertiary Se. For them to feel good and right they have to scan the environment they are in and freely and fully take action according to impulse. And for ENTJ, impulse is provided by Te/Ni together with some Fi background noise.

Is there anything Fe can meaningfully interject in such a circumstance? Seriously? Fe is eighth in function order for an ENTJ. It's literally the last thing they listen to.

Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.

as an ENTJ whose had a thing or two with INFJs, i completely disagree on Fe, but agree on Se

1. we dont listen to Fe in our normal everyday decision making, so if we had say an ESFJ mom, we'd clash our entire childhood and "hate Fe" like you say. If people were to use Fe in argument, we would also hate it. However, later in life, say we meet ENFJ or INFJ, we see this function that we have NO IDEA how to use, and we begin to see how well it works to have a TEAM MEMBER use that Fe FOR US. We become attracted to that Fe warmth, not because we want to use it ourselves, but because its this foreign, missing function that poses no threat to us, because we dont desire to use it ourselves. Completely different than an ESFJ trying to force us to use Fe OURSELVES. Do you see the difference? the NFJs for lack of a better term: cover our ass when we are making Fe fools of ourselves, and provide that warmth that NTJs generally learn to live without.

2. I do agree with you on the Se factor. Not to say INFJs lack Se use...no no no, INFJs can get bad Se with the best of the ESFPs (partying, sex etc). the real bad thing about INFJ Se, is that they become disconnected with reality. Not in the sense that theres an argument and they wont listen...no more like: they simply wont see the life the same way you do. Any relation, circumstance, symbol, etc will be accurately rooted out and defined by the ENTJ, while the INFJ will basically cast it into some idealized INFJ world view... it allows them to either irrationally blame themselves, or irrationally ignore when the blame IS actaully on them.

3. I think the main problem with the INFJ ENTJ is that the ENTJ is going to end up "dominating". You'll both like that at first... but then the ENTJ gets tired of not getting any challenge back, and the INFJ just grows accustomed to the ENTJ doing everything.

4. ENTJs need more of an equal when it comes to "desire to dominate" and the INFJs need more of a fantasy land. This is why ENTP INFJ works so well: the ENTP is never really aware that they are even with the INFJ, so the INFJ can basically cast what ever fantasy land projection they want onto it. Also the INFJ is the ENTP supervisor, so for once in their lives THEY come out of their shells and TRY.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
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Mar 14, 2008
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^ this ENTJ is gold
 

norepinephrine

New member
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Jun 10, 2008
Messages
402
MBTI Type
INTP
I've tested as an INTP too does that make a difference?

I get the idea you want to pursue this. So do it.

But gird your loins and don't try to consciously lean in one direction or another. Two of the things I appreciate about the ENTJ I know are:

1. His ability to ask an extremely blunt question and, essentially, expect and receive an extremely blunt (and honest) answer, and

2. His ability, given that honesty, to read my mind to a frightening degree.

But don't knock it until you try it.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Dec 3, 2008
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INTJ
as an ENTJ whose had a thing or two with INFJs, i completely disagree on Fe, but agree on Se

1. we dont listen to Fe in our normal everyday decision making, so if we had say an ESFJ mom, we'd clash our entire childhood and "hate Fe" like you say. If people were to use Fe in argument, we would also hate it. However, later in life, say we meet ENFJ or INFJ, we see this function that we have NO IDEA how to use, and we begin to see how well it works to have a TEAM MEMBER use that Fe FOR US. We become attracted to that Fe warmth, not because we want to use it ourselves, but because its this foreign, missing function that poses no threat to us, because we dont desire to use it ourselves. Completely different than an ESFJ trying to force us to use Fe OURSELVES. Do you see the difference? the NFJs for lack of a better term: cover our ass when we are making Fe fools of ourselves, and provide that warmth that NTJs generally learn to live without.

Not sure what's wrong with this argument, but something is. Oh wait, yes, an NFJ is a useful team member... yeah, they are, and they're also a usurping team member, because they have and will make Fe decisions about what to do and how to act and where things should go.

This would be where it's useful as team leader and ENTJ to simply not hear Fe values. You don't have to do anything the NFJs say, but they're good for rounding up other people. Except that the other people will have been primed in an Fe way.... the NFJ will see her good work get turned into something different when the NTJ takes over.

2. I do agree with you on the Se factor. Not to say INFJs lack Se use...no no no, INFJs can get bad Se with the best of the ESFPs (partying, sex etc). the real bad thing about INFJ Se, is that they become disconnected with reality.

Yeah, big time disconnect from Te-reality. But by definition of INFJ, they are the deepest of Fe-reality seekers. Seers, truth-seekers, innovators... of the Fe world. Way totally looks like a fantasy world, this Fe world, but it isn't.

I have an INFJ buddy, and she's great. Interacting with her I realised suddenly one day that whenever she says something, especially if it's some personal problem thing, I have practical solutions ready for her. If she says she still feels sad about her INFP ex, I tell her get some sleep, eat some nice food, let time pass. All of which probably does next to nothing whatsoever to address the particular Fe move of reaching out to say something to me.



And to make you feel a little better, it's not just being ENTJ that makes this stuff happen. For example, ENFJs do it to INTJs too. I've had ENFJs tell me I'm useful to them too, and they blithely go on about their world-dominating ways with nary a use of any useful utility using things I launched at them. I supposes all ESJs do it to all ISJs too when one is T and the other F.
 

verdeviola

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Sep 22, 2009
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Is there any ENTJ who is in a relationship with an INFJ (or an INFJ in a relationship with a ENTJ)? I would really like to hear your experiences/opinions with/on this match and to know if it really is such a rare one!
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
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How might this work out? What are most if not all hypothetical situations this could lead too? Good, Bad??
What if the INFJ bordered on E and the E bordered on I...
come on tell me :D

I'm a borderline E/I, and I have contemplated how the combo would work irl.

I think good things would be possible, as long as the INFJ didnt become a satellite orbiting the ENTJ.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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May 31, 2009
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I think the ENTJ would rarely be open to being influenced by the INFJ, which the INFJ would come to resent. The ENTJ definitely will dominate and while both will enjoy it for awhile, it will get old before too too long. Especially once the INFJ comes out and starts trying to change the dynamics of the relationship and the ENTJ digs in their heels.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I think the ENTJ would rarely be open to being influenced by the INFJ, which the INFJ would come to resent. The ENTJ definitely will dominate and while both will enjoy it for awhile, it will get old before too too long. Especially once the INFJ comes out and starts trying to change the dynamics of the relationship and the ENTJ digs in their heels.

Maybe there is a contextual purpose for the digging in of heels that, while benefiting both, could only be accepted (read understood) by the ENTJ.
 

Frank

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Mar 13, 2008
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I was in a four month relationship with an INFJ. She was literally the first "fling" after an 11 year relationship so it was doomed either way. The only area we really did not get along was the Te-Fe divide. She would do things that would drive me crazy. She would have some irrational ideal about taking care of something, mainly animals and "injured" people. I'm pretty sure I was an "injured" person to her. It seemed the more independent of her care that I became, the more friction there was between us. I'm sure I drove her crazy too. Other than that though she was like a breath of fresh air compared to the 11 year relationship. Things were pretty good when we were in sync.
 

theplacesyoullgo

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Nov 27, 2008
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I can really only comment on this in regards to friendship rather than a romantic relationship. It looks like the people on this thread have largely had bad experiences in INFJ/ENTJ relationships, but I'd say go for it! My INFJ friend (who actually posts here on occasion) and I get along very well. I used to be a lot more rigid and neurotic than I am now, and I think she was a great balancing force then. I think she still subconsciously helps me reign in my excessively judgmental side. I'm obviously speaking for myself, but I can't relate to what fidelia said about the ENTJ trying to dominate the relationship. I don't really have any desire to control the relationship at all. Maybe that would be more of a factor in a romantic relationship - I don't know.
 

verdeviola

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Sep 22, 2009
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Me and my ENTJ have been staying together for 7 years. We get along well and I am not the type of girl who can become a satellite! Although I am sweet and gentle, I also am a very independent person and I like his strong character. I didn't think it was such a hard-to-find match! :shock:
In my opinion it can be really satisfaying!
What do you think? Anyone else who has had this experience?
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
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Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.

I was married to an ENTJ for five years. I agree with this^. I'm not saying it's prolly true for every ENTJ/INFJ, but it was true for me. The first couple of years were pretty good, but aggravation with his Fe blindspot got to be too much. This line (from lyrics to a song I can't remember the name of) sums up what it felt like to talk to him about anything outside of home or car repair: "...[he] just looked at me, uncomprehendingly, like cows at a passing train." Whenever I tried explaining how something he did was disrespectful he'd go into- what my son (also his) and I now refer to as- caveman mode. He gets baffled and frustrated, and kinda acts like those monkeys gathered around the black slab in 2001 Space Odyssey. I suspect it’s akin to what I feel when someone lectures me about the importance of cleaning the cat litter every day (i.e. “this again? How could this possibly be so important to you?).

He's a good person; he's honest, believes that 'caveman mode' is every bit as frustrating as people tell him it is and doesn't like that he inadvertently bulldozes people. He actually liked having someone around to call him on his bulldozing- whether it was me he was bulldozing, other family members or people at work- because I did it calmly and rationally. I could anticipate how things would make him feel, and frame what I had to say in such a way that my feedback was rational and constructive- instead of sprinkling it with insults, as if he ‘should have known better’. It's just that I don't think he even began to realize how much effort I had to put into phrasing things calmly and rationally enough for him to hear them. All the energy I put into understanding his point of view- to say things in a way that represented his interests, rather than simply nagging- seemed to fly completely under his radar: so he couldn’t appreciate it. On top of that, I'd have to calm myself down after things he'd say to me because he didn't put a modicum of effort in anticipating how anything would make me feel. I ended the marriage when it became clear that- no matter how hard I tried explaining it- returning that effort would never be one of his priorities; staying meant being the only one pouring energy into keeping the peace and having that effort go largely unacknowledged.

3. I think the main problem with the INFJ ENTJ is that the ENTJ is going to end up "dominating". You'll both like that at first... but then the ENTJ gets tired of not getting any challenge back, and the INFJ just grows accustomed to the ENTJ doing everything.

He wanted to stay together, the relationship worked out pretty well for him. So this^ definitely wasn't true in my case.

And I never liked the ‘dominating’ aspect per se; I liked the straightforwardness. I think I got together with him in the first place- because he was honest and incredibly rational- but also because he wasn’t passive. If there was something he wanted, he went ahead and acted on it. There’s something comforting about the idea of never having to worry about that invisible game of give-and-take, because it’s draining to feel like you need to read someone’s mind in order to be fair with them. But, I don’t know, after reality creeps in- revealing how no two people will ever actually be so perfect for each other that there isn’t some invisible game of give-and-take lurking in the background- the experience of being with someone who doesn’t hesitate in taking what they want loses its appeal.
 

verdeviola

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Sep 22, 2009
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22
I see... I had to learn to talk to him in a certain way so that he could "understand". I used to drive him mad because, as when i talk to him I feel "safe", my thoughts and feelings are random, unstructured and intricate (dominant Ni...:doh:).
But he has done his part. He has learnt to be more caring, spontaneous and sweet and to open up to me, so we have "adjusted" well.

Any other experience?
 

shadesofblue

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Mar 17, 2010
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2
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INFJ
I was involved with an ENTJ once, and it was one of my worst dating experiences. Essentially, I gave him as much space as the Western US and all he did was constantly try to change me to fit his ideal. He thought he was pretty awesome stuff and made me feel horrible about myself.

Now, that's not to say that my experience exemplifies all INFJ/ENTJ interactions. However, it has left me a little wary of ever becoming involved with similar individuals.
 
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