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[MBTI General] Help my dad an ESTJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :(:(:(

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
582
MBTI Type
ENTP
Title says it all.
I realised my dad was an ESTJ last night after reading the parent-child section of Please Understand Me ii (PUM 2).
Last 6 months we have been at each others necks constantly and its doing my head in. My mum doesn't help much as he doesn't listen to her, although he seems to think he does. I think she is an SF of somesort and probably an J.

Its hell and after reading PUM 2 i'm a touch worried since i leave home this summer and in the rational child guardian parent section it says that rationals often argue with SJs especially STJs and can often become estranged (is that the word) from STJs. I'm actually not bothered by it that much right now tbh but i know it will bother me in the future if it happens and right now its looking very likely.

Help! Can anyone offer any advice to making things better or atleast making life torrable untill i leave?


EDIT: If it helps at all most of the arguements starts getting worse since i became more extravated and discovered my Ne. He hates all my typical INTP jokes as well which have become more frequent since my Ne.
 

Hendo Barbarosa

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
197
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I love how Ne is like a super-power in your story. It often seems like that to me too.

I wish I could help more with the sitch. What kinds of things does your dad do that make life INtorrable?
 

CJ99

Is Willard in Footloose!!
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
582
MBTI Type
ENTP
I love how Ne is like a super-power in your story. It often seems like that to me too.

I wish I could help more with the sitch. What kinds of things does your dad do that make life INtorrable?


Well he askes me to do things and refuses to give me a reason to do it. Says things like "just do it" and "because thats the way it is". Likeone night my familly had macoroni cheese, something i won't eat as it makes feel ill, so i made my own food and did all my wasking and cleared my stuff all away. He then asked me to do all the dishes and i refused as i had done my share and had did them all the night before. He went absolutely mental literally shouting about how selfish and unthoughtfull i was. I tried to reason with him whick sent him off worse.
He went on about how i never willingly do house work, which is true when other people are in but i do tidy up mess when in alone, and i asked "why would i willingly do a task i do not enjoy?". He didn't seem to understand that i could not willingly want to do an unenjoyable task saying "you belong to a familly so should do task willingly for your familly and you are intelligent so don't pretend you don't notice the mess". To be honest i don't notice the mess. He doesn't understand that while very thinking orientated i'm a very absent minded head up in the clouds person who doesn't notice mess - and when i do - i don't see it as a problem.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
If you mean it literally when you say your dad goes "absolutely mental," then MBTI, Enneagram, Socionics, etc. probably can't help you much. There are bigger problems there.

If you don't mean it quite so literally, then never mind me.
 
Last edited:

Hendo Barbarosa

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
197
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
this is just a loosely fitting S strategy in general, so if people know an ESTJ or know more about it, they should expound...but you know what I wonder though? Would it be possible to present an N principle as an S pact?

Like... "look I'll make you a deal. If you ALWAYS explain yourself, then I give you a guarantee that I will ALWAYS do what you ask accordingly. No explanation, nothing gets done."

Now...there are SERIOUSLY freaky loopholes in this deal...but I mean, if you're moving out in a little bit, it might work as a temporary fix?
 

Eruca

78% me
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Messages
939
MBTI Type
INxx
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Title says it all.
I realised my dad was an ESTJ last night after reading the parent-child section of Please Understand Me ii (PUM 2).
Last 6 months we have been at each others necks constantly and its doing my head in. My mum doesn't help much as he doesn't listen to her, although he seems to think he does. I think she is an SF of somesort and probably an J.

Its hell and after reading PUM 2 i'm a touch worried since i leave home this summer and in the rational child guardian parent section it says that rationals often argue with SJs especially STJs and can often become estranged (is that the word) from STJs. I'm actually not bothered by it that much right now tbh but i know it will bother me in the future if it happens and right now its looking very likely.

Help! Can anyone offer any advice to making things better or atleast making life torrable untill i leave?


EDIT: If it helps at all most of the arguements starts getting worse since i became more extravated and discovered my Ne. He hates all my typical INTP jokes as well which have become more frequent since my Ne.

I pity you.

My dad is an ISTJ. We don't share much when it comes to our views on life but we get on well enough.

From my own experience and what I've heard ESTJs are pretty much the arch-nemesis of INTPs. The interesting thing about STJ vs NT interactions is the NT can often realise the value of the STJ's organisation/practicality, while the STJ can't recognise the value of the NT's rational. At least, that is what I've found.
 

Bougal

HUZZAH!
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Just shut your mouth and do what they say, and find a method to vent. That's all you can do. If you confront them with the problem, then they will fly off the handle, and the relationship will become even more strained. My mom is a very very unhealthy and disgruntled ESFJ, so I have the same problem. Her clean home is her pride and joy, and she is a stay at home wife, so it is her only task. I am exactly the same way with the inability to not see a mess. I just walk right past it, and she always asks me why I don't clean it when I see it. In the past when I have confronted her she has thrown hairdryers and brushes at my head (these confrontations tend to take place in a bathroom for some reason) and than she cries and doesn't talk to me for days. Sorry to be brash, but I have tried to fix my relationship with my mother, and it just does not work. I hope someone else can offer you something more useful.
 

Bougal

HUZZAH!
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
708
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ENTP
Just be sure not to pity yourself. It can be hard, and you can get lost in negative emotions, but just shut them off when they come up. Try to continue to develop positively even though you have a strained relationship with one of your parents. And I have found that introspection helps a lot in these situations. And remeber, no one is the enemy, you just have different priorities and communication styles. Don't victimize yourself.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
MBTI Type
INTP
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5w4
This is what I see happening. Fairly recently you discovered typology and have fallen into the same trap most people, including myself, do: you see your conflict as a challenge to your whole being and nature. You read NT as being preoccupied with thoughts and not concerned with organization and external appearance, and your see your father’s demands that you be as a challenge to your NT side, and your freedom. You see this NT aspect as being something permanent, as well as something that justifies behavior that flows from this NTness. So, a simple (and pretty reasonable) request that you keep the common areas tidy mushrooms into a massive existential dilemma. “How the hell can I be myself and clean the living room simultaneously?” I appreciate that situation because I found myself in it a lot, especially when I first discovered typology and I imagine a lot of other people see it that way too. I also appreciate the need and search for authenticity, as I think it’s one of the most valuable quests on which a person can embark.

I also see a difference between narcissism and authenticity. Being authentic means finding out what you really feel and what you really value and expressing that in deep ways. If you’re passionate about helping others, quitting your job your parents planned for you and participating in humanitarian efforts is an example of authentic living. Choosing not to clean the living room because you are not a tidy person falls more within the realm of narcissism, as if to say “if I don’t naturally want to do it, I can’t be bothered.” The difference is not just in the depth of the problem, but in the quality of experience. Refusing to clean: neurotic and narcissistic; refusing to work in something that conflicts with your deeply held values about morality: priceless freeing and beautiful. Giving up this narcissism isn’t the same as giving up being authentic, even though it may appear that way on the surface.

I’d suggest you bite the bullet and submit to your dad’s requests with dignity. You can still be yourself in a deep way even if you compromise on little things. It might suck, but it’s part of cohabitation, and you do it because it pays off in the end: a satisfying relationship with your father, something lots of people don’t have. I would also suggest you consider that your type is a rough classification of your personality, not something that cannot be added to or changed or balanced. Next time you talk to your dad, try talking to him like an adult rather than “his kid” and see how he responds. I think it’ll help you earn some of the respect and recognition you’re looking for deep down.

Good luck!

P.S. My dad is an ISTJ. It's not always pretty and we went through some tough times, but we now work together and have found some areas of life we both enjoy and have formed a sort of partnership.
 

Darjur

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Oct 26, 2008
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493
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It's a relationship held down by a string. What I learned is that it is usually better in the long run to cut the string rather than try to balance on it.

Apathy my dear friend. That is the answer.

If he yells at you, ignore him.
If he demands something unreasonable, tell him why it's unreasonable and ignore the request.

If he stops talking to you, good. Less trouble.
 

Hendo Barbarosa

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doesn't that only work in a scenario in which the aforementioned parent can't kick your ass?
 

Darjur

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Well in that case he has to become less of a wuss.
 

Bougal

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ENTP
No, don't completely sever your self from your parents. Don't burn any bridges. You are smart enough to realize that there is a problem, so deal with it responsibly. Pissing your dad off because what he asks of you isn't in your nature isn't the answer. Bite the bullet, do what he says, internalize it and get rid if it in a healthy way. Try writing. It is the only way to salvage the relationship if it is really bad. Be the bigger person, and don’t do anything that you will regret.

I still have a few run ins with my mom, and it is evident that she likes my brother much more than me, but we have a very civil relationship, even if it is unsatisfying because of the differences in communication.
 

Darjur

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No, don't completely sever your self from your parents. Don't burn any bridges. You are smart enough to realize that there is a problem, so deal with it responsibly. Pissing your dad off because what he asks of you isn't in your nature isn't the answer. Bite the bullet, do what he says, internalize it and get rid if it in a healthy way. Try writing. It is the only way to salvage the relationship if it is really bad. Be the bigger person, and don’t do anything that you will regret.

I still have a few run ins with my mom, and it is evident that she likes my brother much more than me, but we have a very civil relationship, even if it is unsatisfying because of the differences in communication.

Choice A leads to misery and so does Choice B. It is a no win situation.

In that case it is best to look for a third option, in this case severing the string is what one would call a Choice C. Which leads to anger in the short run, but in the end you save the nerves of both of the parties.




If they can't get along, then they probably shouldn't. What you suggest basically leads to the "abused-wife" complex. A hope that something is going to change when nothing does which in the end leads one to a state of misery and depression.

Hope is the mother of fools for a reason.
 

Bougal

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Messages
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He can live with it and rise above it. I have done this for years, and I am a completely happy and healthy person. Yes, it would be easier to leave the relationship, but I know that I am strong enough to hold the burden, and I don't want the person that gave me this life in the first place feel regretful for a poor relationship, even if that is what she deserves. And I am not abuse wife or dog that has been kick too many times. I am not spiteful or weak. Maybe I'm an exception in the way that I turned out, but I have high expectations for the conduct of others.

I refuse to be a damaged person because I have a bad relationship in my life. Introspection is what saves you from being dysfunctional. Don't be melodramatic, and don't victimize yourself because that's what gives you the battered dog mentality.
 

Darjur

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He can live with it and rise above it. I have done this for years, and I am a completely happy and healthy person. Yes, it would be easier to leave the relationship, but I know that I am strong enough to hold the burden, and I don't want the person that gave me this life in the first place feel regretful for a poor relationship, even if that is what she deserves. And I am not abuse wife or battered dog. I am not spiteful or weak. Maybe I'm an exception in the way that I turned out, but I have high expectations for the conduct of others.

I refuse to be a damaged person because I have a bad relationship in my life. Introspection is what saves you from being dysfunctional. Don't be melodramatic, and don't victimize yourself because that's what gives you the battered dog mentality.

You forcefully try to sustain a relationship that you yourself have described as not satisfactory. You have a false hope in the relationship, thus you refuse to end it.

This is the definition of an "abused wife".
 

Hendo Barbarosa

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You forcefully try to sustain a relationship that you yourself have described as not satisfactory.

This is the definition of an "abused wife".

I want to get on the "quoting people who posted directly above" train

edit: sorry if it broke up the flow
 

Bougal

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708
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You are missing the point bud. I am not abused. I don't know how much real world experience you have, but you can burn bridges because someone yells at you, or makes you clean something. It's part of growing up and maturing. And if it were with someone I was dating I wouldn't even be in the relationship in the first place. You can't divorce your family, so you might as well do all you can to get along.
 
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