[INTP] Help! I'm an INTP

[groovejet02]

Hello all,
Like a lot of INTPs, I have a problem with motivation. However, I'm doing fine in school and have a bit of money stashed in the bank. Therefore the problem is not about a certain area of my life, but rather my life in general.

People tell me I'm smart, creative and independent, but I feel so helpless thinking about my life and what the future will bring. The thing is, I'm so painfully bored with my life and feel at odds with people in general. It sounds whiny just typing that -- as if I haven't grown out of my teenage blues -- but it's really what I feel. Maybe I'm emotionally immature, but I want your advice here.

As an INTP, I come off as quite smart and educated about many topics and people who notice this about me say they are in awe of my intellect and would love to see me "go out and do stuff". But as an INTP, I'm so addicted to thinking and figuring out ideas that I move from one idea to the next, and have little motivation to see my ideas being applied. I have very few materialistic desires and am so anti-authority that I cannot see myself working with any organization for a significant period in my life.

Relationship-wise, I am intensely loyal to my little circle of family and friends, but am not interested in people in general. I notice that people usually have warm and intense feelings for each other, but I genuinely don't feel that way at all most of the time. I try to be polite with people, but that's the only extent that I'd be willing to go. In a way, I'm kind of snobbish because I feel that people are foolish for not being intellectually curious and adamant about social issues like I feel I am. It feels like I have to dumb myself down when I'm with people because their interests seem so trivial to me (they are fixated on consuming, consuming and consuming). I'm often seen as detached and cold. It doesn't help that I'm a woman and that women are expected to be relational and warm. I also have somewhat awkward Asperger-ish social tendencies (e.g. problems with eye contact, reading social cues and making small talk).

And oh, I have no love life whatsoever. I'm 21 and have never been in a relationship. My introversion, lack of motivation of meeting people and my sexuality (gay) means things are progressing VERY slowly.

At first I thought I needed to apply myself in my studies and I did. I suffered from a host of mental issues (depression, anxiety) when I was in my teens causing me to be a near-failure at school, and was constantly admonished by my family. And even though I was so miserable, I managed to scrape through and now am in my 2nd year of university and doing fine.

Then my financial situation made me panic and I thought that maybe I needed to get a job to feel better, and I did some part-time work, and even though my savings are not a lot, it's a step. Work does make me feel less helpless, but not majorly so. As a student, I have to deal with minimal pay and being in an area I don't give a damn about (retail).

Now, I'm taking a break from work before I find another one, and am waiting for the new semester of school to start. And even though things seem to go fine, I cannot for the life of me feel excited about life.

I know this isn't exactly depression because I've been through that and know what it feels like.

I suspect that my trouble is how I see the world -- it's somewhat at odds with societal expectations. I don't care about socializing, am very intense (concerned with big issues and morals) and love to study.

I'm trying to apply myself more, such as trying to apply my ideals on the real world by doing some work with NGOs on women's rights (an issue I'm most passionate about). But it seems that despite all this -- school, work and volunteering -- I feel that it would never be ENOUGH, because the world demands so much.

I see people having aspirations like money, friendship and reputation and even though I scoff at their aspirations as shallow, I'm in awe of how people seem to generally love life and are so motivated.

I feel so empty and restless. I feel so unvalidated because no one functions like I do: they don't care about ideas like I am, they constantly want me to socialize and be a mindless consumer.

What keeps me going is that I'm curious and would like to see the world. And to a certain extent, see that my ideals come to the fruition, but I could never be as peaceful as INFPs and INFJs, and to be as strong-willed as INTJS. INTJs what to shape the world, INTPs simply want to figure it out.

Which leads to the questions: Do life get better for INTPs as they grow older or are they doomed to be eternally restless and uncommitted? What should I do? What keeps INTPs going? I feel that I'm not aggressive enough for to assert my self in this world. I feel so unmotivated to strive for anything.


PS. Sorry if that was long and whiny, but I had to get it out of my system.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I can actually agree with a lot of what you have said, about being bored with life. The things that people do, admire, and strive to achieve are not things I am particularly interested in. Much of my day to day life, I find myself extremely detached from the rest of world. I look at others and their interests, their goals, and their motivation and I wonder how they can be so satisfied with what I see as relatively unimportant in the larger scope of the world.

I am 22, in school, and am painfully aware of how insignificant I am. I feel...boxed in. Constrained by expectation. I find obstacles everywhere, because of my cynicism. My lack of will power, and self discipline is something I've battled all my life really, and something I haven't really been able to master.

To be honest, I don't really have an answer, because my outlook is somewhat similar. My only advice is to do whatever you truly enjoy, and don't worry about other expectations, but that's not something I have followed either, so I don't even know if it will work.

 

[Tallulah]

Welcome! That was a very honest and heartfelt (for an INTP, even!) post, and you've described probably the experience of almost every INTP on the planet.

Which leads to the questions: Do life get better for INTPs as they grow older or are they doomed to be eternally restless and uncommitted? What should I do? What keeps INTPs going? I feel that I'm not aggressive enough for to assert my self in this world. I feel so unmotivated to strive for anything.

It does get better--the more you understand yourself, and the more you run up against sharp and unyielding objects and people in the world, the more refined your worldview becomes, and the more you know what you do and don't want from life. I can't say that I've ever completely solved the part about knowing what I want to do with my life, but I've narrowed it down quite a bit, and I have given up trying to be like everyone else. Teaching, though sometimes a giant pain (b/c of PEOPLE!), has been rewarding for me so far--and I satisfy my other interests in my spare time, learning guitar and being in a band and such.

You'll probably never quite feel like you were made for this world the way it works now, but you probably won't always feel quite so frustrated. Coming here is a big step, b/c it's really nice to find likeminded people--one doesn't feel SO much like an alien.

Are you female yourself?

 

[Amargith]

welcome

 

[foodeater]

I'm there too, I wish I knew how to get over it.

 

[nozflubber]

You must learn to dance! The poga dance! inside your head! Let the ideas run WILD and just not give a damn! Just try not to get banned


I was gonna say much more but I cleared all information from my buffer drive once I read your sexuality (sorry, PigheadedMalev8.90 expectation limits).

Welcome.

 

[entropie]

Remember one thing, if people tell you that you are smart, clever and intelligent, something is really going wrong

 

[Provoker]

Do life get better for INTPs as they grow older or are they doomed to be eternally restless and uncommitted? What should I do? What keeps INTPs going? I feel that I'm not aggressive enough for to assert my self in this world. I feel so unmotivated to strive for anything.

Well, speaking as an INTJ, I don't want to prescribe courses of action that will erode the very pillars that make up your INTPness. However, this is a problem which can be tackled in a systematic way. Given your situation, I'd recommend the following actionable strategy.

First, choose activities (hobbies, fields of study, careers, etc) that allow for diversity within the activity. In other words, as an INTP you're more likely to be intellectually satisfied when you're pursuing what you're interested in at a given time, which in effect will maximize your productivity. In contrast, avoid planning too far ahead and/or undertaking specific projects that last years, because by the time you have a few years under your belt your interests will have changed and you won't be as stimulated or productive. If, however, you've opted for an activity with more diversity, then you'll have more wiggle room within the confines of that activity. In effect, this will help keep you stimulated and productive and at the same time it affords you a broad corridor with milestones which, if/when attained, will provide you with a sense of accomplishment.

Second, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Your lack of motivation likely derives from two sources. One, that on some level you hold the assumption that you are all-knowing. In my own words, it's the Good Will Hunting complex wherein one can never begin to make the first move because all one sees is every negative thing ten steps down the road. Now, although people call you smart, who are people? Let's think about this a little more critically. The average IQ is only 100 (maybe a little higher depending on where you live). Therefore, in relative terms, you're going to come off as smart to Joe the plumber, and you probably are smart to be sure. But let's not lose are heads here and use this as a pretext for omniscience--and by extension the inaction I just mentioned. You, like I, have a three dimensional Euclidean earthbound mind that thinks in terms of syllogisms. And while I'm on this I mine as well make another closely related counterpoint to a claim you made. You criticized people who lack intellectual curiosity and so forth. But this perspective lacks critical evaluation on multiple levels. First, many people out there work long days, have children to provide for, and so forth. For these people, the capitalist system prevents them from having the time to research social issues in detail. Moreover, their main source of information is through media outlets and personal and shared experiences. Furthermore, given this system, not everyone has the luxury to engage material. You mentioned you're in university right? Ya, me too. I'm in my final year with a 4.0 GPA and in the process of applying to law school and grad school. Do I make others feel depraved when they lack insight on an issue? No, because I don't consider everyone an idiot, I consider myself fortunate. This isn't even about intelligence, it's about attitude. The other source for a lack of motivation likely has something to do with you being a risk-averse person, though I would need more information to prove this point to its fullest potential. None the less, you are likely governed by some sort of INTP law that holds that when you're engaging in contemplation and theoretical thinking you are strong and confident, but when you take a course of action you put yourself in a vulnerable position. If this is true, then I recommend undergoing the following process: begin setting tiny tangible goals with timelines for achieving these goals. Over time, you can raise the benchmark and/or set tougher goals, but the idea is to habitualize yourself into working toward something and thereby gaining more confidence in taking action.

Also, a strong argument can be made that the ultimate test of your theories is the practical application of them. Therefore, your theories won't reach their fullest potential without action. And for theories that are more abstract and can't be tangibly verified, still, the ultimate test will be whether or not you have the conviction and integrity to support the theory.

 

[Orangey]

I, too, restrain myself from making others feel depraved.

OP: I relate to your post in its entirety. As such, I, unlike Provoker, have no useful words of wisdom to offer you.

 

[Cimarron]

Wow, look at all the lonely people. Best wishes, INTPs.

--John Lennon

 

[blanclait]

^
i thought they were bored, not lonely.

 

[groovejet02]

Hello,
Sorry for the late reply. After posting this, I thought about my problem more thoroughly and have come up with some answers myself.

Are you female yourself?

Yes. I think this contributes a lot to my being considered out-of-place -- I suspect much more than INTP men suffer.

I was gonna say much more but I cleared all information from my buffer drive once I read your sexuality (sorry, PigheadedMalev8.90 expectation limits).

Why? People are people, gay or straight. I could have benefited from your insights. But ah, too bad.

Remember one thing, if people tell you that you are smart, clever and intelligent, something is really going wrong

Ah you see, being smart -- or thinking that I am -- is my best defense mechanism. I threw in that line to make me feel better about myself. You're right -- I shouldn't fall for their praise. There's a saying that showering people with praises is a cruel thing to do, because you're preventing them from achieving self-development.

First, choose activities (hobbies, fields of study, careers, etc) that allow for diversity within the activity. In other words, as an INTP you're more likely to be intellectually satisfied when you're pursuing what you're interested in at a given time, which in effect will maximize your productivity. In contrast, avoid planning too far ahead and/or undertaking specific projects that last years, because by the time you have a few years under your belt your interests will have changed and you won't be as stimulated or productive. If, however, you've opted for an activity with more diversity, then you'll have more wiggle room within the confines of that activity. In effect, this will help keep you stimulated and productive and at the same time it affords you a broad corridor with milestones which, if/when attained, will provide you with a sense of accomplishment.

Thanks! This is a very good idea. I realize I've been limiting myself to several pursuits (most of them intellectual). I need to experiment more and gauge my full potential. Being 22 years old, and not yet burdened by work or family, I should take advantage of this time of my life

Second, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Your lack of motivation likely derives from two sources. One, that on some level you hold the assumption that you are all-knowing. In my own words, it's the Good Will Hunting complex wherein one can never begin to make the first move because all one sees is every negative thing ten steps down the road. Now, although people call you smart, who are people? Let's think about this a little more critically. The average IQ is only 100 (maybe a little higher depending on where you live). Therefore, in relative terms, you're going to come off as smart to Joe the plumber, and you probably are smart to be sure. But let's not lose are heads here and use this as a pretext for omniscience--and by extension the inaction I just mentioned. You, like I, have a three dimensional Euclidean earthbound mind that thinks in terms of syllogisms. And while I'm on this I mine as well make another closely related counterpoint to a claim you made. You criticized people who lack intellectual curiosity and so forth. But this perspective lacks critical evaluation on multiple levels. First, many people out there work long days, have children to provide for, and so forth. For these people, the capitalist system prevents them from having the time to research social issues in detail. Moreover, their main source of information is through media outlets and personal and shared experiences. Furthermore, given this system, not everyone has the luxury to engage material. You mentioned you're in university right? Ya, me too. I'm in my final year with a 4.0 GPA and in the process of applying to law school and grad school. Do I make others feel depraved when they lack insight on an issue? No, because I don't consider everyone an idiot, I consider myself fortunate. This isn't even about intelligence, it's about attitude.

I disagree with your assessment about people's lack of intellectual curiosity. I'm from Malaysia, a thriving country which is rapidly modernizing. The standard of living increases rapidly. However, the downside to economic growth and modernization is that society is becoming more and more materialistic and shallow. Plus, we have been colonized several times and as a result, we have largely failed to think independently. Furthermore, I should note that being young and middle-class, I mostly associate with other young and middle-class people. It frustrates me to see that most of them spend their cash mostly on booze or excessive shopping trips. Their parents are no better. It's not that they are burdened with responsibilities.

Whatever it is, I have to acknowledge that I am wrong to patronize people and be all-knowing.

You, like I, have a three dimensional Euclidean earthbound mind that thinks in terms of syllogisms

Could you elaborate more on this please. Do you think that's a weakness of certain people, particularly INTJs and INTPs?

The other source for a lack of motivation likely has something to do with you being a risk-averse person, though I would need more information to prove this point to its fullest potential. None the less, you are likely governed by some sort of INTP law that holds that when you're engaging in contemplation and theoretical thinking you are strong and confident, but when you take a course of action you put yourself in a vulnerable position.

I agree. I'm so locked in my ivory tower that I've become afraid of dealing with things that do not involve theoretical thinking.

.. I recommend undergoing the following process: begin setting tiny tangible goals with timelines for achieving these goals. Over time, you can raise the benchmark and/or set tougher goals, but the idea is to habitualize yourself into working toward something and thereby gaining more confidence in taking action.

Baby steps. Good point. One INTP profile notes that INTPs have very grand, very narcissistic ideas of what they should achieve. This is not healthy. Plus, I have this bad habit of undermining whatever I achieve (with thoughts such as, "It was too easy!"). I need to give myself more credit without falling into the lazy arrogance trap.

Also, a strong argument can be made that the ultimate test of your theories is the practical application of them. Therefore, your theories won't reach their fullest potential without action. And for theories that are more abstract and can't be tangibly verified, still, the ultimate test will be whether or not you have the conviction and integrity to support the theory.

Truly. I'm learning this more and more. This is what I admire so much about INTJs. The good news is that I have an INTJ best friend who's really pushing for her ideals, and I think I could benefit so much from learning from her.

^
i thought they were bored, not lonely.

Ah, we can get quite lonely! Not in the fleeting "I feel so down tonight, I need a hug" (we're too busy reading up postmodernism or something to notice we're even lonely, and when we do indeed feel this way, we rely on our few, trusted confidantes) but I suspect an INTP's loneliness is much deeper. With such rich inner lives, and a strong-will to figure out any problem, we may feel alienated by society which don't exactly function the way we do. With no one to validate, or even realize our abstractions and imagination, we fall into dark moods, low self-esteem and self-loathing. I've gone through these periods. They were truly paralyzing.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Ah, we can get quite lonely! Not in the fleeting "I feel so down tonight, I need a hug" (we're too busy reading up postmodernism or something to notice we're even lonely, and when we do indeed feel this way, we rely on our few, trusted confidantes) but I suspect an INTP's loneliness is much deeper. With such rich inner lives, and a strong-will to figure out any problem, we may feel alienated by society which don't exactly function the way we do. With no one to validate, or even realize our abstractions and imagination, we fall into dark moods, low self-esteem and self-loathing. I've gone through these periods. They were truly paralyzing.

Perfectly described the loneliness feeling for me. The loneliness is deeper than "I have no one to play with." There are times when you feel like the only person on the planet. When you feel like the only person thinking what you're thinking, the only person seeing what you're seeing. It's a slippery slope. You have a tremendous amount of insight.

 

[EcK]

whining again ?

 

[groovejet02]

'Provoker' has pointed out some good advice (be more humble, take more risks, set small tangible goals and proceed from there, apply your ideas in the real world).

After much thinking, I have come with several other points, which I hope would make INTPs more well-rounded individuals:


1. Trust your intuition.

An INTP's greatest asset is her analytical mind. An INTP's greatest weakness is her analytical mind. Apply your tough-mindedness where it matters: figuring out a moral/ethical debate, writing a paper, configuring Linux, etc. But don't expand your energy on things that shouldn't matter (over-worrying about the future, whether or not you can actually accomplish something, running through last week's event a thousand times in your mind). Don't be too much a perfectionist. Realise when your thinking function becomes pathological. You can't control everything.

Once that an INTP learns to not overthink and seize the day, the world will be her oyster.

I'm reminded of the famous Martha Graham quote:

It is not your business to determine how good it is, not how it compares with other expression. It is your business to keep it yours clearly and directly, to keep the channel open. You do not even have to believe in yourself or your work. You have to keep open and aware directly to the urges that motivate you. Keep the channel open.

2. Physical reality matters - learn from Sensors.

Your grand ideas won't come through without you attending to details that would make them work. Yes, details are boring and tedious, but important.

Also, pay attention to your surrounding. It has more effect on yourself than you give credit for.

3. You can't figure out everything.

There is no truth. Or maybe there is. Either way, we're too limited, too small to figure it out completely, if at all. Don't look down on others' path to enlightenment. Don't be too quick to patronize and criticize people because they have other ways in seeing the world. Sometimes INTPs are higly theoretical to the point of losing wisdom. We have booksmarts, not so much real-life experience to back them up.


4. Invest in relationships.

Be more mindful of other people's feelings. Keep check on your tendency to be callous and self-absorbed. Appreciate people's feelings even if they are not logical. But also realize you can't be a savior --- sometimes people just want a listening ear. Draw on your strengths such as your loyalty, your capacity for listening and your kind-heartedness. Also, be genuinely appreciative of people.


---

Hmm, that's all I can think of right now.

 

[groovejet02]

whining again ?

Don't be rude.

 

[EcK]

Don't be rude.

I'm just stating facts instead of sugar coating everything and starting the usual 'we are special' delirium.

What next.
How to be more spontaneous explained thanks to a 30 bullet points powerpoint?

 

[groovejet02]

I'm just stating facts instead of sugar coating everything and starting the usual 'we are special' delirium.

What next.
How to be more spontaneous explained thanks to a 30 bullet points powerpoint?

If I thought we were so special, I wouldn't have come here to ask for honest feedback. If I thought we were so special, I wouldn't have admitted myself the many flaws of the INTP personality (as evidenced in my post on how INTPs can be better).

 

[EcK]

Ok I think there's some major misunderstanding there. I wasn't attacking the person but the process, u need somebody to tell things bluntly otherwise we both know this thread would just sink into the 'let's have some theory, draw a few maps and theorize some more until the final end of time and space.
It's just that, alot of people, especially your everyday intx. Will tend to have a very good understanding of the general concepts without ever actually trying it out.

So for once why not simply sum it all up in 3 words such as 'just do it' and get sued by nike in the process.

And not post the usual bla bla but rather feedbacks of what they actually did in the real world.

 

[groovejet02]

Ok I think there's some major misunderstanding there.
It's just that, alot of people, especially your everyday intx. Will tend to have a very good understanding of the theory without ever actually trying it out.

So for once why not simply sum up in 3 words such as 'just do it' and get sued by nike in the process.

But why not think about it carefully first? I needed to analyze beforehand what caused me to be so demotivated. It's my nature to think before acting.

I see you're Enneagram type 7w8. I'm type 5. I'm guessing that you are more assertive and spontaneous. Not me. But I can try, one step at a time.