• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] ENFP/INFJ confusing friendship.. am I annoying this INFJ?

glswnjoh

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
10
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
7
Hello!

I'm an ENFP gal asking for opinions from INFJs about what you guys think on this friendship i have with an INFJ guy.

So we've been friends for about 2 years now, but last year we were just in the same friend group instead of actually knowing each other well.. So I would say that this summer/last few weeks back at school have been a time where we're getting to know each other more personally. Also, he never really caught my attention before recently. I'm beginning to find him more interesting, just like.. as an individual. A human being. Yknow? Not even in the romantic sense yet. But anyways, yes. One day I messaged him like:

me: "LETS HANG OUT!! I haven't seen you in forever!"

and surprisingly, he responds really enthusiastically:

him: "YEAHH LETS DO IT"

which is so different from his previous responses toward me. In the past, he's always been a little cold/reserved. So i'd ask him to hang out just to bug him, knowing that he'd say no, but still wanting to ask. I would say that our friendship has been me *pushing/prying* in a playful way to get him out of his shell more.

so yeah I was pretty shocked but went along with it. We ended up catching up over brunch. I also took him to the farmers market nearby (because 1. I LOVE little markets like these, and 2. I didn't want to go by myself heh). But I think we had a really good time! We picked out some unique honey, got myself some fresh veggies, and I bought us both aloe plants (they were on sale for $3 each!!!). There was never an awkward moment, and our conversations are always really entertaining.

But I can't help but feel like I'm the only one really enjoying this budding friendship. Like, he's very sweet (on the inside, right? haha), and I don't mind the coldness because i know i can get past it and there's fun in peeling back layers of people (is this an enfp thing?). Still, it kinda hurts to think that maybe
I might just be annoying him..

Sometimes he'll show me affection by saying things like, "i hope we both get the jobs. it'd be SO FUN working together!!" but then I'm kinda taken back like, where did that come from?? :0 So i'd play a little cold too to be funny and say "... not sure if that would be the best :|" just so I don't overwhelm him by saying "YEAH IKR??" Or, he'll offer to cook for me if I mention a dish I saw online that looked really good..

but during that brunch that day, he said something that made me question everything.
Me: "haha i can't believe we're finally hanging out. do you know how long i've waited for you to make time for me?! hahah. Why do you reject meee?~"
him: "Lol.. I'm not rejecting you.. i'm just.. avoiding you.. HAHAH"

So we both laughed about that, but I should've stopped him there in that moment to ask what he meant. and why he was avoiding me.

Idk. Am I annoying him? INFJ's, give me your input please. Would you be annoyed by an ENFP like me? Or what do you think is my friend's thought process? What are you guys like when you're genuinely annoyed? Pls help.
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I think since you are friends, perhaps you could just tell him that comment threw you, and ask him what he meant?
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
[MENTION=38216]glswnjoh[/MENTION] You sound kinda like an ENTJ, just a vibe I'm getting (reminding me a bit of ENTJs I know).
 

glswnjoh

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
10
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
7
Interesting... are ENFPs and ENTJs usually similar?
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
Interesting... are ENFPs and ENTJs usually similar?

I find that female ENTJs can sometimes seem like ENFPs (or ESFPs), particularly if they use a fair amount of Fi. I've gotten them confused in the past.

Likewise, an ENFP who uses a lot of Te can seem kinda like an ENTJ.
 

glswnjoh

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
10
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
7
I see.. what exactly does using Te look like though? Or, what about what I described represents my Te? :0

also, do you happen to have any input on my situation, as an INFJ? I think I've deciphered that he's not annoyed, but I'm still unsure what his sudden change of enthusiasm was caused by? Also, how can I get more time with him without seeming pushy/clingy? I know that INFJs need their time alone, but what are some good actions that will not overwhelm him but still let him know I want to hang out more?
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
I see.. what exactly does using Te look like though? Or, what about what I described represents my Te? :0

also, do you happen to have any input on my situation, as an INFJ? I think I've deciphered that he's not annoyed, but I'm still unsure what his sudden change of enthusiasm was caused by? Also, how can I get more time with him without seeming pushy/clingy? I know that INFJs need their time alone, but what are some good actions that will not overwhelm him but still let him know I want to hang out more?

There are different methods of typing a person. In this case, I didn't form the impression of you perhaps being ENTJ from an analysis of your cognitive functions, but because I was reminded of friends I have that I have already established as ENTJs.

For one example, I associate Te with pushiness, though clinginess might be more Fi, I'm not sure.

Te is like... making things happen. It's being commanding, it's efficiently operating technology. Fe makes things happen too, but it does so in a more fuzzy process. Like, instead of telling someone to do something, it more gently guides them into it. It doesn't focus on the steps to achieve a clearly defined goal, but in bringing about mutual understanding between people. Te focuses on the mechanics, Fe focuses on the psychology. (I realise that contrasting Te with Fe doesn't answer the question of how ENTJ contrasts with ENFP)

What I found with ENTJs versus ENFPs, is that ENTJs are much more likely to take the initiative, the first steps. This is relieving for me, because although INFJs are good with taking intiative generally, I'm one of the ones who isn't. I also have NTJs in my family, so I'm more able to interact with them compared to the average INFJ. The problem is that the ENTJs can become overwhelming. They can apply a kind of pressure that stuns me into silence. My problem with the ENFPs is the opposite. It's like we're close but they don't make the effort to interact, and since I'm unbalanced myself and take less initiative than I probably should, that makes things difficult.

If you're indeed an ENFP and he's an INFJ, then there's a good chance that you can just totally be yourself and things will work out naturally. You're unlikely to be overwhelming for him, though there still may be some issues which would be more individual. If you're ENTJ, then you may have to tread more lightly than you want to, and would have to give him a fair amount of space rather than proceeding full steam ahead. I am better at analyising theoretical scenarios rather than actual ones, so I will have to give you the two cases like that.

If he seems cold, and he's an INFJ, then he is probably having a hard time utilising his Fe and so is retreating into Ti. I think I'm like that myself. If you're an ENTJ, then your effect on him would be to perhaps exacerbate that (I'm not saying that you should therefore stay away from him if you're ENTJ, because it's still probably very worthwhile to hang out with him, even if an ENTJ and INFJ pairing is generally quite average), though this could happen even if you're an ENFP, because many INFJs, males especially, do have a tendency to downplay their Fe and overplay their Ti. Coldness, as I'm understanding it, is not inherent to the INFJ, but is inherent to Ti, so if an INFJ seems cold, it may be due to some imbalance.

Anyway, I'm getting too into the formulaic/archetypal understanding of this situation, so hopefully I will re-read the OP with a more reality-focused lens and try to give some definite advice. Being told "it could be this, or it could be this other thing completely" might be more confusing than it is helpful.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
So I'm going to divide your post up and give 2 responses. One will be a demonstration of why you are likely to be an ENTJ. The other will be my personal response to the situation you are describing.

The missing part of the equation here is that I don't know whether the person you're describing is actually an INFJ or not. But what I'll do is put myself in their shoes, so you'll be getting an INFJs response. If the person is an INTP or anything else, then the actual situation will be totally different.

Hello!

I'm an ENFP gal asking for opinions from INFJs about what you guys think on this friendship i have with an INFJ guy.

So we've been friends for about 2 years now, but last year we were just in the same friend group instead of actually knowing each other well.. So I would say that this summer/last few weeks back at school have been a time where we're getting to know each other more personally. Also, he never really caught my attention before recently. I'm beginning to find him more interesting, just like.. as an individual. A human being. Yknow? Not even in the romantic sense yet. But anyways, yes. One day I messaged him like:

I think this is Te because you're giving us the facts (I use the word "facts" to describe both Sensing and Te, so I need to refine my typology vocabulary better to define the distinction more clearly), saying "this is how it is".

I have both male and female ENTJ friends. I think having both INFJ and ENTJ in a group of friends is quite common.

me: "LETS HANG OUT!! I haven't seen you in forever!"

and surprisingly, he responds really enthusiastically:

him: "YEAHH LETS DO IT"

which is so different from his previous responses toward me. In the past, he's always been a little cold/reserved. So i'd ask him to hang out just to bug him, knowing that he'd say no, but still wanting to ask. I would say that our friendship has been me *pushing/prying* in a playful way to get him out of his shell more.

Here you're giving a representation of the situation, simulating an interaction, suggesting introverted perception. This could even be Si because of your use of comparison between past and present, but if you do happen to be an ESTJ (I don't think you are, but it's possible) then the analysis based on ENTJ still basically holds true. INFJ+ENTJ sounds a bit better than INFJ+ESTJ, because they're both N, but ESTJ has totally opposite functions to INFJ, which is a bonus, so they end up being about equal, energetically, with comparable pros and cons.

What I'm seeing in that interaction is that it's an expression of Se, the "let's do it!" - it's bringing things out of contemplation and into reality. Se is more natural for an ENTJ than an INFJ, so it can be hard to get INFJ into an actual situation, but if something meets the requirements of Ni, Fe and Ti, then Se is the next step.

so yeah I was pretty shocked but went along with it. We ended up catching up over brunch. I also took him to the farmers market nearby (because 1. I LOVE little markets like these, and 2. I didn't want to go by myself heh). But I think we had a really good time! We picked out some unique honey, got myself some fresh veggies, and I bought us both aloe plants (they were on sale for $3 each!!!). There was never an awkward moment, and our conversations are always really entertaining.

Here you're giving the details of what happened, almost reliving the event - Se.

I've had many enjoyable interactions with ENTJs. With an ENTJ, we're experiencing the world, whereas with ENFP the world seems to get more tuned out. The details are perhaps less relevant than they are ordinarily, because often in public my Se is working more strongly than usual, but with the ENFP I can loosen up a bit and it becomes a bit dreamier. With an ENTJ, I can point directly to things we did and say "that was fun!".

But I can't help but feel like I'm the only one really enjoying this budding friendship. Like, he's very sweet (on the inside, right? haha), and I don't mind the coldness because i know i can get past it and there's fun in peeling back layers of people (is this an enfp thing?). Still, it kinda hurts to think that maybe
I might just be annoying him..

There's the Fi - your emotional reaction to the situation.

Like I said, I don't think coldness is natural for an INFJ (though maybe Ni could itself be thought of as cold? I'm not sure) so chances are there's a lot of Ti here. That happens. ENTJ+INFJ, your Te is activating his Ti more strongly than usual. He's probably used to Ti, but too much of it can get overwhelming - I often need to take a break from ENTJs because I feel stifled.

Sometimes he'll show me affection by saying things like, "i hope we both get the jobs. it'd be SO FUN working together!!" but then I'm kinda taken back like, where did that come from?? :0 So i'd play a little cold too to be funny and say "... not sure if that would be the best :|" just so I don't overwhelm him by saying "YEAH IKR??" Or, he'll offer to cook for me if I mention a dish I saw online that looked really good..

Logically, this should be the Ti part of the post (I know Ti is an unconscious function for ENTJ, but with the kind of analysis that I'm doing right now, all 8 functions show up, although the unconscious functions are utilised differently than they are for someone with that function as conscious, showing the theme of one function, but the cues of another or multiple others - so the function order goes Te-Ni-Se-Fi-Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, but it kinda looks like Te-Ni-Se-Fi-Te-Ni-Se-Fi). It does have a sort of logical flow to it. "This, then this, then this."

Here, I think you're describing his Fe. Just as an ENTJ's Te can be overwhelming for an INFJ, and INFJ's Fe can be overwhelming for an ENTJ. So you can get a mirroring of how he might be reacting to your Te by how you react to his Fe. What do you think when he expresses warmth or offers to do things for you? What would be your reaction if those sort of things became common place?

but during that brunch that day, he said something that made me question everything.
Me: "haha i can't believe we're finally hanging out. do you know how long i've waited for you to make time for me?! hahah. Why do you reject meee?~"
him: "Lol.. I'm not rejecting you.. i'm just.. avoiding you.. HAHAH"

Ne... because... of the questioning? The surprise? It mirrors the Ni section, but I think reflects a different cognitive process which is happening unconsciously.

If an INFJ avoids an ENTJ, but isn't rejecting them... it could partly be the lack of Se. Unwillingness to be part of a situation happening in real time. It may also suggest Ti's asociality, or Fe's social anxiety.

So we both laughed about that, but I should've stopped him there in that moment to ask what he meant. and why he was avoiding me.

Si because of the reflection on the past, regretful nature. Se because it mentions the literal situation.

Yeah, there are different reasons to avoid a person. Shyness is a big one. Not liking the person is one possible reason, but in this case I don't think he dislikes you, I think it may reflect a general tendency of his, though it's possible that he's not comfortable with you to the extent to which he would like. But yeah, asking him about it probably wouldn't hurt.

Idk. Am I annoying him? INFJ's, give me your input please. Would you be annoyed by an ENFP like me? Or what do you think is my friend's thought process? What are you guys like when you're genuinely annoyed? Pls help.

Fe because here you're turning to the group - asking directing for our input.

Would I be annoyed by an ENTJ (like you)?

Well, there are certain things I dislike about ENTJs. One thing is that if I have a problem with them, I will mull it over in my head, having an imagined argument, but I'll be much less able to bring it up to them in person.

I do like ENTJs. I can sometimes highly idealise certain ENTJs who have impacted me, thinking they're the best person ever. I can also completely devalue them thinking they're the cause of my problems.

I would advise open communication. Ask for his opinion, and try to be relaxed in your judgement. One problem I have faced with ENTJs is that I don't want to be open because I fear their retaliation, so go easy. If the communication is open, they will probably let you know what sort of distance they want to maintain, and what sort of things might be causing them distress, and what sort of things they really like. Listen to what they have to say, and try not to be too pushy. If they're not giving much of a response, that could indicate an issue, but it could also just reflect their natural tendency. Being too direct can stun an INFJ, so give them time in their response.

Well, that's enough about my person feelings towards ENTJs xD. Hopefully it at least somewhat fits the actual situation.
 

Z Buck McFate

Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
6,048
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm not confident my answer would apply to the INFJ type as a whole, but I personally don't spend time with people who annoy me. If I'm consistently short with someone and turn down all offers to do something together, it's a relatively safe assumption that either something about them annoys me or that I'm just not interested in getting to know them better (sometimes it's just depression and not having the energy to interact even with people I enjoy - but that's kind of a side tangent). But if I'm agreeing to spend time together, it's safe to assume they don't annoy me. And so long as I continue to agree to spend time together, it's safe to keep assuming such.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I agree. I also would say that generally infjs are overly concerned about intruding but respond fairly favorably to people initiating contact. You may need to monitor whether they are sharing as much as you are, but most are pretty willing to share as long as they know you care to listen. It's easy to inadvertently fall into them listening to the other person a lot and not really liking the imbalance but not wanting to push if the other person isn't interested. Sometimes they need encouragement (and accountability) to make their wants and needs known, rather than just reacting after they realize they are frustrated. One problem is that it seems more difficult for infjs themselves to understand themselves, yet they enjoy responding to others, so the friendship can become imbalanced if neither party isn't aware of that tendancy. I think a lot of the infjs I know have a horror of taking up more than their share of emotional space and also like to regard themselves as reasonable and low maintenance. It can mean that they don't say when small things bother them till it's gone on a long while and represents a larger pattern. By making space for them emotionally and making sure they know that even negative things are welcome, it often heads off other problems down the road and will allow them to take more responsibility in communicating clearly.

Overall though, I think just err on the side of laying things out and treating people like people more than a type.
 

glswnjoh

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
10
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
7
So I'm going to divide your post up and give 2 responses. One will be a demonstration of why you are likely to be an ENTJ. The other will be my personal response to the situation you are describing.

The missing part of the equation here is that I don't know whether the person you're describing is actually an INFJ or not. But what I'll do is put myself in their shoes, so you'll be getting an INFJs response. If the person is an INTP or anything else, then the actual situation will be totally different.



I think this is Te because you're giving us the facts (I use the word "facts" to describe both Sensing and Te, so I need to refine my typology vocabulary better to define the distinction more clearly), saying "this is how it is".

I have both male and female ENTJ friends. I think having both INFJ and ENTJ in a group of friends is quite common.



Here you're giving a representation of the situation, simulating an interaction, suggesting introverted perception. This could even be Si because of your use of comparison between past and present, but if you do happen to be an ESTJ (I don't think you are, but it's possible) then the analysis based on ENTJ still basically holds true. INFJ+ENTJ sounds a bit better than INFJ+ESTJ, because they're both N, but ESTJ has totally opposite functions to INFJ, which is a bonus, so they end up being about equal, energetically, with comparable pros and cons.

What I'm seeing in that interaction is that it's an expression of Se, the "let's do it!" - it's bringing things out of contemplation and into reality. Se is more natural for an ENTJ than an INFJ, so it can be hard to get INFJ into an actual situation, but if something meets the requirements of Ni, Fe and Ti, then Se is the next step.



Here you're giving the details of what happened, almost reliving the event - Se.

I've had many enjoyable interactions with ENTJs. With an ENTJ, we're experiencing the world, whereas with ENFP the world seems to get more tuned out. The details are perhaps less relevant than they are ordinarily, because often in public my Se is working more strongly than usual, but with the ENFP I can loosen up a bit and it becomes a bit dreamier. With an ENTJ, I can point directly to things we did and say "that was fun!".



There's the Fi - your emotional reaction to the situation.

Like I said, I don't think coldness is natural for an INFJ (though maybe Ni could itself be thought of as cold? I'm not sure) so chances are there's a lot of Ti here. That happens. ENTJ+INFJ, your Te is activating his Ti more strongly than usual. He's probably used to Ti, but too much of it can get overwhelming - I often need to take a break from ENTJs because I feel stifled.



Logically, this should be the Ti part of the post (I know Ti is an unconscious function for ENTJ, but with the kind of analysis that I'm doing right now, all 8 functions show up, although the unconscious functions are utilised differently than they are for someone with that function as conscious, showing the theme of one function, but the cues of another or multiple others - so the function order goes Te-Ni-Se-Fi-Ti-Ne-Si-Fe, but it kinda looks like Te-Ni-Se-Fi-Te-Ni-Se-Fi). It does have a sort of logical flow to it. "This, then this, then this."

Here, I think you're describing his Fe. Just as an ENTJ's Te can be overwhelming for an INFJ, and INFJ's Fe can be overwhelming for an ENTJ. So you can get a mirroring of how he might be reacting to your Te by how you react to his Fe. What do you think when he expresses warmth or offers to do things for you? What would be your reaction if those sort of things became common place?



Ne... because... of the questioning? The surprise? It mirrors the Ni section, but I think reflects a different cognitive process which is happening unconsciously.

If an INFJ avoids an ENTJ, but isn't rejecting them... it could partly be the lack of Se. Unwillingness to be part of a situation happening in real time. It may also suggest Ti's asociality, or Fe's social anxiety.



Si because of the reflection on the past, regretful nature. Se because it mentions the literal situation.

Yeah, there are different reasons to avoid a person. Shyness is a big one. Not liking the person is one possible reason, but in this case I don't think he dislikes you, I think it may reflect a general tendency of his, though it's possible that he's not comfortable with you to the extent to which he would like. But yeah, asking him about it probably wouldn't hurt.



Fe because here you're turning to the group - asking directing for our input.

Would I be annoyed by an ENTJ (like you)?

Well, there are certain things I dislike about ENTJs. One thing is that if I have a problem with them, I will mull it over in my head, having an imagined argument, but I'll be much less able to bring it up to them in person.

I do like ENTJs. I can sometimes highly idealise certain ENTJs who have impacted me, thinking they're the best person ever. I can also completely devalue them thinking they're the cause of my problems.

I would advise open communication. Ask for his opinion, and try to be relaxed in your judgement. One problem I have faced with ENTJs is that I don't want to be open because I fear their retaliation, so go easy. If the communication is open, they will probably let you know what sort of distance they want to maintain, and what sort of things might be causing them distress, and what sort of things they really like. Listen to what they have to say, and try not to be too pushy. If they're not giving much of a response, that could indicate an issue, but it could also just reflect their natural tendency. Being too direct can stun an INFJ, so give them time in their response.

Well, that's enough about my person feelings towards ENTJs xD. Hopefully it at least somewhat fits the actual situation.


this was such a good breakdown it's unbelievable haha it was a lot to read but i loved reading your analysis through and through. yet, i'm 100% an enfp. So it's interesting to see how I play with entj traits sometimes. anyways THANK YOU SO MUCH for your in depth response!!!
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
this was such a good breakdown it's unbelievable haha it was a lot to read but i loved reading your analysis through and through. yet, i'm 100% an enfp. So it's interesting to see how I play with entj traits sometimes. anyways THANK YOU SO MUCH for your in depth response!!!

No problem.

You could be ENFP, as I say, my approach works in theory but I haven't perfected it in practice.
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,039
MBTI Type
NiFe
[MENTION=38216]glswnjoh[/MENTION]

For some examples of ENFPs see:

YouTube

YouTube

And ENTJs:

YouTube

YouTube

Do you relate to any of them?

Just correcting this post of mine. I've relooked at it and I don't think all of these typings were correct. Yasmine and Johan of Krewella actually seem to be INFJs, not ENFPs, and I'm not sure about Marina.

For some ENFPs check out

YouTube - Kelli (the redhead) seems to be an ENFP (I'm not sure what Peyton's type is; the interviewer seems ISFJ though)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJy72LmC9Lo - Lauren also seems to be an ENFP (she seems to be using a lot of Te in the interview). I think Iain is an INTJ.
 
Top