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[NT] Is this honorable?

substitute

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Okay, so my brother set up an internet domain for my mother a few years ago, using his bank account to make the payment (and she gave him the money) and then on the same account, added another domain for me, because at the time there was a deal for existing customers to get additional domains at a reduced price (and I gave him the money). This was in December 2006.

After one year, the email account was choked with spam and I was no longer using it, so I told my brother to, when the time came, NOT renew my subscription.

The time came and he forgot, but I let it go, gave him the money, and was stuck with another year of a useless email account. During that year I often bitched about the stupid thing and how I have to keep logging into it to clear all the spam as it takes up all the space on my mom's account so she can't use her emails properly, or something, and how I couldn't wait to just close it and forget about it. I also bought my own domain under my own, separate account.

Around July last year, my brother copied me and mom in on an email giving us all the passwords and what-not to administrate the account, 'for our convenience', so that we could add email addresses and whatever ourselves. Knowning that this was the limit of our technological expertise. But he kept the financial administration (ie bills!) as going to his email address.

In August, mom stopped using her account as well, as she had her internet connection permanently disconnected and decided against using emails for reasons of her own. With all three of us at the table, we discussed how the accounts would still be live but we could just leave them to expire naturally in December, but if nobody was using them then there was no need for me to keep logging in to clear the spam.

So the last time I logged in or had anything to do with that account was in August 2008.

Skip to last week, when I visited my brother and he and his housemates had no food in the house, though he had invited me and my kids there to stay for a few days and was expecting us. None of them had any money on them, so I went to the supermarket and bought a few days' worth of food. We agreed to divide the bill equally between the people who would be eating the food, and they agreed to pay the money into my bank account when they had it.

But me and the kids only stayed there for one night because the following morning my daughter was ill and had to go home. They kept all the food though, enough now to last them over a week, and I didn't increase their share of the cost even though me and the kids had only had one meal out of it all.

Several days later, the housemates had paid in their shares to my account but my brother only paid in a quarter of his share. He said he had taken off the amount I owed him for the domain, and forwarded the bill from a few weeks ago.

I was surprised as I had completely forgotten about the account and at the time the bill came in, he didn't tell me a word about it or check with me, before renewing my domain. I didn't even know until I found out this evening that I'm stuck with it for another year.

The money he took off his share of the groceries, I had been relying on to get OUR groceries this week and I've now had to borrow money off my neighbour.

My brother holds that he's blameless because, as he says, he gave us the passwords and it was up to us to cancel the accounts if we wanted to. I think he should've said something to me when the bill came in, and I find it unlikely that he wouldn't have remembered my mom and I saying that we didn't want the accounts any more. And I also think it was dishonourable of him to keep it to himself and suddenly spring it on me to get out of paying me what he owed me.

Also, I looked up the web hosting people and it says the account is renewed automatically if there's no reply when they send out the bill. So in fact, I suspect that it was simply that he forgot to either cancel it or remind me and my mom, and is now using the 'it wasn't my responsibility' ruse to absolve himself of blame.

What do you think? Am I unreasonable to feel conned?

Sorry, I know that was a long post but thanks if you made it to the end!
 

Jack Flak

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Anyone who causes a post that long should be stabbed.

Alternatively, if he actually feels blameless, and it sounds like he does, let it go.
 

Synarch

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1. Cancel the account today. (How much money are we talking about here 20$?)
2. Forget everything else anyone could possibly owe you.
3. Don't do business with family.
 

Ardea

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1. Cancel the account today. (How much money are we talking about here 20$?)
2. Forget everything else anyone could possibly owe you.
3. Don't do business with family.

Quote for truth.
 

substitute

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yes, those are the approaches I'm taking you two, but I'm just curious as to whether I'm right to feel conned, that's all. you know, morality and values and all that is nebulous and alien to me enough as it is without an ENFP muddying the waters even more with spurious self-justification!

I'm over it, I'm not like brooding and angry or whatever, I just wonder... intellectually like.

FTR it's about 65 dollars, but the point is however much it is, it's a lot when you're broke and have kids to feed.
 

Synarch

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yes, those are the approaches I'm taking you two, but I'm just curious as to whether I'm right to feel conned, that's all. you know, morality and values and all that is nebulous and alien to me enough as it is without an ENFP muddying the waters even more with spurious self-justification!

I'm over it, I'm not like brooding and angry or whatever, I just wonder... intellectually like.

Rule of thumb: it takes two to tango.
 

INA

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No, it is not honorable. Your brother's a shithead, but you knew that. Certainly it wasn't a small fortune, though. Consider it a lesson learned and have nothing to do with him involving money.
 

substitute

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Rule of thumb: it takes two to tango.

well duh, of course it does. I mean for someone to con someone else, they need someone else to con!

Geez, was that supposed to be useful? :laugh:
 

Moiety

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Wth! You should confront him and ask why he didn't think of phoning you or your mother at the time of the automatic renewal.

As for family business I disagree with Synarch. If I can't trust my core family with money then I can't trust banks either. That's how I see things though and I don't know how close you are with your brother.


And what did you say about ENFP again?
 

Synarch

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well duh, of course it does. I mean for someone to con someone else, they need someone else to con!

Geez, was that supposed to be useful? :laugh:

I just mean blame is a difficult thing. You are seeing from your perspective. Your brother may have an equally valid yet completely different perspective, ergo it is rather pointless to speculate as we have trouble seeing ourselves at a remove.
 

substitute

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No, it is not honorable. Your brother's a shithead, but you knew that. Certainly it wasn't a small fortune, though. Consider it a lesson learned and have nothing to do with him involving money.

Yeah, with him everyone says they feel kinda like they're making a pact with the devil - you can rely on him to fulfill his part of the bargain, but he'll be as creative about it as possible whilst adhering to the 'letter' of it so you come off the worse but can't get at him for it :steam:
 

substitute

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I just mean blame is a difficult thing. You are seeing from your perspective. Your brother may have an equally valid yet completely different perspective, ergo it is rather pointless to speculate as we have trouble seeing ourselves at a remove.

well yeah duh again, that's why I want to discuss it with unbiased parties! :rolleyes:

Wth! You should confront him and ask why he didn't think of phoning you or your mother at the time of the automatic renewal.

As for family business I disagree with Synarch. If I can't trust my core family with money then I can't trust banks either. That's how I see things though and I don't know how close you are with your brother.

Yeah, that's a point...


And what did you say about ENFP again?

Ha, just this specific one :D
 

INA

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Yeah, with him everyone says they feel kinda like they're making a pact with the devil - you can rely on him to fulfill his part of the bargain, but he'll be as creative about it as possible whilst adhering to the 'letter' of it so you come off the worse but can't get at him for it :steam:
Is he in the legal profession?
well yeah duh again, that's why I want to discuss it with unbiased parties! :rolleyes:

Yup, moral relativism run amok is tiresome.
 

Synarch

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well yeah duh again, that's why I want to discuss it with unbiased parties! :rolleyes:

Yes, but all we can do is weigh in on your partial reportage of events. See? I mean what you want to hear is that you are right and your brother is wrong, right? Done! Your brother sucks!

(Is he also ENTP?)
 

substitute

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Yes, but all we can do is weigh in on your partial reportage of events. See? I mean what you want to hear is that you are right and your brother is wrong, right? Done! Your brother sucks!

(Is he also ENTP?)

Hey, don't be telling me what I think dude! No, of course whilst it doesn't HURT for me to be agreed with, that doesn't mean it's what I WANT. If I wanted that, I'd talk to one of the many people who he's conned before and who hate him. There's ample bitching opportunity there, but I chose to give a fact based report to uninvolved parties. I hope you can see that's me trying to be objective!

No, he's an ENFP.
 

Moiety

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Yes, but all we can do is weigh in on your partial reportage of events. See? I mean what you want to hear is that you are right and your brother is wrong, right? Done! Your brother sucks!

(Is he also ENTP?)

So you don't think his brother had a moral obligation to inform Substitute and his mom when the bill arrived? If it was a stranger or acquaintance it would be one thing but...

I'd be happy with a "I forgot" response but denying all responsibility seems kinda cheap. Seeing as how he's my brother after all.
 

Synarch

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So you don't think his brother had a moral obligation to inform Substitute and his mom when the bill arrived? If it was a stranger or acquaintance it would be one thing but...

I'd be happy with a "I forgot" response but denying all responsibility seems kinda cheap. Specially if it were my brother.

Just don't get him a Christmas / Birthday gift and call it a day. How much money are we talking here? A domain name is less than ten bucks.
 

Moiety

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Just don't get him a Christmas / Birthday gift and call it a day. How much money are we talking here? A domain name is less than ten bucks.

Matter of principle from where I'm standing. Nothing to do with practicality.
 

substitute

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Synarch I already answered that it's about 65 dollars. It wasn't just the domain name, I don't know all the technical terms but it had a load of extras on it. And 65 bucks is a lot when you're broke and have kids to feed.

And Sytpg that's what I'm trying to get at, I sense there's a principle here that's been violated, but I'm not much good with that sorta thing cos it tends to imply values, and since I'm totally out of touch with mine if I even have any, I can't really put my finger on it! lol The fact that usually when I feel abused in any way like that, I usually dismiss it as emotional nonsense has, I think, led to me accepting being swindled in the past when perhaps I should've fought it... I'm just so crap at figuring out who's in the right and wrong in a situation that I daren't go in guns blazing unless I feel sure I'm justified in doing so. And since I never feel in touch with my values or emotions enough to really know whether any of my feelings are justified... ugh!!

That's how I tend to feel a lot with him when he does this sort of thing - that even a lame apology would be less offensive than just refusing to admit any fault.
 

Synarch

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Matter of principle from where I'm standing. Nothing to do with practicality.

Principle often masks hurt feelings. People feel less justified talking about matters of feeling, whereas matters of principle are considered more lofty subjects of conversation.

This is why people get things in writing! It's like the game of telephone. I think I am saying one thing and you think you are hearing another. Language is so limited. Spell out the expectations and be very clear. Sounds like this situation was not very clear from the get go. Your brother may be an ass, but it is certainly not clear to me without making some assumptions.
 
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