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[MBTI General] Hypothetical?? INFJ and ENTJ??

murkrow

Branded with Satan
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
1,635
MBTI Type
INTJ
Lol.

this is always a funny one because of how amazingly different the perspectives are.

anyway I did a bunch of years with an INFJ, it was great and it was terrible.

Be honest about everything, little lies killed us.
 

wandering_soul

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
1
MBTI Type
INFJ
I've been married to an ENTJ for 4 years. The first two years were tumultuous. His Te and my Fe clashed in most of our interactions. I was 19 when I married him (he is also 12 years my senior) so my lacking emotional/psychological maturity (I used Fe recklessly) coupled with his inexperience ever dealing with Fe caused for much marital problems. He valued independence and provided me with all the means necessary to "live my life" (paid my education, provided me with a car, etc) and allow him to live his (studying CMA, CPA, etc). Where I wanted to "bond" and experience these deep and fantastic moments of affection, he wanted to schedule the next days events or talk about a problem needing solving (he ALWAYS had the answer but just needed a sounding board). Although he listens to my ideas and ways of solving problems, he always has a much more efficient way even if it is at the expense of the people around him. This bothered me a great deal because I value harmony in our relationships with family and friends. We would often fight about how he would bulldozer anyone who stood against him or his ideas. He never realized how blunt he actually was until I played it back for him explaining how others perceived/felt it.

I also felt quite lonely. I wanted to have the "soulmate" experience with him whereas he wold prefer discussing a business topic or even arguing for the heck of it. He is much more knowledgeable than I am, especially in the fields of his interests, and I would always be outdone and feeling stupid or inadequate.

We disagree on how to discipline the children (we have two girls ages 4 months and 3.5 years). Our eldest is a real rambunctious extravert who never stops talking or jumping for even a minute. This drives him mad. His temper flares up and I often have to step in to prevent him from spanking the child for just "being herself". I can see how the effects of his temper will cause problems for our children in the future, but he is more concerned about extinguishing the behaviour immediately. However, if I sit down with him when he is cool, I'll explain in the most logical way possible, how A causes B and it's probably not the best for our kids. He mostly always agreed with me after the fact, but goes back to his old patterns when the moment arises (my daughter pisses him off again). If I even dare to use my Fe to convince him, it usually ends in an argument. "She is only a baby" or "I hate hearing shouting at this time of night!" gets nowhere with him. I have to use a lot of energy to talk to him in his psychological language... yet he seldom attempts to accommodate my preferences.

His career is at the forefront. We move around the world so he can climb the corporate ladder. He loves his family, and I know he appreciates me (a year ago he told me he likes how I am a great mother to his kids and I cover his blind spots when he deals with his family/friends) so as long as the family unit is intact and working somewhat effeciently (house is clean, supper ready at same time every day, he gets his nap, study/work time, and scheduled weekly visits to his relatives) then he is happy.

There are quite a few benefits to being married to an ENTJ:
-He is loyal and committed to providing for his family.
-He is efficient, determined, and a hard worker. He will never settle for a mediocre position or career.
-His personality balances mine and prevents me from staying too long in my ivory tower.
-He brings out my potential.
-His career satisfies many of his "needs" so as long as I take care of the home and kids, he is a contented man.
-He always has a practical solution to my problems.
-He deals with all the technicalities of home life (finances, repairs, etc).

The past two years have been good. I've learned to speak logically to him and use my Fe in a tactical way. He has also tried to please me in little ways: calling me to check up on me during the day (although he knows I am alright), smiling to me from across the room, or saying how delicious the food is (although it surely sucks).

He appreciates that I don't love him for his money or status. This is in stark contrast to the materialistic women surrounding him at work and even in his family.

I've reframed what "being loved" means. I now know not to expect flowers or small gifts on special occasions. It's not his thing... but he shows his love in his way. Luckily I can feel satisfied with that.

Honestly, I wanted to bail out during our first few years. (We were married after 2 months of "getting to know each other"). Getting pregnant forced me to stay, and I'm glad I did. With a bit of effort and a lot of understanding, this combination can work. Obviously the INFJ is going to have to adapt to the ENTJ more than vis-versa...

There isn't much "chemisty" between us, but the relationship somehow works on a practical level. We have our moments of passion and mutual understanding... but it isn't the norm. I am a great supporter for him, I'll follow him anywhere all the while doing my own thing (studying to become a counsellor --I know, surprising!---). This works for us.

Also, my random and somewhat unstructured thought process drives him mad.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
.
 
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Random Ness

New member
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
270
"wandering soul" you are fabulous for typing up your experience in being with an ENTJ in such detail! It's interesting to hear you can work it out--you just have to be prepared to adapt to it.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

Guest
I know 2 INFJ's. and just based on their behavior, I can barely stand being friends. ><
THEY( the 2 friends) are way too whimsical, and "deep" for my liking.
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

Guest
If you can't stand them it probably isn't healthy for you to pretend to be friends with them. :(

well they're great people, but at times I want to choke the living rainbow colored rays of sunshine that comes out of their day-dreamy face( I'm sure they want to do this to me at times as well) . and they know this :D
I never need to pretend to like someone. People know where they stand with me :)
 

eclare

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
139
MBTI Type
INFJ
Hypothetically?



ENXJ has tertiary Se. For them to feel good and right they have to scan the environment they are in and freely and fully take action according to impulse. And for ENTJ, impulse is provided by Te/Ni together with some Fi background noise.

Is there anything Fe can meaningfully interject in such a circumstance? Seriously? Fe is eighth in function order for an ENTJ. It's literally the last thing they listen to.

Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.

This is obviously from a very long time ago, but reading it now has raised a question that has been bugging me for awhile now, and I figured this would be a good place to get some input.

I'm having a really hard time understanding why there is such a disconnect between Fe and Te, especially when Te is used in conjunction with Ni. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how the functions work, but in my mind it seems that if a person can learn and understand the basic principles of psychology and human development there's no reason why she or she couldn't use Te in a way that starts to look an awful lot like Fe.

From my perspective, Fe works in two largely unconscious steps: first you identify the emotional climate (in either a group or an individual), then you take action designed to maximize positive feelings. Maybe I'm an atypical INFJ, but from my perspective making people happy and focusing on their feelings isn't just the end-goal. The ultimate goal is to keep things moving forward as efficiently as possible. From a purely utilitarian perspective, emotional discordance and conflict during the production process has a negative impact on the end result.

That's why I'm always so baffled when people talk about INFJ as being irrational and dreamy. Fe is inherently pragmatic and is based on a rational understanding of human behavior. It may be more difficult for a Te user to grasp the principles of human behavior and may require the ability to juggle a lot more variables, but for the most part people tend to act in predictable patterns and once you have a basic understanding of what motivates an individual you can make a logical assumption about how they are likely to act and react in a given situation. Once you can learn to identify and manipulate that (and I don't mean manipulate in the nefarious sense) aren't you basically engaging in the same process?

So what am I missing here? Why is there such a hard divide?
 

Ltravi7

New member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
7
MBTI Type
INJF
Eclare I totally agree with you. I'm an ENFJ but wouldn't say i'm whimsical I definitely understand people, there motives and what pleases them and there adjust my behavior to get the desirable outcome. I am hyper pragmatic and rational.
 

mrcockburn

Aquaria
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
1,896
MBTI Type
¥¤
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
You know, last week I would've jumped in and said "ENTJ + INFJ, 100%!!"

But he's beginning to annoy me. He has no backbone at all in life, and relies on me for EVERYTHING, including emotional support. At first, I kind of enjoyed being a hero/catalyst for improvement in his life, but now it's getting ridiculous. He's not doing anything for himself and continues to cry to me.

When I gently request that he not rely on me to solve his problems, he sulks about my "heartlessness". :thelook:

If he doesn't shape up within two weeks, I'm poised to drop him.
 

mrcockburn

Aquaria
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
1,896
MBTI Type
¥¤
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Also, he's very needy and dependent. He's 21 and still lives with his parents, CANNOT drive or pass the road test, works at his mother's convenience store (never had/sought another job)...

I tried teaching him to drive...not pretty. It ended up in (his) tears. :rolli:
 

sulfit

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
495
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
ENTJ-INFJ are relations of Supervision where ENTJ plays role of Supervisor and INFJ plays the role of Supervisee. This is why ENTJ will dominate these relations. Marriages of this kind often turn into Pygmalion projects where ENTJ trying to change the INFJ by inserting more Te into INFJ's life. The INFJ, however, does not need Te and such attempts will be perceived as painful criticisms. Supervision relations are more uncomfortable and tiring for the Supervisee (INFJ in this case). INFJ will find that he/she constantly has to re-adjust to ENTJ's demands and ENTJ's demands will never cease as ENTJ will always see INFJ lacking in Te which ENTJ will be trying to provide.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27528

Supervision is an asymmetric relation (like relations of benefit) in which one partner, the Supervisor (ENTJ), is in a more powerful position psychologically than the other, the Supervisee (INFJ). This is due to the correlation of partners' functions, which allows the Supervisor to put more psychological pressure on the Supervisee through his leading function (Te) than vice versa. Typically, the supervisee feels somewhat wary or careful about his words when approaching a supervisor. This innate wariness can develop into a full-fledged supervision "syndrome" if given the right conditions, or it can remain at a manageable level if neither person is in a position of power over the other, and partners do not overstep the natural bounds of the relationship.

Common ground between supervision partners is usually attained by the Supervisor's creative function (Ni for ENTJs) resonating with the leading function of the supervisee (Ni for INFJs). The attitudes expressed as absolute values by the supervisee are worthwhile to the supervisor, but are seen as a by-product of more important pursuits. Common ground can also be reached through the suggestive function of the supervisee (Se), which is the valued mobilizing function of the supervisor. However, both are weak in this area and tend to only discuss their pursuits rather than actually doing them together.

The supervisor is usually interested in what the supervisee does and says, but at the same time feels like it is often in need of modification or reformulation from the point of view of his leading function. Because this reframing of issues corresponds to their vulnerable function, the supervisee may often feel frustrated with the supervisor's statements. If the supervisee begins to argue with the supervisor, the differences of viewpoint may quickly become more personal when the supervisor points out perceived 'flaws' in the supervisee's thinking style or way of doing things. Such comments are usually not intended to be damning criticism from the supervisor's point of view, but may well be interpreted as such by the supervisee, due to the inherent sensitivity of the vulnerable function. If they live together, the supervisee may find he can never live up to the supervisor's expectations or achieve his genuine appreciation. For a working relationship or friendship to work, the supervisor must exercise discipline and avoid commenting on the supervisee's weak points as he sees them.

Though the supervisee's discomfort can become quite intense, it is often not evident at first glance. He will usually only talk about it with closer friends, finding it difficult to express to the supervisor without sounding childish. To the supervisor it will appear that the supervisee is overreacting. In the romantic sphere, the supervisor often finds the supervisee's use of his demonstrative function alluring, but will ultimately be unsatisfied with its sporadic nature. The supervisee in turn sees the supervisor as an admirable but somewhat bewildering persona.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I had a several year, on-again-off-again thing with an INFJ guy not too long ago. He was a wonderful guy: handsome, driven, sensitive, philosophical. He told me he wanted to marry me once. I cared about him a lot, but I never felt I could truly be myself around him. I'm kinda rough around the edges, and I think he liked the idea of it more than the reality. For my part, I felt I constantly let him down. We'd have these odd subtext-laden, "symbolic" conversations that would on the surface be about something simple, but really weren't in actuality. I hated that. I would purposefully ignore the "real" question I was being asked because I couldn't stand the feeling I was being manipulated into revealing something, or reassuring him of something, or whatever. Overall, the relationship was stressful and unsatisfying for us both. I wouldn't do it again.
 
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