[MBTI General] stimulated world

[Willfrey]

So your only explination lies in a force unknown to science.

Since planets more or less are given equal pull in astrology we can deduce: The effect the planet has on us is not effected by a planet's mass. If it were then Jupiter would rule all and little Mercury would be left out. Also by astrologer's own claims distance isn't a factor as both Venus and Pluto have more or less the same measurable effect (in the sense that it effects us somehow).

So back to what I was talking about earlier, if distance and mass don't effect this force that rules our lives then what about the billions upon billions of asteriods in our solar system? What about the large transneptunian objects like Quoar, Sedna, Orcus, Eris, etc etc etc? And hey, distance isn't a factor, so what about the planets beyond our solar system? Scientists today accept exosolar planets are a pretty common thing, so fifty years ago why didn't some astrologer say "Hey, there are gaps in my data, there *must* be other planets out there."

By the rules of this 'unkown force' all the asteriods/planets/everything everywhere would simply be drowned out by the trillions of other celestial bodies.

 

[Willfrey]

And acupuncture is a load. Its easy to do disprove, I don't even have to do any research : There are thousands of hospitals instead of acupuncture clinics. You show me a man who's cancer is cured by acupuncture I'll show you a man who never had cancer in the first place.

 

[tinkerbell]

Since planets more or less are given equal pull in astrology we can deduce: The effect the planet has on us is not effected by a planet's mass. If it were then Jupiter would rule all and little Mercury would be left out. Also by astrologer's own claims distance isn't a factor as both Venus and Pluto have more or less the same measurable effect (in the sense that it effects us somehow).

You know you don't half talk rott....

All astrologers will tell you the planets have different impacts - actually the further out the more powerful.

The moon circulates the chart every c.28 days - it has pull on moods and emotions and fertility cycles - was actualyl a big player in crop management a long while ago.

Mercury - is important in day to day communications and travel but not life changing.

Mars - adds energy and focus for about 6 weeks to go through a house, except when it's rex, in which case it can last c.5 months. Typically it just ticks on a good or bad month, or a month when you are really busy at work or reall busy with love life, home etc etc

Jupiter lasts about a year in a house, has bigger impact but generally brings nice things or things that work out well. In your first house - it can have you out and about, indicate a make over but also a tendancy to put weight on.

Saturn - nasty little blighter most would say, personally I like him. He dictates you must work on an area in your life for about 2.5 years before he moves into the next house...

NOW IT GETS INTERESTING!

Uranus can take several years to get through your chart, brings restlesness a need for freedom, inventiveness, unexpected events, sudden happenings - I've got it in my 6th house (jobs you do to pay the rent, service and health) right now and spent the first 3 years of it temping and various health issuse, it toned down when I started work in a service organisation. Transits take c.7 years in a house

Neptune - can last a lot longer in a house, it tends to be idealisim, illusions and deception, confusion, apathy, dreaming of alternatives. A whole bunch of other things. Can take many years to get through a house

Pluto - the biggie, has a huge impact, when I said I would spot transits for people over 35 - it's Pluto I wanted to look at. People KNOW when they have had pluto transits, it causes undisputible life events... Often brining death, divorce, sudden and drastic change, increadible stress and a hoist of other interesting stuff - not always bad but most people think it is.... it only breaks what itsn't working for you.

SO contrary to your spouttings the planets have a huge difference in terms of power and impact. You know all about a Pluto transit, and you are so use to moon ones that you would do well to spot them without looking for them.

L

 

[tinkerbell]

And acupuncture is a load. Its easy to do disprove, I don't even have to do any research : There are thousands of hospitals instead of acupuncture clinics. You show me a man who's cancer is cured by acupuncture I'll show you a man who never had cancer in the first place.

Surprisingly enough the people who have run blind experiments, have PROVEN - Scientifically it works...

So spout rott to your hearts content... simply not interested in childish - doesn't exist because I say so... crap argument and rather dull and to be honest worthy of someone who is under 20

Lis

 

[Costrin]

Surprisingly enough the people who have run blind experiments, have PROVEN - Scientifically it works...

Source?

 

[Kangirl]

Surprisingly enough the people who have run blind experiments, have PROVEN - Scientifically it works...

Yeah, this isn't true. There have been *some* experiments that have shown acupuncture to be slightly beneficial, for certain conditions, but these studies have not been repeated reliably, and they haven't been able to rule out the placebo effect, either.

The most recent study on fertility and acupuncture actually found that *fewer* women who had had acupuncture became pregnant compared to those who had none.

I have never had acupuncture, but I know quite a few people who rave about it. I dunno, even if it *is* the placebo effect - if you feel like it works, who cares?

 

[Willfrey]

Well you seem to tactfully avoid my main points and then talk about things irrelevant to what I'm asking, or go off on tangets over trivial details. I don't want to argue about acupuncture, I'm not asking what aspect of my life a planet specifically 'rules' over.

I'm asking why does astrology only take into account celestail bodies known only during it's conception. Why was there never a huge gap in astrologer's data regarding undiscovered dwarf planets? By your own words the further out objects are the more powerful they are, then what of Eris? It is larger than pluto (not that planetary mass has anything to do with astrology) and much further out. Farther out still is Sedna, and it roughly the closest it will ever come to the sun in its wild orbit.

Its really quite interesting, currently we are only able to detect some of these dwarf planets becuase they are in close proximity to the sun in their odd, ellipitical orbits. It only makes you question how many others there are our there that we can't detect. Really I think advances in science aren't making astrology any more plausible, but rather it highlights the glaring flaws in the system.

 

[tinkerbell]

Source?

Google it something around Accupuncture test - theres been loads on standard accupuncture and electric accupuncture, the've even done experiments on animals...

Loads of them- they can find it works but have no idea how

Lis

 

[tinkerbell]

.

I'm asking why does astrology only take into account celestail bodies known only during it's conception. Why was there never a huge gap in astrologer's data regarding undiscovered dwarf planets? By your own words the further out objects are the more powerful they are, then what of Eris? It is larger than pluto (not that planetary mass has anything to do with astrology) and much further out. Farther out still is Sedna, and it roughly the closest it will ever come to the sun in its wild orbit.

As for Orbits etc - Neputues pretty wobbly in terms of orbit, Plutos a bit in the same boat... Both hae quite major impact.

.

Ok to explain, traditional astrologers (the ones who use astrology without any add on planets) only use Sun, Moon, Mercury, venus, mars, Jupiter, Saturn. and moon nodes

More modern ones also put in Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

The taditionalists say the more modern planets don't rules signs, the research think they have influence but may go either way on the sign thing. Personally I've seen these outter planets work and powerfully, so I don't ignore them. Do they rule a sign - I've no fixed opinion.

What about astroids etc - well some are taken into acount but the main palyers are listed above. Many use Chiron - which has it place, some use Vist, Eros, psyce etc... It's like information overload, these additional are not powerful enough IMO.

Lis

 

[Costrin]

Google it something around Accupuncture test - theres been loads on standard accupuncture and electric accupuncture, the've even done experiments on animals...

Loads of them- they can find it works but have no idea how

Lis

Would you mind linking to one that you find reliable?

 

[tinkerbell]

Source?

Your probably an adult, who is big enough to google stuff all by themselves

 

[tinkerbell]

Yeah, this isn't true. There have been *some* experiments that have shown acupuncture to be slightly beneficial, for certain conditions, but these studies have not been repeated reliably, and they haven't been able to rule out the placebo effect, either.

The most recent study on fertility and acupuncture actually found that *fewer* women who had had acupuncture became pregnant compared to those who had none.

I have never had acupuncture, but I know quite a few people who rave about it. I dunno, even if it *is* the placebo effect - if you feel like it works, who cares?

Well to be honest, my boss is a rationalist and even he has sighted evidence, you are big grown up people who are capable of doing research on line like everyone else.

I've seen a variety of studies myself both on humans and animals...

 

[Costrin]

Your probably an adult, who is big enough to google stuff all by themselves

And your probably an adult, who realizes that telling people to "google it yourself", is not the way a debate is to be conducted. One should be able to provide sources to defend your position yourself. It is not the skeptics job to search for evidence that supports the other person's position.

Plus, I was giving you the opportunity to be able to provide a particularly reliable and convincing article. By me googling it myself, there is an inherent risk that I will not find articles that accurately represent your position.

You may think that I am being immature by not doing a 5 minute google search. Well, I think you're being immature by not doing the same and requiring other people to do your work.

 

[tinkerbell]

And your probably an adult, who realizes that telling people to "google it yourself", is not the way a debate is to be conducted. One should be able to provide sources to defend your position yourself. It is not the skeptics job to search for evidence that supports the other person's position.

Plus, I was giving you the opportunity to be able to provide a particularly reliable and convincing article. By me googling it myself, there is an inherent risk that I will not find articles that accurately represent your position.

You may think that I am being immature by not doing a 5 minute google search. Well, I think you're being immature by not doing the same and requiring other people to do your work.

Who the hell do you thinks gonna do your home work...not me I already did mine

I do think the level of argument here (not nessesarily forwarded by yourself) hav verged on hissy fit a small child might do - not true cos I say so (and thats a really powerful argument) Often the posts have come from people who know nothing about the study of real astrology and usually from people who beleive that astrology = horoscopes which it most certainly not (hosocopes are based on astrology not the other way around). Horoscpes are like reading an online health page and diagnosing something.

I'm not about to start wading around doing research for someone else... Your the one saying it - back up if you feel the need but personally speaking I don't give a fig, I've done my home work many years ago and found what I found....

Lis

 

[Costrin]

Who the hell do you thinks gonna do your home work...not me I already did mine

I do think the level of argument here (not nessesarily forwarded by yourself) hav verged on hissy fit a small child might do - not true cos I say so (and thats a really powerful argument) Often the posts have come from people who know nothing about the study of real astrology and usually from people who beleive that astrology = horoscopes which it most certainly not (hosocopes are based on astrology not the other way around). Horoscpes are like reading an online health page and diagnosing something.

I'm not about to start wading around doing research for someone else... Your the one saying it - back up if you feel the need but personally speaking I don't give a fig, I've done my home work many years ago and found what I found....

Lis

I am God. Really. The proof is out there, you just gotta look for it. If you can't find it, it's because you haven't looked hard enough. Do you see how fallacious that is?

If you make a claim (especially one as controversial as this), be prepared to back it up. That is your job. Your homework. My homework would be to be prepared to back up my own claims (I haven't made any in this thread), and to unbiasedly assess the evidence that you provide.

If you fail to do your homework, don't be surprised when you fail the class (equivalent in this case to people not believing you). If your fine with failing the class, then so be it, but don't knock those who do wish to pass.

 

[tinkerbell]

Sorry I'm a researcher - albeit Market Research - my consukltancy fee are £1000 a day - otherwise do you own homework, it's not really worthy of my time

Lis

 

[redacted]

Sorry I'm a researcher - albeit Market Research - my consukltancy fee are £1000 a day - otherwise do you own homework, it's not really worthy of my time

Lis

Well you're obviously right then.

I'm sorry I ever doubted you.

 

[tinkerbell]

Now now, don't put me in that boat, I'm simply not going waiste my time on feeding someone else... they are capable of doing it all by themselves....

 

[redacted]

Now now, don't put me in that boat, I'm simply not going waiste my time on feeding someone else... they are capable of doing it all by themselves....

My philosophy is that when you entertain a theory, you try as hard as you can to prove it wrong. If you can't, you can keep your theory.

If you just look for positive evidence, all theories are correct.

 

[Costrin]

Now now, don't put me in that boat, I'm simply not going waiste my time on feeding someone else... they are capable of doing it all by themselves....

To extend that metaphor, you aren't willing to cook your specific variety of food for me, and you're fine with me not eating it as a result.

Well, I'm not willing to cook your recipe myself (and in fact, believe I would likely mess it up), and I'm fine with not eating it as a result. There's plenty of other food out there.

So, we both have an understanding then.