[NF] Plight of the NF male.

[aufs klo]

looks aren't that important to me, but i guess in terms of "idealism", I really have a type. i can be really picky about personality, though, and if someone doesn't meet that standard, i just don't find them attractive that way.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

This is a thread for everyone to share what sucks and or rocks for or about the NF male.

I will start with some of the shitty stories.

In the real world, it sucks to have high N because I would rather be gang raped in prison (Dramatization) than watch the whole of NFL Fox Sunday with the guys. I don't mind playing football, I do enjoy it, but watching it, holy shit! I much rather have a nice intellectual conversation with someone than play football also. This is how we are alienated from 50+% of the guys already.

It also sucks to have high F, and be open about it, because I get to hear girl after girl bitch to me about guys not being sensitive and all that crap, yet they always go off with another douchebag who wines and dines them for no other reason than to use them as a sperm receptacle. Well hell, I am tired of being your straight friend you that you treat like your gay friend (Dramatization). It's like a company that interviews you for a position, after they look at your stats they tell you how awsome you are and just because you are so awsome and fit everything they are looking for, they won't hire you. What they will do is hire some one much less qualified, and when he quits on them and leaves them in the shitter, they will call you and tell you how much of a douche the person they hired was. Still they will then hire someone less qualified than you again, and tell you all about them, until he screws them over, and the cycle repeats.

I am not saying this happened to me, but man, it must suck to be an NF male.

Well, if you got any negatives/positives about/for the NF male, let it rip.

I know this thread is super old, and I haven't read the whole thing yet... but let me just say, I guffawed 3 or 4 times whilst reading this delicious diatribe. Kudos Angry Ayrab.

And before I plunge into the rest of these posts, let me just say that I have often thought that in some ways it must suck to be an NF male. For example, any NF male reading this thread was born into a society in which men are taught to be as un-NF as possible. But, I think there are many blessings to being an NF male... not the least of which is that I ADORE you all!!!!!! (Except for the ones that are having a hard time dealing with their NFness and are embracing their ST shadows which always comes across as out-of-whack and jerk-like.)

So Angry Ayrab and all you other NF males out there, take heart that this little-old-ENFP appreciates you very much... and would immediately zero in on you if you showed up as a blip on her radar.

And even if she sometimes feels like she's hanging out with Frasier (or his brother Niles) when she is hanging out with her dear NF male friends, she'd far, far, far rather be in love with their kind, sweet, and sensitive sorry *sses, than the hottest, richest, powerful-est (sic) ST/SF/NT male in the world.

I just wish there were more of you around. I think the world would be a far better place, if there were.

 

[ajblaise]

The last thing you NF males need is a pity party like this... it's part of the reason why you guys have so much trouble, you're so emo!

Some of you need to learn healthy detachment, and man up.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

The last thing you NF males need is a pity party like this... it's part of the reason why you guys have so much trouble, you're so emo! Some of you need to learn healthy detachment, and man up.

Good grief. It took all of 2 minutes after my post on this very old thread for some xxTx male to demonstrate EXACTLY why I think NF males have such a hard time of it sometimes.

Men interrelate in a very different manner than women do. It just amazes me how insensitive men can be to each other sometimes... Thus, is the blessing and the burden of being an NF male. My INFP friend was saying to me the other day, that it's as if our mutual INFJ friend was born in the wrong century. Had he been born to an educated class in the 19th Century, for example, his sensitivity/creativity/kindness might have been lauded instead of stomped on by a bunch of xxTx clods with no ability to appreciate the value in men approaching life from many perspectives, including the NF one.

 

[ajblaise]

Good grief. It took all of 2 minutes after my post on this very old thread for some xxTx male to demonstrate EXACTLY why I think NF males have such a hard time of it sometimes.

Men interrelate in a very different manner than women do. It just amazes me how insensitive men can be to each other sometimes... Thus, is the blessing and the burden of being an NF male. My INFP friend was saying to me the other day, that it's as if our mutual INFJ friend was born in the wrong century. Had he been born to an educated class in the 19th Century, for example, his sensitivity/creativity/kindness might have been lauded instead of stomped on by a bunch of xxTx clods with no ability to appreciate the value in men approaching life from many perspectives, including the NF one.

If this was almost any other time in history, you NF males would be forced to pick up a weapon and fight, and work much harder just for regular sustenance. You live cushy lives now.

It's not like you have to man up that much to cope with present day Western society. You can be a feminine NF male and find your niche.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

If this was almost any other time in history, you NF males would be forced to pick up a weapon and fight, and work much harder just for regular sustenance. You live cushy lives now. It's not like you have to man up that much to cope with present day Western society. You can be a feminine NF male and find your niche.

#1 - INFx males have a much harder time than ENFx males. I think it's because they (as all introverts) get re-energized from their internal world of ideas, feelings, and impressions. In other words, they err on the side of impracticality.

#2 - INTP males, like ajblaise, in one study scored the highest on "The Obliviousness Index". In other words, they are relatively unaware of / care very little about the emotional tenor of other people. So I guess this just goes to show how we all have our prisons. If INFP/INFJ males are the most pronounced emo-males (ajblaise's term, not mine), then INTP/INTJ are the most pronounce without-a-freakin'-social-clue males.*

The moral of the story is: We're all idiots. The best we can hope for is to be aware of and compensate for our idiocy... And to have a little humility and not judge others too harshly on theirs.

*My experience supports this as well. I lived with an INTJ for four years. He was very sweet in many ways, but clueless in social nuance sometimes.

 

[Tycho]

Some guys that I know of are excellent seducers, thanks to their NF qualities. They can make girls feel really special. It just takes some courage.

Being an NF is no excuse to not get laid.

I'm soft-heartened but at the same time I can be bold, strong and passionate.

Some ISFJ's that I know seem to have more problems with being manly.

 

[Venom]

First and foremost, straight, warm-blooded women are attracted to men. They may complain about the men that they date, but they're attracted to them because they act like men and not like little girls.

this + the following quote

Well hell, I am tired of being your straight friend you that you treat like your gay friend (Dramatization). It's like a company that interviews you for a position, after they look at your stats they tell you how awsome you are and just because you are so awsome and fit everything they are looking for, they won't hire you.

In truth, they treat you like a gay friend, because thats actually the level of attraction they have for you. I think NFs might say something like AngryArab, thinking that they are in fact more qualified for the job. However, the women only tell you this. In fact, they are actually probably more attracted to that ESTP asshole who talks shit behind his gf's back all the time (who he denies even being with) (Ive seen this first hand). The point is, the woman who treats you like a gay friend doesn't "need convincing" that NFs are great after all...she isn't confused!

NFs basically have a few options:
--wait till post 30, when the women have finally learned the truth about the ESTP stereotype
--be that "latin-passion" NF seduction guy...but then you'll be "that guy"
--emotionally torment emotionally dead IXTXs until they say, "fine, I'll put up with your god damn F"
--put on your best ESTP suit

Any other suggestions?

 

[21%]

I haven't got anything useful to add, but I think society's missing out so much with the whole 'be a man' attitude.

NF guys are awesome

 

[purplesunset]

I haven't got anything useful to add, but I think society's missing out so much with the whole 'be a man' attitude.

NF guys are awesome

Ironically enough, the "Be a man" attitude is fueled by insecurity more than anything else.

Competition, strutting, posturing, and the fear that someone out there has a bigger dick (oh noes!) is the basis of male bravura.

That's one rat race I'd rather not be a part of, thank you.

 

[TopherRed]

Two words Babylon: Rico Suave. :mustache:

Truth be told, I just don't care anymore. I've got an ENFP that does the whole advisor thing with me whilst dating her pick of INTJs. I don't care. I'm not interested in dating, I'm interested in a relationship that will work out. If I can't have that, forget it.

Strangely enough though, the ENFP and I have moments when we flirt with each other shamelessly. *shrug* I usually just chalk it up to the full moon, lol.

 

[scortia]

Men who hate football are sexy!

Agreed. I live in Louisiana and my lack of interest (and in fact distaste) in following the Saints made people treat me like a freak. Just like the original poster, I think playing sports is fun. It accomplishes something. Wasting time watching a sporting event is a waste and it makes me long for intellectual conversation or some other sort of escape.

NF males are not alone in this. NF females have other wastes of time in addition that we get flack for not caring about. Trivial things that the masses base their lives around. Bleh.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Scortia, I love what you wrote. And, I agree completely. Even as a young girl, I felt so different from the girls around me. They were always talking about things that I defined as trivial. I yearned for a friend who could have deep and meaningful discussions with me. Alas, most of my friends wanted to talk about ephemera such as their favorite color of lip gloss. Egads!

 

[visaisahero]

I'm not a huge sports fan but I can understand how watching a sports event can be interesting and even fun

favourite colour of lip gloss though, I cannot really relate... much >_>

 

[Kastor]

NF males are not alone in this. NF females have other wastes of time in addition that we get flack for not caring about. Trivial things that the masses base their lives around. Bleh.

God, that's so true

And I love your icon ;D

 

[garbage]

I was out watching UFC with some folks at a bar and just freely admitted that I didn't know a damn thing about it, made comments such as "that bald guy looks like he's pretty seasoned," and asked pretty dumb and basic questions about UFC.

I was mostly there for the company and a chance to get out and grab some drinks, so I looked at it from that perspective. I didn't try to fit in or know what I was talking about, because I really didn't.

And it didn't seem that I was expected to. It seemed like my presence was 'value added'--we started some pretty good conversations and I wasn't shunned, at least. So that's something!


Sometimes, though, outings like that hit my 'tolerance level' too. I get strange looks when people ask what my favorite college football team is and I have no idea how to respond.

 

[Moiety]

It starts to get refreshing though, when you become perfectly comfortable with the fact you just don't pay the same level of importance to those things.

I've had people actually tell me "what you are no watching the soccer match? why, are you sad?"...lol

 

[Yloh]

Now I have complained on here about being an NF male before, but I wouldn't change who I am for anybody.

To be honest, being an NF male has worked to my advantage way more than it has worked against me. I can elaborate if you would like.

This whole persona about what makes a "man" is crap. People have different definitions on what it is to be a "man". I'll give you mine if you want to hear it as I can go on and on about this subject.

NF men, from my understanding, just don't fit the typical "man" presona that most women want. If you get down to basic primal instinct, women want an alpha male. What about the women who want an emotionally understanding man, but never seem to be attracted to them? They want a man who can be like one of the girls, but these men won't get into all of the mainly stuff that attracts these women in the first place. You can also say this is true on the women's side as men talk about wanting a tomboy. Sure they want a woman that can be like one of the guys, but she won't get into all of the girly stuff that attracts most men in the first place. Basic primal instincts really has a larger influenct on us than we give credit for. This doesn't mean NF men and tomboys have no hope in finding romance (as some people acutally find these qualities truly attractive).

Just because you are an ESTP doesn't mean you are an "ass hole". Just because you are an INFP doesn't mean you are "emo". Sure being these types can raise your chances of haveing these stereotypes (as I believe there is some truth to stereotypes), but that doesn't make it true.

Anyways these are my thoughts on the subject.

 

[the state i am in]

different women have different needs.

at times i think i want a woman more emotional than me and then other times i feel so refreshed by T women. i'm sure intelligent, well-balanced women recognize more than strictly one possibility for themselves as well.

the expectations definitely put a bit of pressure on certain normative pairings, ideas/ideals, anticipations, etc. most of the N types i know seem like they don't have too much trouble breaking them, they just need a reason + experience to realize what it uniquely has to offer. at the same time, i think some types are drawn to each other very intensely. how one infj can go with a duality relationship, how one can go with an introverted intp, or how one can go with a sparkly enfp, etc. there are certain things/lessons you learn from your experiences with different types, and some are more privileged and valuable to you than others.

i see no point in bemoaning that a wide demographic of women aren't interested in me. to be truthful would be to realize that i have no interest in most of them. recognizing real connections/chemistry, values, aesthetics, communication quality, relevant ideas, personal energies etc helps you refine your own understanding of yourself and what you want for yourself and how others fit into that. as far as sexuality is concerned, a lot of inxx males, especially those who are strongly sp, don't really put a lot of energy into presenting themselves sexually. which is an attempt to stand out from the crowd, express oneself, etc. that kind of presence makes a big difference in being noticed by others and feeling confident under that kind of scrutiny, and i think it's a basic rule of sexual desirability apart from the more specific "masculine discourse" that makes up what we inf males hate so much: locker room talk, my dick is bigger than your dick blah blah blah, claims of "cockblocking," strip club fodder, etc.