[INFP] INFP and their feelings

[Metis]

We should beat [MENTION=25763]Dreamer[/MENTION] up until we get a clear answer.

Something tells me merciless tickling would elicit better cooperation from him.

I suppose my investment in this case was in a few things. Friendships, an overarching cause, but almost more than that, standing up to a bully which was one of those fabric of being things for me.

Is this an example of what you see as the difference between values and feelings?

The second example this brought to mind was a life-or-death situation, in which fear had no place, because there's no time for experiencing feelings when 100% of your attention needs to be on the immediate situation and how you physically act to deal with it. Regarding that situation, if someone were to ask after the fact, "Were you afraid for your life?", the answer would be yes and no: Yes, I suppose I could say I was motivated by the fear of disaster, but no, I didn't feel fear or any other emotion, because I didn't have time for that.

 

[mgbradsh]

Something tells me merciless tickling would elicit better cooperation from him.

So like, good cop/bad cop?

Is this an example of what you see as the difference between values and feelings?

The second example this brought to mind was a life-or-death situation, in which fear had no place, because there's no time for experiencing feelings when 100% of your attention needs to be on the immediate situation and how you physically act to deal with it. In that situation, if someone were to ask, "Were you afraid for your life?", the answer would be yes and no: Yes, I suppose I could say I was motivated by the fear of disaster, but no, I didn't "feel" fear or any other emotion, because I didn't have time for that.

I guess value would be on deciding whether to act or not. Somewhere in there is a decision, maybe on how you got in that situation in the first place? I dunno.

 

[Metis]

I guess value would be on deciding whether to act or not. Somewhere in there is a decision, maybe on how you got in that situation in the first place? I dunno.

I meant, was your example an example of what you see as the difference between values and feelings?

 

[mgbradsh]

I meant, was your example an example of what you see as the difference between values and feelings?

Ahh. They are the same. Feeling can be a really awkward descriptor for what’s happening. Like Judging. Judging doesn’t really describe having an orderly desk, but that’s an outcome you might not intuit from a single word description of the function.

I find when you change “feeling” into “value” is provides a more focused lens on what’s happening. It’s not like, “I am so much more in touch with my feelings so all my decisions are based on what I know will make me feel good.” It’s more, “How is this decision aligned with my values?” But it’s automatic in many ways. Like water doesn’t think about the pathway it’s going to follow, it goes that way naturally. We react based on our preferences. I think it’s why the OP was so difficult to answer, it’s hard to describe that.

In the life or death example I’d say (depending on the situation) it’s about a decision to act or not and that’s more about instinct than personality. Are instincts (like fight or flight) included in personality, do they operate out of the same parts of the brain, I don’t know.

 

[Luminous]

Before I answer... I think you mean feelings/emotions as in pure feeling and not as in F vs T, where F is also taken to mean value judgment?

there is the “emotional” aspect of a situation where it doesn’t involve emotion but more my personal investment in something, and then there’s the actual emotional bit of the situation...

What is the nature of this personal investment, if it is not emotion?

Value judgment; where does the thing fall in the hierarchy of values or tastes?

 

[mgbradsh]

I think [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] has a better bead on this than me.

Feeling can be its own word too. I can have really strong feelings about things that cause strong emotional responses. That can part of or distinct from my decision making process.

 

[Metis]

Ahh. They are the same. Feeling can be a really awkward descriptor for what’s happening. Like Judging. Judging doesn’t really describe having an orderly desk, but that’s an outcome you might not intuit from a single word description of the function.

I find when you change “feeling” into “value” is provides a more focused lens on what’s happening. It’s not like, “I am so much more in touch with my feelings so all my decisions are based on what I know will make me feel good.” It’s more, “How is this decision aligned with my values?” But it’s automatic in many ways. Like water doesn’t think about the pathway it’s going to follow, it goes that way naturally. We react based on our preferences. I think it’s why the OP was so difficult to answer, it’s hard to describe that.

In the life or death example I’d say (depending on the situation) it’s about a decision to act or not and that’s more about instinct than personality. Are instincts (like fight or flight) included in personality, do they operate out of the same parts of the brain, I don’t know.

I'm not that well-versed in neurophysiology and endocrinology or whatever, but fight-or-flight uses different mechanisms than ruminative worrying, which would be an example of a fear-related emotional experience.

I think value and feeling are related, but a distinction can also be made between the immediate "feeling" of a feeling and the motivating value behind an action. For instance, a drug addict might want to sit around feeling the effect a drug is having on receptors, and while you could say that the addict "values" that experience, it's more of an impassioned urge to quell a hunger. Acting dispassionately on a value that you have, as in the example you gave, is different.

 

[Hiraeth]

I'd like to answer this too, if it's okay, since I've grown more towards this type through dichotomies over the years.

I. How emotions affect you:

When you do things, do you have to really consider it important to yourself?

It makes it way easier for me. If I want to continue long term with something, I need to feel a connection to it in some form or another. There needs to be a greater reason for me to stick with something over time. And once I do, I usually get hooked to the point where almost nothing else is on my mind throughout most of the day, and it makes it harder to do other things I'd rather not do.

Do you have to feel it as a pull, an emotion, and does it create a sense of purpose of some kind? Some kind of meaning?

Yes. I tend to fantasize often about where I'd go with it in the future. I'd like to achieve something and have myself grow as a person in some way. I'm always looking to improve and become a better person than I once was previously. The snake has to shed its skin every so often.

I also think part of this pull revolves around me hanging onto hope, as it's always lingering in my mind even when I'm in a miserable state. It uplifts me and gives me courage to not give up...to keep going. Hope is my drive for meaning.

Do you think that the feelings you have about something gives that something more meaning? If so, why or how?

My feelings are my foundation to live. I need to feel things, and the more the merrier in order to feel alive. So yes, meaning is very important to me and gives whatever I value more color. It's my ultimate truth. But I think this is something healthy for everyone, regardless of type.

II. How you utilize your emotions:

How easily do you detach from your emotions when solving problems, and how much do you value it?

I find myself able to detach far easier than when I was younger, though I still have a lot of work ahead of me. I've learned to shed part of my ego in order to make room for certain detachment. I find it valuable in that I'm a much happier and positive person than I once was, even when I'm in “stuck” situations, and I'm very thankful for that. Yet I don't think I'd ever be able to completely detach from everything either, and I honestly wouldn't want to, nor do I think it's healthy for anyone too.

Do you think that detaching from emotions and your subjective perceptions of an issue helps or harms your endeavour?

To the extent that I do detach, it's given me strength to keep going and not look back. I need this mindset to succeed in life, to not let negative energy discourage me as much as possible. It only makes me stronger in the end. However, there's a vast difference between ego detachment and detachment from life itself. My emotions are alive and well, so I'm still able to feel strongly about matters, yet simultaneously carry a more humbling attitude to the fact that I'm indeed imperfect and make mistakes. Sometimes the best medicine is to admit our faults and be willing to grow as a result.

If you do this, do you do so selectively or as a standard procedure you apply to everything?

I'm unable to detach completely whenever, wherever, but I try to instill a form of detachment as a standard procedure, mostly involving my ego as much I possibly can. I mean, there are days I feel blue and even downright depressed, but I tell myself that this is just another day and it will soon pass. As long as I acknowledge that I can move ahead and be wary of this fact by not getting trapped in my own misery forever, the closer I am to prosperity.

Another thing is I like to make sure that my emotions are in a healthy range, so I try to adhere to a mind, body, and spirit connection. If anything is extremely off balanced, my whole world falls apart around me. It takes work and I'm nowhere near perfect with this, but I can at least make it a priority to take care of myself so that I can learn to deal with life's struggles more fluidly. Also, a part of this involves having “me time” on a daily basis, which I find helps me to detach a lot easier. Spending time around other people for too long not only drains me, but induces unnecessary anxiety in me that would undoubtedly accelerate the rate at which my emotions would spiral out of control. Being aware of this in myself and accepting it as a natural part of who I am, and more importantly, as something that would actually help me in the long run rather than going against the current and generating needless stress is all a part of instilling balance in myself.

 

[Earl Grey]

I would say that’s like asking an INTP if they turn off their thinking when they are trying to come up with an answer. You don’t, you can’t and shouldn’t, it’s the core of the process.

Ignoring feeling in decision making would be like ignoring any of your functions, the outcome would be pretty unhealthy.

Wow. That seems so clear now, how did I never realize this before?
Admittedly, I'm more familiar with / understand more how INTPs work, so yes, I can see how that would be a disaster / I get your point.

A better way to describe the feeling function in decision making decisions is value. That gets tricky though because how do you solve a math problem with your “values”. It’s values that got you to a place where you could solve the problem. That probably meant at an early age seeing value in listening to your parents and teachers and learning how to do math. I wouldn’t mistake that process for a lack of intelligence, I’d say the two things are complimentary.

Absolutely. F =/= dumbness, T =/= intelligence, not necessarily. Emotions are not going to be involved in a more intellectual problem solving of 1+1=2.
Would you define 'values' as a working system based off processes that worked, either for yourself or to solve problems beyond yourself?


And; what would you do if a situation went against your values, or your values go against what you want?

 

[Earl Grey]

Essentially, it’s all a continuim or spectrum and when there isn’t an emotional attachment in something, there still is because anything and everything I do, even if absolutely miniscule, DOES involve a bit of “me” in it, that personal and emotional part that I’ve invested in it, but if that personal investment is relatively low on a given task or whatever, then it only means something else has filled in to compensate. Ya...I’ll have to return to fix up this post. I’m so absurd right now.

TLDR; You have to have an emotional attachment of some sort? Honestly that seems common to people in general, why care about something not significant to yourself in some way? How would you think it differs for Fi-dom or auxes? I ask, because it seems like a definer for Fi/XXFP types, which is something I don't understand.

 

[Betty Blue]

I have a question for INFPs regarding this.

When you are experiencing difficulties with a loved one does it help you to write down how you feel about this'd if so in what kind of format do you write things? Do you write them in a detached manner or one which you still express love for the individual you are writing about?

i.e would you only write about the negatives and how it impacts you, or would it be more rounded and include positives too?

 

[Earl Grey]

I'd like to answer this too, if it's okay, since I've grown more towards this type through dichotomies over the years.

Absolutely. In fact, I wanted to include ISFPs and make a questionnaire for ISFPs, but I have done so twice in the past with no engagement.

Do you have to feel it as a pull, an emotion, and does it create a sense of purpose of some kind? Some kind of meaning?

Yes. I tend to fantasize often about where I'd go with it in the future. I'd like to achieve something and have myself grow as a person in some way. I'm always looking to improve and become a better person than I once was previously. The snake has to shed its skin every so often.

I also think part of this pull revolves around me hanging onto hope, as it's always lingering in my mind even when I'm in a miserable state. It uplifts me and gives me courage to not give up...to keep going. Hope is my drive for meaning.

Since this is important to you and you do it frequently, what do you think about other people? Do you think they do similarly as you do? Do you think they should, or could stand to at least do some more of the similar things you do? If yes or no, why, especially about the bolded?

Do you think that the feelings you have about something gives that something more meaning? If so, why or how?

My feelings are my foundation to live. I need to feel things, and the more the merrier in order to feel alive. So yes, meaning is very important to me and gives whatever I value more color. It's my ultimate truth. But I think this is something healthy for everyone, regardless of type.

What do you think about people who avoid doing so, or do not do so, or at least claim to do so? What would you tell them?

Do you think that detaching from emotions and your subjective perceptions of an issue helps or harms your endeavour?

To the extent that I do detach, it's given me strength to keep going and not look back. I need this mindset to succeed in life, to not let negative energy discourage me as much as possible. It only makes me stronger in the end. However, there's a vast difference between ego detachment and detachment from life itself. My emotions are alive and well, so I'm still able to feel strongly about matters, yet simultaneously carry a more humbling attitude to the fact that I'm indeed imperfect and make mistakes. Sometimes the best medicine is to admit our faults and be willing to grow as a result.

I am curious as to what you mean by detachment; it could be denial, it could be avoidance. As for myself, I detach to see things from a more bird's eye view (so basically, removing myself), so I can solve problems. Alas, if I am unable to spot anything, it becomes difficult to move, because I would want to find out what went wrong.

I've read your answer all the way to the end, but I do not quite understand what you mean. What do you do when you detach, what do you define as detachment, and 'ego detachment'? Ego and emotions are different, do you detach from them differently? Do you ever ignore/discount either as not being important in your decision-making?


Also, thank you so much for your yet again, detailed and in-depth reply. I have enjoyed seeing the things you have to say.

 

[Earl Grey]

I have a question for INFPs regarding this.

When you are experiencing difficulties with a loved one does it help you to write down how you feel about this'd if so in what kind of format do you write things? Do you write them in a detached manner or one which you still express love for the individual you are writing about?

i.e would you only write about the negatives and how it impacts you, or would it be more rounded and include positives too?

I much prefer directly confronting them. Tell them exactly what went wrong, as well as the future implications. Understand their motives or what they were looking for "Hey, if you wanted to achieve X, A is a better way over B. Your B methods have been inconveniencing me / are unacceptable / are less effective, etc in (123) manners."

I would text or call, but I would much prefer talking face-to-face. I'd much rather fluidly discuss things, and make sure that both of us have the correct understanding. I would text only if the issue is urgent enough. Otherwise, I would give them a heads up, "Hey, there is an issue with X, I would like to talk to you about it later."

If it's something more personal, this is where I absolutely begin tripping. Something my partners either value or dislike about me is that until the issue is solved, I go stone cold. I would not express emotions or affection (and the latter is what bothers them the most), and if they did, I would become irate at them for 'distracting' me. I'd say I'm more well-rounded? Actually, I only bring up that particular issue. I don't mix things up. Small example, I would not go "AB tidied up my book collection the wrong way, jumbling up the careful order I have put them in, but they love me and have cleaned the living room today, so it should be okay." I will focus on that issue alone. I also would not let the person do the same to me (cut me slack because hey, I've already pulled my weight in other areas, or that my positive intent matters more/most). This applies to affection as well, for better or worse, so I don't bring up affection while solving an issue, or any other unrelated positives/negatives, for that matter.

 

[mgbradsh]

I have a question for INFPs regarding this.

When you are experiencing difficulties with a loved one does it help you to write down how you feel about this'd if so in what kind of format do you write things? Do you write them in a detached manner or one which you still express love for the individual you are writing about?

i.e would you only write about the negatives and how it impacts you, or would it be more rounded and include positives too?

It doesn’t help me at all.

I need time. The best thing is to go for a walk or drive, wind down and refocus. I would say my brain works more like a library (there is a whole Si tertiary function explanation for this I think). When I’m upset or angry those books are front and centre. By taking some time, it allows me to sort them and reshelve them and realize that the whole library isn’t full of bad stuff, just a couple of shelves.

It’s definitely an internal process.

Also, writing is too slow.

I’m also intensely private and I’d have a lot of anxiety about my private thoughts being discovered.

 

[Dreamer]

TLDR; You have to have an emotional attachment of some sort? Honestly that seems common to people in general, why care about something not significant to yourself in some way? How would you think it differs for Fi-dom or auxes? I ask, because it seems like a definer for Fi/XXFP types, which is something I don't understand.

I’ve been finding myself more busy and occupied with work this week than anticipated but I do wish to return to all your comments and questions here within this thread before too much time has passed. What others have said so far, particularly from @mgbradsh and @Luminous seems to greatly cover or better convey what I was trying to spit out earlier, but I’m no Fi dom so my perspective may be a little different. So I shall return!

To quickly answer your question above though, what I meant when I said I have an emotional attachment to essentially everything, is not so literal that anything and everything consumes me emotionally, or pulls from my resources, but simply just the fact that that’s how I would describe my world and how I navigate myself within it, is through emotion, specifically my emotions and my responses to the outside world. Think of it like sonar but with emotion. Everything gives off a “ping”. To feel someone else’s emotions like pain, to involve myself more with either a person or concept, that’s an active thing I must do. I don’t walk around feeling other’s emotions or feeling the environment. That’s no doubt why I feel I can be extremely empathetic in some cases and in others, well by default, I feel fairly far removed and downright deft.

 

[Population: 1]

Values are not feelings. They are a set of moral guidelines. Most are clearly defined and are inextricably part of me. They are so much a part of me that they undoubtedly illicit strong feelings from me when violated or belittled. Although the emotional response may or may not be openly displayed. So they can stand apart from feelings as they in and of themselves are personal beliefs and not reactions.

For example, I dislike people attempting to strong-arm others. Particularly the tactic of forceful application of ideology on others. I value personal choice and the ability to live as one sees fit, provided it doesn’t harm others or their free will. By itself it is a personal value and nothing more. If I see the aforementioned strong-arming in action however, I’ll become angered and then the code is ignited by emotion.

 

[mgbradsh]

And; what would you do if a situation went against your values, or your values go against what you want?

It doesn’t feel good.

I get a lot of anxiety, it’s tough to eat and sleep, I feel incredibly conflicted, especially when it’s a more serious breach.

I would also say that the values are incredibly personal and I don’t always know what they are until I’m confronted with them. I mean, I have an idea, but not for sure.

Just to add to this, these breaches most often come about when I’m trying to follow someone else’s path instead of my own. Someone I’m close to or respect might do something or have done something and when I try to emulate that it doesn’t always work for me (emotionally). I really have to do things in a way I’m comfortable with and if people aren’t comfortable with that, there isn’t a lot I can do about it.

 

[Hiraeth]

Absolutely. In fact, I wanted to include ISFPs and make a questionnaire for ISFPs, but I have done so twice in the past with no engagement.

Oh, I must have missed those threads then.

Since this is important to you and you do it frequently, what do you think about other people? Do you think they do similarly as you do? Do you think they should, or could stand to at least do some more of the similar things you do? If yes or no, why, especially about the bolded?

I'm sure others do as well, but I can't really say I'm certain it's something they often think about to the extent that I do. I just know that I tend to idealize my future VERY often, probably from a place of being disappointed far too often. But I also know that stagnation isn't healthy. Just like the changes of the seasons, the lunar phases, the cycle of life, death and rebirth. Everything in nature, metaphorically speaking, comes into being, dies, and undergoes some form of transformation. So having a focal point and the determination to fulfill it in some capacity is healthy in the sense that it will likely prevent one from stagnating, and in turn, hopefully achieve something greater while letting go of the more stale aspects of the self.

What do you think about people who avoid doing so, or do not do so, or at least claim to do so? What would you tell them?

I mean, they can do whatever they want. I personally don't think having that mindset is healthy though, since humans are emotional creatures underneath it all. From my view, being emotionally indifferent to most things would seemingly lead to a more nihilistic viewpoint on life, which probably works for some people, but it wouldn't personally for me. I feel more interconnected to the world around me when I have something to look forward to, like being one with the eternal. Life appears richer and more wholesome that way.

I am curious as to what you mean by detachment; it could be denial, it could be avoidance. As for myself, I detach to see things from a more bird's eye view (so basically, removing myself), so I can solve problems. Alas, if I am unable to spot anything, it becomes difficult to move, because I would want to find out what went wrong.

I've read your answer all the way to the end, but I do not quite understand what you mean. What do you do when you detach, what do you define as detachment, and 'ego detachment'? Ego and emotions are different, do you detach from them differently? Do you ever ignore/discount either as not being important in your decision-making?

I can remove myself in the way you described, but it's not something that has always come naturally to me, so I had to learn over time. And at times it's also avoidance leading into escapism, but it's not really the main point of what I was referring to when I mentioned that, though, yeah, it does happen as well and is more inherent to how I am in comparison. I try to find healthier ways of applying the latter more productively too, but admittedly it's something I still struggle with a lot, especially since it's something more at home with me than the other.

Detachment as letting go emotionally as much as one possibly can. There are different ways in how I do it myself, but I can't always utilize it in the manner of an on and off switch like I guess some people can. I'm not going to detach very easily if it's something that strongly adheres to my internal values system (or, unfortunately, if it's an addiction of sorts). But to some degree, I can detach when it comes to not giving into my own pride after some deep introspection by admitting my own faults, sometimes even lowering myself in a way that's self-deprecating (yet I also have to watch myself from going too far into the deep end where it leads to a depressive state, and that takes a level of self-forgiveness, understanding, and compassion to prevent that from happening as often as it has in my past). So in that sense, I consider ego detachment as a form of emotional detachment by not always letting my emotions get in the way from taking a more objective stance in relation to my own sense of self. I can admit fault and take in criticism pretty easily (unless it's extremely insulting, but I can open up to at least seeing where they're coming from). However, there usually does involve some underlying emotions that I'm unable to avoid, mostly ones where I'm either pretty hurt and/or embarrassed, but I've learned to somewhat emerge above it by either shrugging it off or distracting myself in some manner (or preventing this sort of situation from occurring in the first place, so avoidance again, but also saving face from other possible negative outcomes that could spawn from that particular situation, since I'll admit that I'm a highly sensitive person to the core and do harbor some insecurity). Additionally, I don't shy away from embracing certain negative emotions either while I'm alone, especially if I find them pretty overwhelming.

To sum it up, I don't normally take issue with admitting fault, since I see it as a learning experience and don't really take myself that seriously to begin with (though sometimes I'm sure I appear that way, but in the end I know I'm just another speck of dust like everyone else). And yeah, I don't know how to exactly articulate this entire thing either and probably did a piss poor job at it too, but it's basically gotten to the point where it's like this weird form of detaching, yet not detaching at the same time. There's a whole range of emotions and analytical thoughts stirring together.

As for the decision making process, it depends on the situation at hand. I usually weigh out the pros and cons if it's something very important. But I will say, though, that I listen to my intuition or “inner voice” more often than I used to when making important life decisions, seeing it as more of a guide that will direct me to my inner truth.

Also, thank you so much for your yet again, detailed and in-depth reply. I have enjoyed seeing the things you have to say.

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply as well. It got my brain thinking for sure.

 

[Earl Grey]

Values are not feelings. They are a set of moral guidelines. Most are clearly defined and are inextricably part of me. They are so much a part of me that they undoubtedly illicit strong feelings from me when violated or belittled. Although the emotional response may or may not be openly displayed. So they can stand apart from feelings as they in and of themselves are personal beliefs and not reactions.

For example, I dislike people attempting to strong-arm others. Particularly the tactic of forceful application of ideology on others. I value personal choice and the ability to live as one sees fit, provided it doesn’t harm others or their free will. By itself it is a personal value and nothing more. If I see the aforementioned strong-arming in action however, I’ll become angered and then the code is ignited by emotion.

How did you develop those values? What are they based on?
And if I may ask; everyone does have values, moral guidelines. What do you think differs in the way the INFP processes their values?
I ask because I wonder why it's important enough to be an identifier for someone using Fi/is an I-FP, when everyone does have values.

 

[Earl Grey]

Oh, I must have missed those threads then.

They've been deleted. But the last one was relationship-related, so nothing interesting.

And yeah, I don't know how to exactly articulate this entire thing either and probably did a piss poor job at it too, but it's basically gotten to the point where it's like this weird form of detaching, yet not detaching at the same time. There's a whole range of emotions and analytical thoughts stirring together.

I see, thank you so much for your replies. I don't see much of such a deep level of introspection and drive to keep moving forward and changing often, even in other I-FPs. You're of a different flavour than the common ones I know of (it's that really strong w5 in you, from what I see). Generally speaking it's not that easy to truly detach from the ego and practice humility. Even if this not apply to the broader range of people of even the same type, the way you described the processing and motives themselves gave me more insight to what Fi is and how it can work. You explained things very well, I at least can understand what you're saying. Thank you again.

As for the decision making process, it depends on the situation at hand. I usually weigh out the pros and cons if it's something very important. But I will say, though, that I listen to my intuition or “inner voice” more often than I used to when making important life decisions, seeing it as more of a guide that will direct me to my inner truth.

How do you weigh the pros and cons? What are the criteria?
And if you know other Fi doms or Fi auxes, do you think you differ from them in how you process and weigh things? You definitely are a special one.

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to read and reply as well. It got my brain thinking for sure.

Don't mention it. That part is my lifetime hobby.