[INTP] Would an INTP ever say this...

[Jack Flak]

True. But you're not Ti-Ne, you're an INTP with dominant Intuition. Quite a few INTPs say that they're INTPs because they think of themselves as Ti dominant. Which throws everything off.

My position is that the INTPs who think they're Ti dominant are wrong, as I was years ago when I believed it.

Are you just teasing me, or are you serious?

I wouldn't say it.

I would say something like "Most people have no idea what they're talking about. X is the real cause of Y."

 

[Rainman]

Nah I wouldn't say that either, a chaotic atmosphere wouldn't prompt me to speak up more retreat and scold at the idiots in my own privacy.

 

[INTJMom]

No he'd never say that...













.....but he'd certainly think it

Ah.
Another INTP Brit.
Just what we need.
Welcome to the forum.



PS:
C. G. Jung said it.

 

[Jack Flak]

C. G. Jung said it.

He's seemed a bit INTJ to me.

 

[INTJMom]

My dry humour alarm went off with this topic....almost as it was a plan to make INTPs argue about the complex subject matter whilst the questioner sits back with a knowing smile watching chaos ensue.....but I'm sure it wasn't really.........was it?

No. Such thoughts never occur to me.

 

[bloodyfungus]

No. Such thoughts never occur to me.

Hehe

Actually one of my favourite past-times is winding up my INTJ friends........it's so easy to do.

And thanks for the welcome

 

[INTJMom]

He's seemed a bit INTJ to me.

I thought you INTPs had claimed him all to yourselves!

Though it's not fair to judge him later in life.
Our 3rd and 4th function can muddy the water quite a bit.

LOL! You made my day cause I thought so, too!

 

[Jack Flak]

I thought you INTPs had claimed him all to yourselves!

Though it's not fair to judge him later in life.
Our 3rd and 4th function can muddy the water quite a bit.

LOL! You made my day cause I thought so, too!

Some might have, but not I. He's too much of a wackjob for me to want him.

 

[INTJMom]

Hehe

Actually one of my favourite past-times is winding up my INTJ friends........it's so easy to do.

And thanks for the welcome

I believe you.
I know another Brit INTP who enjoys that same pastime. :steam:

 

[INTJMom]

Some might have, but not I. He's too much of a wackjob for me to want him.

Be honest Jack, doesn't everybody fit in that category?

 

[Jack Flak]

Be honest Jack, doesn't everybody fit in that category?

Oh, no.

 

[Mondo]

Ti craves order from its analysis, so yes.

 

[Accept]

I like the quote. It doesn't suggest there's a lack of tolerance for various points of view, but a need to find the unifying, big picture that creates such a chaotic multiplicity. There has to be a truth hidden somewhere within the differences of opinion or observation. It can be an enjoyable and entertaining search to find it, even when the effort ends in failure (or loss of interest.) It's what Einstein spent a lifetime trying to do with the universe. If he failed to achieve his final, self imposed challenge, at least he found those other truths that others could only speculate, and disagree about. Too often chaos is a clever way of saying "we haven't got a clue" and that can be offensive to some INTPs (based on other responses I've read here, it's not true for all of us.)

Maybe I like it because of the middle age bit.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

It's what Einstein spent a lifetime trying to do with the universe. If he failed to achieve his final, self imposed challenge, at least he found those other truths that others could only speculate, and disagree about.

Einstein was obsessed with field theory. That's what led him to derive the theory of relativity. Even on his death bed he was scribbling down incomplete field theory equations in the hope others could later use them. Field theory was his model of choice.

Too often chaos is a clever way of saying "we haven't got a clue" and that can be offensive to some INTPs (based on other responses I've read here, it's not true for all of us.)

The real world is chaotic. It would take an inordinate amount of effort to work with the real world as it is. We need to draw the line somewhere. That's where models come in handy. They allow us to make assumptions that may not be completely true, but get us close enough without sacrificing too much.

Take Black Scholes for example. It won the nobel prize for economics. The Black Scholes model for pricing options makes some assumptions about price, volatity, interest rates, etc. It is now well know that these assumptions don't hold water. Yet billions are made using this formula to price options every day.

 

[Prototype]

I can't start my day without morning sex and a strong coffee!

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I can't start my day without morning sex and a strong coffee!

Sex in the morning is good for enhancing performance throughout the day, for men at least, but what does it have to do this this thread?

 

[Prototype]

Sex in the morning is good for enhancing performance throughout the day, for men at least, but what does it have to do this this thread?

Absolutely nothing, in a normal context. But in terms of chaos and order, morning sex and strong coffee are relevant.

 

[Anentropic IxTx]

Perhaps; however, there are perks to chaos.

 

[Accept]

Lost: No argument on those points, but Einstein was still driven by a need for absolutes, or the big picture. This is the man who said "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details." I can only speculate that his distaste for chaos came from a belief that there are mysteries that create an illusion of chaos, simply because we lack awareness of some universal truth that makes sense of it. When he spoke of it at all, it wasn't in support. This is a man who believed it was possible to know everything, but probably understood how unlikely it was that we would achieve such an end result. For my part I dislike chaos theory when it is used as an excuse for what we don't yet understand, but even in the earlier post I never suggested that chaos is always used as an escape clause.

I am comfortable with the quote, perhaps you are not. What I know is that you made obvious points I have no reason to oppose. The world is chaotic, we require assumptions in many aspects of living (some work better than expected, some worse) and Einstein was obsessed with field theory. I think each of those statements are correct.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Lost: No argument on those points, but Einstein was still driven by a need for absolutes, or the big picture. This is the man who said "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details." I can only speculate that his distaste for chaos came from a belief that there are mysteries that create an illusion of chaos, simply because we lack awareness of some universal truth that makes sense of it. When he spoke of it at all, it wasn't in support. This is a man who believed it was possible to know everything, but probably understood how unlikely it was that we would achieve such an end result. For my part I dislike chaos theory when it is used as an excuse for what we don't yet understand, but even in the earlier post I never suggested that chaos is always used as an escape clause.

I am comfortable with the quote, perhaps you are not. What I know is that you made obvious points I have no reason to oppose. The world is chaotic, we require assumptions in many aspects of living (some work better than expected, some worse) and Einstein was obsessed with field theory. I think each of those statements are correct.

I agree. I'm not arguing. I'm debating, or trying.

EDIT: Maybe I don't completely agree. I'm trying to say chaos (not necessarily chaos theory) is a fact of life. If we want to make progress we have to deal with it somehow. I don't believe chaos is an excuse for something we don't understand. It's true that in the future we may well be better able to model the natural world close to the way it is with less abstraction than we use now. This has already happened. We are in a better position to more accurately model nature than we were even 20 / 30 years ago. That increased accuracy is a result of advances in technology and understanding. If you are saying chaos is just a name for something that is too complex to model directly at this moment in time, then I do agree.