[INTJ] INTJs & Affection

[soleil]

LOL we are just suckers for them right...

Girl, this is the story of my life! Just endless.... I'm sure you understand that more than anyone. Lol, people think I'm really spacey & out there. Ah well.

 

[Wild horses]

Yes I know... I do know *sigh* I hate it... it's like a restlessness inside of me that tries to hijack almost everything I do

 

[Wild horses]

Maybe this explains the love of ISTJs they have a stability that I just dont have... Just be careful with a situation such as this that you don't loose interest when the challenge is gone...Do you kow what I mean Soleil?

 

[Lady_X]

ughh...me too wild!! we're so similar it's crazy!!

 

[Wild horses]

We're always on the same page Erina...

 

[soleil]

Maybe this explains the love of ISTJs they have a stability that I just dont have... Just be careful with a situation such as this that you don't loose interest when the challenge is gone...Do you kow what I mean Soleil?

Why do you think I was involved with an ISTJ for so long. Longest relationship I've had. A great man. I know what you mean. It's very hard to find someone who you feel stimulated by in all the ways you need. One thing I learned is that I need to be intellectually stimulated. It's a must.

 

[Uytuun]

When I speak of love, I speak of the the third, and final stage of love as defined by some (most likely NT) social scientist:

1. Lust
2. Romantic obsession
3. Attachment

From this INTJ's point of view, "love at first sight" is absurd because how in the world can I love someone if I know nothing about them? I might be immensely attracted to them in a physical sense, but those things are fleeting. Before I can make a lifelong commitment and experience someone else's utility as my own (i.e. what's good for them is good for me), I first have to know the person.

In my experience there is also instant attraction that includes other aspects besides the physical and in which the person as a whole, the entire vibe becomes the attraction.

The love as defined by some social scientist model does not seem to neatly apply in such a situation.

Commitment is a different thing altogether.

 

[Lady_X]

^^^ ughh...me too!! but i've realized it isn't enough just to be book smart...you gotta have ideas...and be witty and funny about it.

 

[soleil]

^^^ ughh...me too!! but i've realized it isn't enough just to be book smart...you gotta have ideas...and be witty and funny about it.

When I was younger, I'd give anyone the chance to possibly be more than friends. I mean anyone, lol. Often, there was absolutely nothing there (99.9% of time). I felt bad so, I forced myself to give it a try. I tried to look past everything, you know not be "judgemental". I learned to say no. Best thing I could of done. Now, I do what I want & speak my mind. Is this common amongst ENFPs or is it just me? LOL.

Oh, yeah I need me a clever guy. It's very necessary.

 

[TPol]

You made a lot of good points. You are right on. I already accepted that I will not get any emotional support from him (unless he decides to & I return the same back).

At least you put the caveat on there in parentheses. INTJs are perfectly capable of giving emotional support. And, when they do, it is a beautiful gesture. It will be less words and more action, though. And, listening and trying to come up with solutions for you, if he cares about you.

It's just not possible or natural for him.

Have you spent enough time with him to know this about him for certain?

My question is: what am I supposed to say when he asks what's on my mind & it's emotion-related?

Tell him. He wouldn't ask if he didn't want to know. He probably realizes it is a question that may get an emotional answer. Hubby doesn't ask such questions to drag a person's heart out there to pick it apart. When he asks, it is a pre-meditated gesture to let the person know he cares.

Do I lie or just keep it brief?

Lie and he'll lose respect for you. My INTJ can ferret out the truth quickly and with precision. If anyone lies to him, he'll try to hone in on their motive (and he's good at that). Depending on the motive and how much time and emotional energy he's already invested in the relationship, he'll either start interrogating or walk away.

For hubby, the more concise I can be, the better he feels. Well, unless we're playing around and trying to evade each other for some reason. Then, he's in his element as we interrogate and cross-examine each other. Still haven't found the dang Christmas present, even though he's flaunting the fact that he's "hidden it in plain sight." Evil man.

He is always asking & I noticed I change the subject to avoid any discomfort for him & myself.

Kinda sounds to me like you're clamming up as much as you're accusing him of doing. Do you want him to bring out the interrogation equipment?

If anything, I would like to pick his brain.

So, do it. Write out a set of clear, straight-forward questions ("real" ones intermingled with playful ones keeps the mood lighter and more palatable for you both, probably), and start asking them. From what I'm seeing, you peoples are a pretty playful breed, so come at him with some humor. What's he gonna do? Take away your birthday?

If he's not an emotional guy, why when I am emotionally distant, he tries to get me to go there?

Because he cares about you. He wants to learn about you. He wants to know what makes you tick. If something is bothering you, he wants you to know he's there to listen (and probably give solutions; and that's caring about you, too). He wants to bring out his magnifying lens and see if you sizzle in the sun.

If he's not open emotionally, why should I? I give him exactly what I feel he gives me. It's only fair.

It is for this reason that I said all of what I did earlier. If you're going to come at him about not being emotionally open to you, he's going to close up. I'd do the same thing. Don't over-complicate things before their time. If you're friends now, don't treat him any different than you would any of your other friends.

One of you is going to have to give in and take down your mask sometime or this isn't going to work, even as a friendship. It took me a year and a half of dating hubby before I said "I love you" to him. He didn't say it to me until after we were already married for several months. I express things in words much more than he does, but still not as much as I express love with actions. He hardly ever says it in words, but his actions speak volumes every day. I knew/know he loved me without his ever having to say it.

Read him. Watch him. You be there for him as his friend. If you like him, show him. It really is that simple.

I am not willing to give my soul to someone who won't for me.

What action or words are you wanting from him in order for you to know when he "gives you his soul?"

I don't even consider what I have given him that much. I have feelings, but I have to play a certain role.

So, play the role of friend. If there's been no talk of dating only each other, what is keeping you from dating others? If you're reserving yourself for him, perhaps you're more committed than you're letting yourself believe. Is he dating others? Have you asked?

This situation seems hopeless because I do not ever pursue anyone.

Maybe it is time to start. He's human. If you're afraid to approach him, then you're giving him a lot of power in your life....probably without his having the foggiest notion you're doing it. If you're not giving him feedback, what is he supposed to do?

Oh and verbal affection...well, it is nice to hear it, but if a person says it too much it looks pretty fake. Get the idea? So I'd rather hear it rare, but coming really from the deepest bottom of the heart than like...every day for 10 times or whatever.

Both hubby and I are the same way. Better make it sincere, specific, and rare in order for it to count as one of those compliments that keeps me afloat. Otherwise, it's only so much fluff.

I see your point. Deep inside, I know he cares for me. I just want to know when the hell it's going to move forward? Yes or no, maybe. Okay, is that so wrong of me? When can we have a concrete, direct conversation? Even if it's once in life, when???? Please don't act like INTJ's are easy to work with! I have really tried (in my own way) & want to know how to take it to the next level. Btw, I don't want a rose & love letter...I'll pass. :rolli:

Bolded: Are you throwing a flower petal in front of a buffalo here? INTJs don't read minds, even though they like to make you think they can. Next time you see each other (and maybe you should arrange this), go somewhere quiet and relaxing together. Then, just sit there and exist in one spot together for a while. No pressure to talk serious or go deep into discussions. If he asks a question, answer it as honestly and kindly as you can without fretting over whether it'll blow up the relationship. If it does, it does. So be it. Wouldn't you rather it happen now than after you've made a commitment to each other?

Forget about your goal to be "more logical". It won't do you any good to try to be someone you are not. Just try to understand INTJ's thought process. That's what MBTI is all about anyway.

He is interested in you, that much is obvious. But INTJs do not like to make promises they cannot keep, especially when it comes to something as sensitive as a romantic relationship. As stated before by other INTJs here, we express our affection through actions a lot more than words. So if you are waiting for the words, you won't hear them, not for a long while anyway.

There's wisdom in those words. Remember how long it took me to tell hubby I loved him? Remember how long it took him to say it back? I still say it more often than he does, but he expresses it way more often in actions than I do. Read the actions. Listen to the gestures. He's "speaking" loud enough for US to hear him, girl!

INTJs become interested, then they make gradual steps toward getting closer to a person, then as they find out more about the person they either start falling in love, or they move on.

The only way for you to get an accurate answer is to spend enough time with him where you can both see whether this is worth taking to another level.

That's all there is to it.

Exactly! I envy you INTJs and your ability to say it so briefly and elegantly. Here I am with another big post. Sorry, gang. This'll be my last huge one on this thread.

 

[Edgar]

In my experience there is also instant attraction that includes other aspects besides the physical and in which the person as a whole, the entire vibe becomes the attraction.

The love as defined by some social scientist model does not seem to neatly apply in such a situation.

Commitment is a different thing altogether.

To me love = commitment.

Not sure how you can separate the two.

 

[Wild horses]

love is a commitment??? that's a little depressing... if someone decides to stay with me doens't mean they love me just means they have stamina surely

 

[Edgar]

Exactly! I envy you INTJs and your ability to say it so briefly and elegantly. Here I am with another big post. Sorry, gang. This'll be my last huge one on this thread.

I for one didn't mind your long post.




Probably because I skipped right toward the compliment part.

 

[Edgar]

love is a commitment??? that's a little depressing... if someone decides to stay with me doens't mean they love me just means they have stamina surely

Hmm, I guess I should have phrased it better.

There is more to love than a mere commitment, but it's certainly an indispensable part of it.

 

[Wild horses]

really.... you can't have love without a commitment... I certainly do agree though that being madly in love and being committed is not very far apart

 

[TPol]

I for one didn't mind your long post.



Probably because I skipped right toward the compliment part.

LOL. I sure love INTJs. They make me smile. I'm gonna run around the forum and start collecting every one of 'em!

 

[Uytuun]

To me love = commitment.

Not sure how you can separate the two.

I'm poetically inclined.

No, I can't say that it works like that for me.

Love is a Sturm-und Drang like cocktail of the elements you've mentioned above, it's a flame that may grow bigger and smaller, but one that requires a spark in order to exist. Not a commitment (although I'd have to know what exactly you mean by this). Which may or may not follow from the flame.

 

[West]

but one that requires a spark in order to exist.

The spark can be analogous to lust. It's just one of the many components that leads to love.

EDIT: Let me rephrase. Love can't be attributed to one "ingredient". There is no real guideline. When the right ingredients are added, a synthesis occurs.

 

[Amargith]

Grin, I enjoyed the last couple of pages of this thread. I'm dating an INTJ myself and I so recognize this *grin*

And, hard as it is, I have to agree with Edgar on just about anything he said. One question though Edgar...how is it that you INTJ's are able to handle our unicorns and rainbows in all your sarcasm and cyniscism??

 

[Edgar]

Grin, I enjoyed the last couple of pages of this thread. I'm dating an INTJ myself and I so recognize this *grin*

And, hard as it is, I have to agree with Edgar on just about anything he said. One question though Edgar...how is it that you INTJ's are able to handle our unicorns and rainbows in all their sarcasm and cyniscism??

An INTJ is an odd creature: a cross between a gruffy badger (cynic) and Pegasus (visionary).

We don't get to use the visionary part as often as we like, and that's where the ENFPs come in.