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  1. #1
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    Default Do you find that things you see as just "banter" are offensive to others?

    I edited in haste but essentially I was asking: I'm an ENTP, I'm very comfortable with office banter and I'm in a banter-intensive workplace, and as a female I think I'm accepted as "one of the guys".. but I'm asking if I (even without referenece to gender) have banter with people, they laugh and accept it. How much is the burden on the "other person" to say they are uncomforable rather than to me to censor what I say.

    I've been a member of this team for ~ 10 months.
    Last edited by seventyeightist; 05-21-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #2
    ∂ιѕﻭяα¢є∂ ¢σѕмσηαυт Luminous's Avatar
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    You're asking mostly men to tell you if you're making them uncomfortable by insulting them? In an environment where they are probably expected and it's encouraged for men to be unemotional. See the incongruity here?

    Also... they aren't responsible for your actions. It isn't their responsibility to tell you to stop... if you think you are bothering them, I'd back off. If you want to ask, do it privately. Maybe observe how they regularly interact with each other, without you, to get a sense of what the company culture is like.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by seventyeightist View Post
    So as an ENTP I work in an office environment, in general once I am familiar with the people in a team I join, I quickly find I generate "banter" and mild insults (nothing relating to personal characteristics like gender, religion, body size etc and nothing I would consider as 'bullying') and I've said many times to the people I work with, something like "sorry! You must say if you're bothered by that" and they laugh it off. Mostly "riffing" on something someone said (e.g. "oh sorry you woke me up") but then latching on to it (e.g. "Jake? Oh are you awake? Sorry I assumed you were hibernating")

    How much is the onus on the 'other employee' rather than myself to tone it down? To say that they feel uncomforable if I've already asked?

    Is it possible that I come off as 'intimidating' although I don't intend to in any way? I'm female in a male dominated environment, shorter than most of the men, and actually have much more of a need to prove myself.
    The difference between banter and insults is significant.

    You probably overdo it, and they most likely don't see you as "intimidating" but obnoxious and annoying.

    Cracking a joke every once in a while is fine but it quickly becomes tiring if you pull the same shenanigans over and over again.
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    Moving forward, put aside all unnecessary preconceptions, eliminate all biases, analyze all the facts without letting external influences cloud your better judgement and put together a coherent picture of the truth like a jigsaw puzzle, you have the pieces you need, the only thing left to do is to learn how to put them together properly.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about whatever it is you're worrying about. The men can take your wacky shit, no doubt.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  5. #5

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    Men usually eat this crap up. It’s constantly encouraged to give each other a hard time. This is why I’d prefer to work alone. No banter, no guessing someone’s intent. Passive aggressive people love to hide behind the shield of playful banter. I abhor this practice. I’ve made it quite clear that if I’m giving someone a ‘hard time’ it’s because I’ve known them for a considerable amount of time and it’s completely understood that it’s in good humor. Every one else gets my default cool politeness. Or you genuinely receive my contempt. No ambiguity is involved.

    Enjoy the pointless ribbing. Most guys do. Either that or they play the game because it’s expected of them.

  6. #6
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    Oh if I give them a "hard time" with 'playful banter' it isn't passive aggressive or anything. I just have a fairly short "get to know people" lead time!

    Maybe I should start just speaking my mind at every opportunity... it's a constant struggle not to :-) (but I'm also well-adjusted to office life).

    Also I hate anything "passive aggressive" and my usual strategy with any passive-aggressive comment is to take it exactly at face value and respond accordingly (e.g. I had to do x, y, and z because no one else was going to do it -- Sucks to be you! I hope they're paying you overtime..!)

    Yeah I'm admittedly a bit of a jerk.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seventyeightist View Post
    I had to do x, y, and z because no one else was going to do it -- Sucks to be you! I hope they're paying you overtime..!

    Yeah I'm admittedly a bit of a jerk.

    To solve a problem, first realize one exists. Good for you, you're on your way.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
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  8. #8
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    It sounds like you crossed the line and you're searching for someone to validate your opinion that their reaction "is on them" because it's easier to do that than to question your own personal code of ethics. If you pushed it too far, you should apologize and grow, which is the less scary sounding synonym of change.

    Also... newsflash: There is no "one of the guys" anymore. I also used to consider myself to be "different" than "most" women. I think if you truly look around, you'll find most women have a strength about them that breaks the 1950s stereotype of girly-girl. More importantly, the desire to be "not like other women" comes from a place of insecurity in your own femininity, which everyone regardless of gender possesses to some degree. Conversely, if it's The Guys' issue that you need to be accepted into their group because you lack a dangling extension of cells between your legs, then I still think you should turn around and look within yourself for being willing (and seemingly eager) to run in the He vs She race.

    People are people.
    Don't say shitty things.
    Offensive jokes don't get you extra cool points.
    Your seniority never offsets crappy behavior.
    End of story.
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    And from here on out, I'm not gonna feel anything new.
    Just lesser versions of what I've already felt.”


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