[INTP] I think Feelings are important. And I'm an INTP

[Cypocalypse]

I don't know if this is a common scenario among INTPs but I'm more like xNxP. Introversion and Extraversion side are almost dead even, so as the F and T.

Enneagram test that I took shows that I'm 4w5, and the cognitive processes test that I took reveals a hierarchy in this order: Ti>Ne>Fi or was that Ti>Fi>Ne.

So I have this picture that I have a strong Ne with Ti and Fi beating the crap out of each other in a race for supremacy or something, with my Te being average and my Fe negligible.

I saw some INTP members displaying their cognitive processes hierarchy and their Te usually scores high, usually 3rd, with Ti and Ne being the obvious strongest traits.

I was wondering, I thought most INTPs hate Te as much as any other INTP. Te makes one do the dirty work and its empiricist J fuction removes the creativity of Ne but anyway....

What do you INTPs think of Fi? Are your sentiments in opposition with your sense of logic. I care less with the sentiments of others (Fe), but being individualist, I think my Fi catches up with my Ti and I have this sense that Fi and Ti need not be mutually exclusive.

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Aren't the two, in more ways than one, aligned? Or, do you as an INTP try to reconcile the two if they appear in opposition with each other?

 

[Typology]

 

[Risen]

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Aren't the two, in more ways than one, aligned? Or, do you as an INTP try to reconcile the two if they appear in opposition with each other?

I'm not too well versed in the nitty gritty intricate details of the functions (to be remedied soon with some reading ), but I can follow what you're saying well enough.

If Fi has much to do with morality and ethics, then I'd say this; my logic always comes first and foremost in deciding how I should feel, think, and operate within the outside world. When I have logically concluded that I am faced with an issue that I have analyzed to be beyond a definite logical order, or lacking any absolutes, then I will rely on forming my own convictions and framing my integrity upon what I believe is right, as I see fit. I will stand by those convictions with utmost tenacity, as unwavering as I can possibly be, unless/until my thinking/logic dictates that there needs to be a change. Since thinking is always primary for me, above my own moral standards, I like to think the balance between logical analysis and the strength of my own convictions provides a balance through which I can move forward in life not holding on to what I believe in with an unhealthy grip; not refusing to budge even in the face of greater evidence showing that my beliefs would somehow attain more solidity if changed. The strength in my convictions, I think, also assures that I am not a slave to a robotic logical process that often times cannot directly tackle a great litany of social issues. Morality and ethics are such issues that I would analyze as not having any objective foundation beyond the desires, wishes, and beliefs of any particular group of people, and are thus not subject an all encompassing form of logic that would dictate "such and such is always wrong/right because these factors will always be present, and will always result in this effect, to be perceived the same way universally." In the absence of such a logical structure that can encompass the entire issue with an objective framework, I believe the need for forming morals and ethics independent of systems of logic, of a subjective "feeling" is necessary.

 

[Darjur]

I don't know if this is a common scenario among INTPs but I'm more like xNxP. Introversion and Extraversion side are almost dead even, so as the F and T.

Enneagram test that I took shows that I'm 4w5, and the cognitive processes test that I took reveals a hierarchy in this order: Ti>Ne>Fi or was that Ti>Fi>Ne.

So I have this picture that I have a strong Ne with Ti and Fi beating the crap out of each other in a race for supremacy or something, with my Te being average and my Fe negligible.

I saw some INTP members displaying their cognitive processes hierarchy and their Te usually scores high, usually 3rd, with Ti and Ne being the obvious strongest traits.

I was wondering, I thought most INTPs hate Te as much as any other INTP. Te makes one do the dirty work and its empiricist J fuction removes the creativity of Ne but anyway....

What do you INTPs think of Fi? Are your sentiments in opposition with your sense of logic. I care less with the sentiments of others (Fe), but being individualist, I think my Fi catches up with my Ti and I have this sense that Fi and Ti need not be mutually exclusive.

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Aren't the two, in more ways than one, aligned? Or, do you as an INTP try to reconcile the two if they appear in opposition with each other?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fi a shadow function of an INTP?

And to me, yes, I consider Ti and Fi as being incompatible.

 

[Jack Flak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fi a shadow function of an INTP?

I would say it in my own words, derived from my own calculation, but I'll just quote Jung instead. Note that this isn't about INTPs specifically, nor should it be, nor should this thread, if one wants to get to the grit of the issue.

"A grouping of the unconscious functions also takes place in accordance with the relationship of the conscious functions. Thus, for instance, an unconscious intuitive feeling attitude may correspond with a conscious practical intellect, whereby the function of feeling suffers a relatively stronger inhibition than intuition. This peculiarity, however, is of interest only for one who is concerned with the practical psychological treatment of such cases. But for such a man it is important to know about it. For I have frequently observed the way in which a physician, in the case for instance of an exclusively intellectual subject, will do his utmost to develop the feeling function directly out of the unconscious. This attempt must always come to grief, since it involves too great a violation of the conscious standpoint. Should such a violation succeed, there ensues a really compulsive dependence of the patient upon the physician, a 'transference' which can be amputated only by brutality, because such a violation robs the patient of a standpoint -- his physician becomes his standpoint. But the approach to the unconscious and to the most repressed function is disclosed, as it were, of itself, and with more adequate protection of the conscious standpoint, when the way of development is via the secondary function-thus in the case of a rational type by way of the irrational function. For this lends the conscious standpoint such a range and prospect over what is possible and imminent that consciousness gains an adequate protection against the destructive effect of the unconscious. Conversely, an irrational type demands a stronger development of the rational auxiliary function [p. 517] represented in consciousness, in order to be sufficiently prepared to receive the impact of the unconscious.

The unconscious functions are in an archaic, animal state. Their symbolical appearances in dreams and phantasies usually represent the battle or coming encounter of two animals or monsters."

 

[wildcat]

I don't know if this is a common scenario among INTPs but I'm more like xNxP. Introversion and Extraversion side are almost dead even, so as the F and T.

Enneagram test that I took shows that I'm 4w5, and the cognitive processes test that I took reveals a hierarchy in this order: Ti>Ne>Fi or was that Ti>Fi>Ne.

So I have this picture that I have a strong Ne with Ti and Fi beating the crap out of each other in a race for supremacy or something, with my Te being average and my Fe negligible.

I saw some INTP members displaying their cognitive processes hierarchy and their Te usually scores high, usually 3rd, with Ti and Ne being the obvious strongest traits.

I was wondering, I thought most INTPs hate Te as much as any other INTP. Te makes one do the dirty work and its empiricist J fuction removes the creativity of Ne but anyway....

What do you INTPs think of Fi? Are your sentiments in opposition with your sense of logic. I care less with the sentiments of others (Fe), but being individualist, I think my Fi catches up with my Ti and I have this sense that Fi and Ti need not be mutually exclusive.

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Aren't the two, in more ways than one, aligned? Or, do you as an INTP try to reconcile the two if they appear in opposition with each other?

Order is of the subject.
The object does not order.

The end is the other side of the beginning.
Side does not object.

The middle is the side of the other side.
Only if you do not look.

 

[SUPER]

I think feelings are overrated and slightly above useless.

 

[Lexlike]

I guess MBTi forgets that Ti and Fi is accually really united functions more or less...If we talk about Feelings we think about emotions, but this is not Fi....
Imo Ti and Fi are extremly linked functions,as their differences are minor compared to their equalities.

 

[Totenkindly]

I guess MBTi forgets that Ti and Fi is accually really united functions more or less...If we talk about Feelings we think about emotions, but this is not Fi....

Yes. There's an indirect connection because emotions seem to help drive/implement values (think of the movie/non-historical William Wallace -- values and deep emotion are directly linked), while Thinking people tend to remove themselves (depersonalize) a situation to reduce it to a constant set of rules apart from themselves (think of the cinematic Elizabeth as portrayed by Cate Blanchett... her T comes off as cold). But Fi is not emotions, we all have emotions.

Imo Ti and Fi are extremly linked functions,as their differences are minor compared to their equalities.

Yes, both are internalized judging functions. They do the same things; they just use different criteria for their judging. It's rather like the "structure/process" tree is the same sort of thing, but the labels for the yes/no forks are different.

 

[Athenian200]

And I think that if you really think this, you're probably not an INTP. So there. Problem solved, no need to act as if Ti and Fi can be reconciled. Fi is a passionate, living, and alarmingly chaotic and impulsive thing. Ti is a dispassionate, dead, intricately ordered, and predictable machine.

Don't mistake this for a bias towards Fi... Fi is actually a lot scarier than Ti, although they're both kind of frightening in their own way.

In all seriousness, though, there's very little left you can say to question or affirm someone's self-typing once they throw out functional order. It's like someone taking away the keyboard and then asking you to write something on the computer. Or at least removing all the labels from the keys, and then mapping them to random locations.

 

[Kaizer]

Yes. There's an indirect connection because emotions seem to help drive/implement values (think of the movie/non-historical William Wallace -- values and deep emotion are directly linked), while Thinking people tend to remove themselves (depersonalize) a situation to reduce it to a constant set of rules apart from themselves (think of the cinematic Elizabeth as portrayed by Cate Blanchett... her T comes off as cold). But Fi is not emotions, we all have emotions.



Yes, both are internalized judging functions. They do the same things; they just use different criteria for their judging. It's rather like the "structure/process" tree is the same sort of thing, but the labels for the yes/no forks are different.

Courtesy MacGuffin I think : Hearts & Minds - The Boston Globe

 

[Amargith]

loved the article

 

[Salomé]

What do you INTPs think of Fi? Are your sentiments in opposition with your sense of logic. I care less with the sentiments of others (Fe), but being individualist, I think my Fi catches up with my Ti and I have this sense that Fi and Ti need not be mutually exclusive.

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Aren't the two, in more ways than one, aligned? Or, do you as an INTP try to reconcile the two if they appear in opposition with each other?

They might be aligned in well-balanced people, but they are unlikely to be equally well-developed.

The only way I might see this working is if you make decisions using Fi, but then rationalize with Ti. Which isn't really using Ti properly.

Occasionally, you might come to the same decision using either function, but that would be coincidental, I'd have thought.

Personally, I think my Fi is mostly unconscious. I'm seldom aware of it at the decision-making stage. I'm often only too aware of it afterward though - when I've made the "wrong" decision. I will usually experience this as a mood or physiological disturbance, rather than a cognitive process. If I am conscious of a personal value judgement on a matter, I will incorporate that into the logical criteria I use to make a decision. For example - I won't work with/for organisations that use animals in experiments. This is logical to me, since it violates a deeply held principle.

I think a problem with being Ti-dom is that it can be very difficult to come to a decision - because many things cannot have an relative value assigned based purely on logical reasoning i.e. several outcomes may be equally favourable.

I'd be interested to hear how your decision-making process operates.

 

[JocktheMotie]

I think you're mixing up feelings with functions. I think feelings are important. Do I think mine are particularly important? Sometimes. I want to be happy. I want to have fun, I want to enjoy what I do today, I want to make my girlfriend happy, etc. Those are all objectives that inherently have emotional weight behind them. But how do I go about making those things happen? Mostly through rational thought, and using my Ne-Ti functions to operate my decision making.

We all have feelings, it's just our type that determines how we express them, perceive them in other people, or what we do with them. I think that's a distinction some NTs grapple with. And I do find them important, but maybe not in a way an NF or other feeler does. For me, other peoples' feelings are important in that they're a way for me to be able to make them happy if I want to, sad if I want to, etc. The beauty of emotions is that once you gain a general understanding of how they work in certain people they're an easy thing to control in your favor, and sometimes they don't even make sense in how they work which is an advantage and disadvantage at the same time. They're not necessarily important to my decision making and I may be oblivious to others' feelings at times and think they shouldn't really be part of certain decisions, but dismissing the importance of emotions is foolish in the sense that they're part of most peoples' lives in such an ingrained way.

 

[EcK]

Don't listen to him, he's just trying to get all the NF chicks.

 

[Lady_X]

shut up eck! that was pretty good.

 

[Lady_X]

hehe...i was just kidding eck.

 

[EcK]

hehe...i was just kidding eck.

You will beg for my pardon !

 

[the soulless one]

I personally am more surprised to come across INTPs that don't value feelings than vice-versa. Yes, they are very important...especially since I don't feel a whole lot in the feeling department.

Most INTPs seem to be 5w4s as well and a hidden emotionality seems to be one of the characteristics of that type. Not weird at all.

 

[Ezion]

The way I see it
Fi - sense of morality/ethics
Ti - sense of logic

Or perhaps you can use your logic to reason that if everyone follows some baseline morality/ethics, we all end up better off for it ("don't kill", for instance).

Also, if you are referring to feelings as in desire, it is important to cater to them to a degree. Your feelings impact your body, which impacts your mind, which impacts your feelings. Seeing as they are all connected and part of the same entity, one being too imbalanced will impact the others. Therefore, if you desire to remain somewhat object and possess full use of your cognitive capacities, it is important to consider both emotional and physical factors in your decisions.