[NT] Would you try to date me?

[Virtual ghost]

I definitely agree that I missed the mark for various reasons, but we'll get to that in a second.

I wonder two things, and feel free to shoot them down or ignore them if theyre too personal. First, have you been involved with many women in the past? Second, reading some of your earlier posts you mentioned that you feel you'd be ideally suited to an ExTJ woman. Why do you believe this and what are your aspirations for a relationship with this type of woman?

The reason why I have started this thread in the first place is because my love life can be described by pure 0. Since I have 0 crushes/relationships behind me. Even stuff like kisses and touches are at 0 in my case.
So everything I say take with a reserve, There is nothing really wrong with me, it is just that I didn't pay any attention to this sphere of life.



The main reason why I said that I could get along with ExTJ women is because society over here is chaotic. So there would a natural attraction between us. At least on a friendship level.
The entire thing comes down to the fact that you have unspontaneous and calculated partner. Which means that you can be yourself in most cases without choking your partner.
But I don't consider myself to be ideal for ExTJ women. Especially if ESTJ has a developed S.


I did some analysing and I have concluded that best match for me are ENs. As I already said in the thread. But ENFs will need to have a balanced F if this is going to work.


The reason why I say ENs is because I need an extrovert. Since extroverts needs energy from the outside for the most part. While I am very introverted and socially inert, but because od very well developed NTJ part I don't have social phobias that are typical for strong introverts. Neither I feel really drained by other people. I am simply not interested in them for the most part.
So an extrovert will be good since it will pull me out more then I would do so naturally. Plus shaing a N will be really good for the communication.


So as you can see ENTJ has the qualities of both groups. Plus one test that was going around said that I should try to date ENTJs. What to some degree makes sense to me. But I presume that it would be easier for me to get along with an ENTP.



I am talking purely from theoretical perspective since I understand that we are all just individuals.

 

[jenocyde]

But I presume that it would be easier for me to get along with an ENTP.

Yeah, everybody loves us, and can you blame them?

Of course I'm joking, but you may not be too far off in your assessment. If you speak any bit like how you write, you may drive an ENTJ up the wall with your non expressiveness, but you will always be a source of endless wonder, curiosity and fascination to people of the ENTP persuasion. (Of course, this is all just theory - find someone you like, who likes you back. Worry about type later...)

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yeah, everybody loves us, and can you blame them?

Of course I'm joking, but you may not be too far off in your assessment. If you speak any bit like how you write, you may drive an ENTJ up the wall with your non expressiveness, but you will always be a source of endless wonder, curiosity and fascination to people of the ENTP persuasion. (Of course, this is all just theory - find someone you like, who likes you back. Worry about type later...)

To be honest I am not sure why I would drive ENTJ up to the wall.
But to me it looks like that it will be much easier to create a balance of strenghts with an ENTP. Especially since P/J differences could actually be entertaining. I don't know why but that is how it looks to me.


If you don't mind can you explain your problem with Te in short ?

 

[jenocyde]

To be honest I am not sure why I would drive ENTJ up to the wall.
But to me it looks like that it will be much easier to create a balance of strenghts with an ENTP. Especially since P/J differences could actually be entertaining. I don't know why but that is how it looks to me.


If you don't mind can you explain your problem with Te in short ?

I understand and agree with your conclusion. I recently decided that I ridiculously love INTPs with a passion, but am probably better suited with an INTJ. I can see how this pairing would make sense.

I don't like Te because I find it bossy, controlling and authoritarian. While working, I am in super Te overload mode. I have to be in complete control of my staff and my businesses because they are mine and no one will ever put as much effort in as me. And people waste my time and resources, so I am always scanning my environment and cutting the fat, so to speak. I fired 3 people in the past 2 weeks.

Outside of work, I don't see the need for efficiency, unless there is a logical need for it. And there rarely ever is. When I am at home, all I want to do is what I want to do. I want to go where the wind takes me, I don't want to think about groceries, cleaning, organizing. I seriously don't. I hire a crazy amount of people to take care of my personal stuff because I simply can't be bothered. I have people who shop for my clothes, and people who shop for my groceries. I have people clean for me, I have people to remind me of my social appointments and make sure my bills are paid. But at work, I overlook nothing - and that drains me because that is not my natural state.

And I abhor when Te people try to control me and organize me. It will never happen. I would sooner die than give up my freedom. I wouldn't last one day in prison, I know this for certain. But I think the INTJ way of Te is more palatable in my personal life than the ExTJ way. And truth be told, I could use a bit more discipline in my personal life - just not to the levels of ExTJ controlling though.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I understand and agree with your conclusion. I recently decided that I ridiculously love INTPs with a passion, but am probably better suited with an INTJ. I can see how this pairing would make sense.

I don't like Te because I find it bossy, controlling and authoritarian. While working, I am in super Te overload mode. I have to be in complete control of my staff and my businesses because they are mine and no one will ever put as much effort in as me. And people waste my time and resources, so I am always scanning my environment and cutting the fat, so to speak. I fired 3 people in the past 2 weeks.

Outside of work, I don't see the need for efficiency, unless there is a logical need for it. And there rarely ever is. When I am at home, all I want to do is what I want to do. I want to go where the wind takes me, I don't want to think about groceries, cleaning, organizing. I seriously don't. I hire a crazy amount of people to take care of my personal stuff because I simply can't be bothered. I have people who shop for my clothes, and people who shop for my groceries. I have people clean for me, I have people to remind me of my social appointments and make sure my bills are paid. But at work, I overlook nothing - and that drains me because that is not my natural state.

And I abhor when Te people try to control me and organize me. It will never happen. I would sooner die than give up my freedom. I wouldn't last one day in prison, I know this for certain. But I think the INTJ way of Te is more palatable in my personal life than the ExTJ way. And truth be told, I could use a bit more discipline in my personal life - just not to the levels of ExTJ controlling though.

I was thinking you will say that. You don't like it mostly because you have to use it when you don't want to.

But to be honest I think your are making one mistake here. Which is that you link Te with groceries and being bossy. What for the most part is true. But the trick is that Te is just a process that takes a shape of things with which you are feeding it.


I have a very developed Te but I am not obssesed with groceries and similar details like that at all. But I find it useful in my life. For exmple if you doing something in a lab you will need Te since many things you need to do are complicated. But by doing them you entertain yourself in a way because you are exploring and researching. Since no one ever came to the information you did.



I plan to be geologist one day. However in this job Te can be very important.
If nothing you have smaller chances to get killed.
But here Te does not work/operate with people and everyday details.


Be honest with me, would you like to walk around not too high and not too dangerous mountain in a search for a path that will be the best for a future road and you have to mark all potentional major obstacle. Like marking certain rocks that need to be blown up with explosives in order to remove them as an obsticle.

Actually it does not matter if you would this or not. The point I am trying to show is that Te can be much more creative and playful function then people think it can be.

 

[jenocyde]

I think Te can be playful but I don't know how to make it playful, which is why I admire the INTJ way. Your explanation alone made me feel lighter about it. It's good that you understood what I meant.

I don't like having to use it, and I don't like when people use it on me. To be told how to do things is not fun for me.

But you are absolutely correct that it is important. I would never have gotten so far in life if I didn't cultivate my Te. I still sometimes slip up, but for the most part, I am an organizational wizard. It's hard for me to make sure things remain organized, though.

When I used to work in clinical research, I found a very good balance between Ti exploration and analysis, along with Te research and testing methods. And I actually loved it. I just don't love using it when I don't have to.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think Te can be playful but I don't know how to make it playful, which is why I admire the INTJ way. Your explanation alone made me feel lighter about it. It's good that you understood what I meant.

I don't like having to use it, and I don't like when people use it on me. To be told how to do things is not fun for me.

But you are absolutely correct that it is important. I would never have gotten so far in life if I didn't cultivate my Te. I still sometimes slip up, but for the most part, I am an organizational wizard. It's hard for me to make sure things remain organized, though.

When I used to work in clinical research, I found a very good balance between Ti exploration and analysis, along with Te research and testing methods. And I actually loved it. I just don't love using it when I don't have to.

Once again I can't say I am suprised. The thing is that I can consider things you consider negative about Te as playful. The main reason why I like games that need planning is because I can simply let my NTJ side from the leash without hurting anyone or making a fatal mistake.


Since I live in disorganized society no one ever trully forced me to use Te.
For my whole life I for the most part don't exactly know what is going to happen just a few day in advance or I have scenarios with multiple possible outcomes. Since no one makes real plans or they are simply changing them all the time. Which means that my Te is not that much useful. (at least not before you become fully independent person by ending your education)
But since I can't use it fully I use it for entertainment in order to use it. Which is my natural need.

Here is the newest example: The most powerful function in my country is prime minister. But a few days ago the prime minister that was on the function for 6 years and he had a fairly good popularity has just called a press conference and said " I quit !". He didn't even give an explanation why he did what he did.

I mean, what would happen in the case that Obama does something like this? Over here no one will get excited about this at all in a less then two weeks.



So in order to adapt I have develop Ti and Ne so that I can compensate for my defect. Which is that I am not really compatibile with logic of my environment.
That is how I ended with combination Ni,Te,Ti,Ne in the first place. (I presume)

If you take a closer look you will see that my life philosophy is clearly J but I have learned to look at things from P perspective as well in order to succeed.
The only problem is that I don't have much space left for things like feelings.
There were situations when my parents become so annoyed with me that they had the need to say "Stop analysing, DAMMIT ! " directly into my face.

 

[jenocyde]

Once again I can't say I am suprised. The thing is that I can consider things you consider negative about Te as playful. The main reason why I like games that need planning is because I can simply let my NTJ side from the leash without hurting anyone or making a fatal mistake.

I always got "you are so damn inquisitive!" or "don't challenge me, child!" hahaha... whatever.

You are the exact opposite of me. Learning your P to adapt, while I learned J.

My first response to your question was tongue in cheek, but honestly, the answer is now yes - I would date you because I am curious about you and you amuse me, and you seem to understand me. But only if you were older, lived closer and we were attracted to each other physically. And only if you liked to laugh, which I am still not sure of. Typical P, can't commit to a simple answer, hahaha...


EDIT: oh, you said you use Te for fun. I use Ti for fun. I've been in school my whole life for no reason other than I love to study. I study useless topics that interest me, racking up pointless degrees left and right. It's fun for me. And the people in my life are thankful that I have something to distract me from endlessly questioning them to death. I am a bottomless pit of curiosity (thanks to Ne, I think) and I want to understand everything.

 

[Fluffywolf]

EDIT: oh, you said you use Te for fun. I use Ti for fun. I've been in school my whole life for no reason other than I love to study. I study useless topics that interest me, racking up pointless degrees left and right. It's fun for me. And the people in my life are thankful that I have something to distract me from endlessly questioning them to death. I am a bottomless pit of curiosity (thanks to Ne, I think) and I want to understand everything.

INTP is definatly a good match for you. You would never bore one.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I always got "you are so damn inquisitive!" or "don't challenge me, child!" hahaha... whatever.

You are the exact opposite of me. Learning your P to adapt, while I learned J.

My first response to your question was tongue in cheek, but honestly, the answer is now yes - I would date you because I am curious about you and you amuse me, and you seem to understand me. But only if you were older, lived closer and we were attracted to each other physically. And only if you liked to laugh, which I am still not sure of. Typical P, can't commit to a simple answer, hahaha...

Well if you have a strong preference you will always need to do something to compensate. (if you want efficiency of course)

But none the less I am still quite Jish person and I always will be. Don't be decived.

I don't mind laughing from time to time but this is not something that comes easily to me. But making me laugh is not mission impossible.

 

[jenocyde]

Well if you have a strong preference you will always need to do something to compensate. (if you want efficiency of course)

But none the less I am still quite Jish person and I always will be. Don't be decived.

I don't mind laughing from time to time but this is not something that comes easily to me. But making me laugh is not mission impossible.

No, I mean because you are so J, you are endlessly fascinating to me. I would never expect your compensation tactics to be your true personality in your comfort zone. Just like how I step into my house and leave the J at the door. I will also never change. But I am fascinated by the differences.

INTP is definatly a good match for you. You would never bore one.

I heart you too, fluff.

 

[jenocyde]

And no, I don't want efficiency. Of course.

 

[Virtual ghost]

No, I mean because you are so J, you are endlessly fascinating to me. I would never expect your compensation tactics to be your true personality in your comfort zone. Just like how I step into my house and leave the J at the door. I will also never change. But I am fascinated by the differences.

Of course, since we are opposites that live in environments that are opposites so natural tendencies of each side is what the environment of the other side wants.

What do you mean with " I don't want efficiency" ?

 

[jenocyde]

What do you mean with " I don't want efficiency" ?

Well if you have a strong preference you will always need to do something to compensate. (if you want efficiency of course)

And no, I don't want efficiency. Of course.

I was making a joke, but I really mean it. I see no purpose to be efficient unless there is a logical reason to be. The only logical reasons, in my eyes, exist in the workplace and are strictly for saving money. I want my employees to work as fast as they can within the allotted time, so I don't have to pay overtime. So, they need to be efficient. If there is a deadline that a paying client has set, I need to budget my time and make sure I don't waste time on things that will slow me down. In these instances, it's good to have a plan.

But if I have a flight on Monday, I will not pack 3 days before. Nor will I pack the day before. I am aware of my deadline and will leave at the appropriate time, so as not to miss my flight. But me folding clothes in the taxi on the way to the airport is just something I will always be doing. There is no reason not to.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I was making a joke, but I really mean it. I see no purpose to be efficient unless there is a logical reason to be. The only logical reasons, in my eyes, exist in the workplace and are strictly for saving money. I want my employees to work as fast as they can within the allotted time, so I don't have to pay overtime. So, they need to be efficient. If there is a deadline that a paying client has set, I need to budget my time and make sure I don't waste time on things that will slow me down. In these instances, it's good to have a plan.

But if I have a flight on Monday, I will not pack 3 days before. Nor will I pack the day before. I am aware of my deadline and will leave at the appropriate time, so as not to miss my flight. But me folding clothes in the taxi on the way to the airport is just something I will always be doing. There is no reason not to.

I am curious, Do you see psychological need for order as a logical reason to create order around yourself ?

 

[jenocyde]

I am curious, Do you see psychological need for order as a logical reason to create order around yourself ?

This question is circular. I say no, a psychological need is not logical enough - I need to know where this need stems from and possibly correct it or fix it. Or accept it, depending on its origins. But "need" isn't a reason. But then it makes me question my own psychological need for things to be logical and make sense at all times. And why I feel that my need for logic and reason is "better" than someone else's need for efficiency and order. Because at the end of the day, my own need is still a compulsion.

However, I am a very accepting person once I understand why things are the way they are. I will argue and be upset if constantly being told how to arrange my life. But if I understand your need to be controlling, I will most likely not take it so seriously and personally anymore - it's not about you wanting to control me specifically, it's about X Y or Z about your own character. And then maybe I'll even start to see it as cute.

 

[Virtual ghost]

This question is circular. I say no, a psychological need is not logical enough - I need to know where this need stems from and possibly correct it or fix it. Or accept it, depending on its origins. But "need" isn't a reason. But then it makes me question my own psychological need for things to be logical and make sense at all times. And why I feel that my need for logic and reason is "better" than someone else's need for efficiency and order. Because at the end of the day, my own need is still a compulsion.

However, I am a very accepting person once I understand why things are the way they are. I will argue and be upset if constantly being told how to arrange my life. But if I understand your need to be controlling, I will most likely not take it so seriously and personally anymore - it's not about you wanting to control me specifically, it's about X Y or Z about your own character. And then maybe I'll even start to see it as cute.

To be honest I don't believe in order for the sake of order either. It is just that I see the point of having order more often then you. (I presume)

Especially since in most cases I can't function properly if there is a mess around me. I am simply saying that the place does not have to be sterile and ultra tide all the time.

The only thing with which I will have an issue is if you insist on a mess in areas that effect me directly. But if you want to have you personal corner in a state of disarray that is fine with me.

 

[jenocyde]

To be honest I don't believe in order for the sake of order either. It is just that I see the point of having order more often then you. (I presume)

Especially since in most cases I can't function properly if there is a mess around me. I am simply saying that the place does not have to be sterile and ultra tide all the time.

The only thing with which I will have an issue is if you insist on a mess in areas that effect me directly. But if you want to have you personal corner in a state of disarray that is fine with me.

I hear ya. Actually, I like the common areas to be clean. And I absolutely require my bathroom and kitchen to be sterile at all times. My bathroom especially. I can't handle it when things are filthy in the very place that you become clean. Really I just like cleanliness, and so I often have to keep order to achieve it. It's a sacrifice I have to make *sigh*.

But aside from that, the surface of my desk is bare, but inside the drawers are crammed with all kinds of junk - important folders, old motherboards, sneakers, lipstick, soldering irons and anything else you can possible think of. I just put things wherever they will fit.

My bedroom is like a war zone. Or more like someone bombed a library.

 

[violet_crown]

The reason why I have started this thread in the first place is because my love life can be described by pure 0. Since I have 0 crushes/relationships behind me. Even stuff like kisses and touches are at 0 in my case.
So everything I say take with a reserve, There is nothing really wrong with me, it is just that I didn't pay any attention to this sphere of life.

The main reason why I said that I could get along with ExTJ women is because society over here is chaotic. So there would a natural attraction between us. At least on a friendship level.
The entire thing comes down to the fact that you have unspontaneous and calculated partner. Which means that you can be yourself in most cases without choking your partner.
But I don't consider myself to be ideal for ExTJ women. Especially if ESTJ has a developed S....

I think on a certain level your reasoning about the ENTJ/INTJ relationship is sound. I think that NTJs can make great partners and can complement each other in really extraordinary ways. But from my experience of INTJs theres always a certain amount of chemistry thats lacking. I mean, for me to want to get involved with someone romantically there has to be something compelling about the two of us, overwhelming almost. With an INTJ, I just feel very comfortable, there's a lot of unspoken understanding, but at the same time a lack.

Another thing to be considered is that NTJs are immensely particular creatures in our own particular ways. I looked over that list you put up of things that your partner would "have" to get used to, and besides coming off as somewhat naive, in all likelihood Im pretty sure any NT would hear that and tell you exactly where you could shove your rules. That said, I know I come with my own set of rules, and Ill compromise about some of them but there are certain things that are just part of the deal. Theres a good chance of eventual mutual destruction on that path. I think this is something to consider as well.

And finally, as I mentioned before, there's a certain lack in the NTJ relationship, I think. I mean, I need a certain amount of petting. Now Im not some NF that's gonna cry that out on a mountain top with a sparkle-megaphone but its true. And having been raised by an INTJ, I know that even if its something that would have to pried from your cold, dead lips the same is true of yall. I dunno if the rest of the NTs are like this. I get the impression from the NTPs that the desire for affection is not interpreted necessarily as moral weakness. So that type of individual might be someone to consider also.

In all you seem like a smart, interesting kind of guy. I wrote all this to advise away from trying to find your extraverted clone. Because while theoretically, it sounds good, but practically it falls apart. Hell, I'd go so far as to say stay away from NTs period. NT women are complicated. If I had to do it all over again, I'd find a nice SF or STJ who thought I was wonderful and did all the nice coupley stuff without all the "N"-related hoops and baggage. You don't really get a say, but I think there is a certain level of shenanigans that one should try to avoid with romance.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I hear ya. Actually, I like the common areas to be clean. And I absolutely require my bathroom and kitchen to be sterile at all times. My bathroom especially. I can't handle it when things are filthy in the very place that you become clean. Really I just like cleanliness, and so I often have to keep order to achieve it. It's a sacrifice I have to make *sigh*.

But aside from that, the surface of my desk is bare, but inside the drawers are crammed with all kinds of junk - important folders, old motherboards, sneakers, lipstick, soldering irons and anything else you can possible think of. I just put things wherever they will fit.

My bedroom is like a war zone. Or more like someone bombed a library.

Well, my drawers are orgenized since I don't see too much point in having them if they are just another storage area.

But OK, I am a strong J so I have an excuse about making order around me. .


I am curious, how long can you survive without being in conntact with people without falling into a depression ?
The reason why I ask is because you are E and I have never understod that "I am energized by people" logic.

If you don't want to answer this one you don't have to.