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  1. #51
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    There's so much to unpack here, you'd think it was Christmas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Lion View Post
    lol This was cute. 1.) The problem is, in no capacity are you positioned to tell/advise me what to do. On that accord, you're out of bounds. Stay in your lane.
    According to who? Someone with no insight who prides themselves in overstepping others bounds and even admits so in this post? Someone who just implied they'd incite more incidents when they decided to leave? (and it's funny that you think you'll have a say in how you go when you continually put out shit like this) You are out of touch with reality.

    a.] High sensitivity + reactivity ≠ insecurity and low self-esteem. Learn about it if you don't already know. Right or wrong, good or bad, the general fucks I give about being "agreeably disagreeable" are microscopic; that's what you actually see. In arguments, my intense (sometimes, flippantly so) manner and pointed charge are oftentimes impersonally and indiscretely rendered though some might assumably take it personally (I might care about this if it behooves me to care); I'm inclined to be like that about everything and everybody. And I genuinely welcome (and almost expect) others to respond in kind and so there's 0 hypocrisy on that front. Half of that is due to being reared by wild hyenas (nurture) and the rest is a genetic predisposition to "turning up" (nature). 9/10, it's not personal.
    "It's my parents fault that I'm a vituperative leech, not mine" By the way for future reference that was a proper strawman.
    But I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt.
    Ha!
    My quip about (your lack of) introverted intuition concerned its utility as a cognitive function, in and of itself, and so comparing that to how a type manifests in its entirety as some evidence of my alleged "hypocrisy," is a strawman fallacy. I already know and fully concede that I'm not a typical ENFJ (imo, it's the enneagram 8 that fucks me up). Furthermore, it's one thing to intuit how a certain behavioral choice might work out, it's another to actually care about adjusting/adhering to said intuition. I do so at my own discretion.
    Allow me to add to that previous strawman with "It's my parents fault that I'm a vituperative leech, not mine, because I choose to ignore my better judgement on purpose in order to be so." If anything at least you know what a real strawman looks like now. Furthermore it's not your enneagram that is messing you up. It's your immaturity, your willingness to look at options before you and to willingly choose the wrong one.
    Lastly, if I were as sensitive to "personal attacks" as you claim I am, I'd consider this arguably triggered, hyper-sensitive response from you to be a "personal attack" and therefore, subject to punitive action. Suffice to say, what constitutes a personal attack is arbitrary and that's what makes many of the forum's rules and policies concerning them, ridiculous and, ultimately, inequitably partisan.
    I want you to report me. I want you to actually report me for my reply because I want you to see the big ol' ball of nothing that happens when you do. You are so completely out of your depth and running around dark that maybe it'll shed some light for you, but as you said earlier you do choose to "ignore" your intuition so I'd be surprised if you learn anything during your time here.

    b.] It's already been established to my satisfaction that the guidelines that define this "community" run counter to my preferred method of engagement. Regardless, I'm committed to doing what I want. If I don't violate a rule in the process, fine. If I do, fine. I'm willing to accept the consequences and repercussions--this is a tiny forum at the farthest reaches of the internet; it's not that serious, upon my ouster I suspect somehow I'd cling to life. There are people here that I like and think are cool but, contextually speaking, I don't give a fuck about "community." I define, set, and abide by all the "community" guidelines I want to in real life, I don't need to do so here. I've come with a specific agenda, that being, to further my understanding of typology. Anything more than that is a plus, not a necessity.
    There's several resources on the front page, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    3.) So I'm to blame because you confusingly can't agree on which person to speak in, so as to make yourself clearly understood? lol I spoke primarily in the 1st person but also utilized the 2nd person because I was directly and literally addressing the actual members of the forum, first by posing an initial question and then going on to pose more within my own response; If you would have solely replied in the 1st person (like virtually everyone else did, with the notable exception of Dreamer, who I also directly responded to) as opposed to problematically/incorrectly switching to the 2nd person (if, in fact, you weren't specifically addressing me), I most likely would have never reasonably concluded that we were having an interactive, back and forth dialogue, like I intended. Get it together. Clap back when your own house (of logic) is in order.
    You're to blame for all of your own shortcomings, yes. That is generally how life works. Not your "Hyena family" that raised you, nor the genetics they passed on to you. You are responsible for your behavior. You've bounced around rationalizing it, and blaming it on others but not once have you done anything to own it. I don't know how old you are, but I know you're acting far too immature for someone your age, simply because this isn't a way anyone should carry themselves. Grow up, stop abusing "lol" in your posts and learn to take responsibility for yourself. Your inability to communicate on a forum properly is in fact your failing. The reason your thread on the victims of Parkland shooting was deleted was because your lack of tact, and your inability to communicate without hurling insults, the same reason you were banned from a thread for arguing with Mal. (by the way good job, everyone argues with Mal, and you're the only person who couldn't do it so there's your crowning achievement, I hope you're proud.)

    Lol The real irony is your routine (and inaccurate) mentioning of alleged "illogical fallacies" while you partake of them like a newborn baby to tits.
    I hope you come up with a half-assed non-apology for this insult too. Those are the best parts of your posts. And you were going to report me right? Because what I said was worthy of punitive measure? Get the fuck out of here. Also look up "routine."


    1.) lol Here we go, finally, you buttress my overall impression regarding your initial response. It read to me like you took umbrage with what you wrongly perceived to be me distancing myself from/setting myself above humanity (as if I'm outside of the human "problem" and not a part of it[which I most certainly am]), especially seeing as how in the first few lines of your initial response, you remarked, "I don't think it matters how one feels about "people", regardless of your personal feelings toward every human on earth unless you live in a remote isolated island you'll have to deal with them, and you count amongst their number regardless if you do live on that remote island." I'm actually iNtuitive and so I know when I taste saltiness. And yet I'm the "insecure" one, right? lol
    You took the time to quote someone who wasn't even addressing you directly, exposed and projected your own delusions as a reply and then thought you could play it off and slink away when the heat turned up. That coupled with your need to inflict your personality on others is pretty telling. But I do admit some wrong doing here, because you clearly stated you were raised by Hyena's and with the amounts of times you lol'd in all your posts and even in the title of your thread, it's quite clear you don't fit in with humanity and are one of them. I hope I didn't offend when I said that your genetics weren't to blame, I can't say I understand how hard it is for Hyena's in this world, especially those that identify as their competitors, the Lion. This also explains the constant confusion. You're torn between what you want to be and what you are. Well make no mistake the fact that you taught yourself how to type and communicate does make you exceptional and your social skills are exceptional for beast. It has to be forgiven that you can't communicate quite on the level of an actual human being. This also justifies everything you said.


    2.) Nah, you actually read more like a dominant Se user who cognitively prefers that things be spelled out literally for him, and, subsequently, is prone to misunderstanding and skeptically misinterpreting abstractions.
    I'm glad you brought this up because it further shows that you don't know what functions you've been trying to push onto people. You don't know what the proper use of Se even is defined as. If @miss fortune saw this I'm sure she'd tear you a new one.



    I'm done with this line of interaction. Carry on at your pleasure. The day I choose to permanently check out of this place, I'll respond then.
    Have fun prowling the grasslands of Africa. Watch out for the real lions.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Non_xsense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Western culture gave us the abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history in 1833 in the British House of Commons, and Western culture gave us the emancipation of women for the first time in 1901 in Australia and New Zealand, and Western culture gave us judicial enquiries and the criminal prosecution of institutional child sexual abuse for the first time in Ireland in 2009, and in Australia in 2017.

    Western culture gave us the Enlightenment of evidence and reason, and so gave us modern science and modern medicine, and Western culture gave us liberal democracy and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Western culture also gave us modern economics and prosperity.

    In the Life of Brian they ask "What did the Romans do for us?" And we are asking "What did Western Culture do for us?". And there is an almost never ending list of most of the good in the modern world.

    Ressentiment, we note, falls to describing Western culture as "shit".
    Amazing .... only took more than 3000 years of killing each others and other cultures .

  3. #53
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    @Digital Lion

    I would watch what you say about Se doms... you're being rather idiotically prejudiced there... you're lucky I'm on lunch and have limited time I care to spend on someone like you

    You lost any goodwill I felt towards you with your ignorant statement... good going there

    To answer the op, yes... I like almost everyone!
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss fortune View Post
    @Digital Lion

    I would watch what you say about Se doms... you're being rather idiotically prejudiced there... you're lucky I'm on lunch and have limited time I care to spend on someone like you

    You lost any goodwill I felt towards you with your ignorant statement... good going there

    To answer the op, yes... I like almost everyone!
    HUH? "Idiotically prejudiced?" WHAT? You must be joking.

    HOW, just HOW? I said nothing whatsoever that was disparaging towards Se doms. Now we're wading into truly ridiculous territory.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Lion View Post
    HUH? "Idiotically prejudiced?" WHAT? You must be joking.

    HOW, just HOW? I said nothing whatsoever that was disparaging towards Se doms. Now we're wading into truly ridiculous territory.
    Inferring Se doms are dumb is regarded as insulting. Because it is an unsubstantiated and prejudice claim.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Inferring Se doms are dumb is regarded as insulting. Because it is an unsubstantiated and prejudice claim.
    WHERE DID I DO THAT? I'm seriously asking. Please quote it.

  7. #57
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    Any comments I made about Se doms was rooted in things that I have read about the way in which inferior Ni manifests in them. THAT IS ALL. Deriving anything from my comments that supports some alleged implication or insinuation that they are somehow less intelligent is patently false and utterly ridiculous. Because I don't even think that. I even thought I was possibly an ESTP for a minute and I know I'm not dumb. Seriously relax.

    SeTi (ESTP) — Type in Mind

    Fourth Function and the Supporting Role of the Internal World:
    Introverted Intuition
    Ni is the last process an SeTi uses. They are so focused on the here-and-now of what is going on around them that their intuition doesn’t always occur to them in blatant or obvious ways. They experience their inner world in a vaguely intuitive way. It is open and somewhat fluid, and in their search for meaning they are always evolving and shifting internally, though they see the outer world as very solid and unchangeable. When they consider various concepts or ideas, they tend to see them from multiple angles and points of view, which they bring together to form one coherent idea.

    While SeTi’s can plan and make future-oriented goals, it’s not something they want to spend a great deal of time doing. If they need to make a big purchase or big decision, they’ll sit down and plan out the details, research, and consider the possible outcome of their choice, but in general they don’t rely on future predictions very heavily.

    They might enjoy thinking about the future in a vague way, but they have the sense that focusing too much on what might be is pointless. They feel that if they focus on what is going on currently, and know how to adapt to things as they come up, the future is automatically going to be taken care of. If they do what they need to do now in a certain way (good or bad), they know their future is going to reflect those actions. Their intuition is subconscious, so while they are always calculating for the future, it might not always be obvious, even to them. But because their “right here, right now” actions are always focused on setting themselves up for the next step, they are aware of what the future will bring in a vague sense.

    Depending on what stage of development the SeTi is in, they may have different levels of comfort with more theoretical subjects, but generally speaking, Ni can handle the abstract as long as Se can see a clear use for it in the real world. Typically, if the SeTi chooses to invest in something like abstract algebra, it’s because they have a particular goal in mind for it. They generally don’t enjoy speculation for its own sake. Rather, they see knowledge as tools of the mind, which enable them to be more capable at various tasks. Some SeTi’s find it useful to map out a general direction to make sure they actually get to where they want to go so that they don’t waste time learning things they can’t apply later on. While their Se side cares mostly about what is useful in the moment, Ni is able to provide balance by considering what might be needed in the future.

    Ti is combined with Ni to make an interesting combination of abstract, objective analysis. Because much of the SeTi’s analysis is performed in their subconscious, it can be very tricky for them to eloquently describe their logic. This can also make it hard for others to see their intelligence. Their intuitive side is always seeking to understand things more deeply and wants to discover the core essence of things, but putting language to their abstract thought processes requires a lot of effort as they don’t naturally think in a verbal or linear fashion.

    Everything in their inner world is linked through constantly shifting and evolving webs. They might have a gut instinct that something is going to happen, often right before that scenario plays out in front of them. It can even feel psychic, because their introverted iNtuition (Ni) is subconsciously trying to figure out what comes next.

    They subconsciously calculate several possibilities based on what is happening around them in the moment. When it comes to the past, most of what they recall is the overall feeling of their experiences, rather than vivid details. Throughout their experience (whether of life in general, or in the story of a book or movie, etc), their mind naturally highlights themes and sees patterns of meaning within the overarching story. They will re-evaluate things, or think about certain questions from different angles. Their Ni side knows that it’s impossible to uncover the full truth in any area, and is like a comforting friend who pats their shoulder and says, “It’s okay. You don’t have to have everything figured out.”

    SeTi’s may subconsciously see patterns and make connections in things with their Ni. For example, when read a complex theory, it might not immediately make sense, but after moving on to a new activity, their subconscious connects the dots. Everything will synthesize in their mind and they will have an “aha!” moment where everything becomes clear. Although these moments of clarity are nice, relying too much on them can be very draining. While they should learn to trust their instincts, over reliance on intuitive premonitions is likely to make them more paranoid than anything.

    While SeTi’s can handle abstract ideas, concepts, and conversations, they can tire of this type of thought quickly if they see no practical, real world value for it. While endless speculation about every possibility under the sun will tire them, if you give them one abstract concept, they can run with it—building on it, and feeling out how to make it a tangible reality. Jumping from one abstract idea to another in rapid succession will get exhausting and is likely to make them lose interest in the conversation quickly.

    SeTi’s are great at helping others in crisis mode, since they can prepare for what might come next based on what is going on in the moment. Because they are very in-the-moment, they probably won’t be thinking about every possibility for their own lives 5 years in the future. Their intuition reaches into the immediate future instead, so they know what to deal with next.

    If their current situation feels turbulent, stressful, or overwhelming, they might have the sense that their life in general is now out of their control. If the way out is not immediately obvious, they might feel completely hopeless. It can seem that their circumstances are never going to change, and that their current reality will be their reality forever. SeTi’s in the midst of their own crises may need to enlist someone else who can help them out of their difficult situation and remind them that what’s happening right now won’t be their reality forever.

  8. #58

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    @Digital Lion you stated the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Lion
    2.) Nah, you actually read more like a dominant Se user who cognitively prefers that things be spelled out literally for him, and, subsequently, is prone to misunderstanding and skeptically misinterpreting abstractions.
    Given the aggressive and unapologetic approach you have been taking in your response to Fiend, it is hard to see how stating this isn't an implication of stupidity. One can receive a free pass for ignorance on typology for not understanding that there is far more to personality than stereotypes as this. However, you have implied that you know a good amount about this already and thus it is fair to assume that you'd know this is a stereotype. Beyond that, it's pretty well regarded that ones personality does not connect strongly if at all to intelligence. You did see recently the thread that was made asking people to state how they break the stereotypes of their types. You are clearly very aware of this.

    Typology can not be wielded as a weapon to disqualify a person. It's unfair and unsubstantiated. Humans are far too varied.

    Ultimately, you need to temper your aggression and assertion. It's way way overdone, and the discussion at hand does not call for that level of intensity. Take it from someone who arguably has one of the nastiest tempers on the forum when it comes out. We all need to learn when to dial it up and dial it down, and in nearly all of the cases dialing it down is the right answer. Which, is annoying, but it's what the social world demands and requires of us.
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  9. #59
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    If all of this is "prejudicial," please let me know and teach me otherwise.

    How Functions Work: Inferior Ni (ESTP/ESFP) - Type Theory

    Inferior Ni

    Se-doms can use Ni consciously for tasks that require attention to abstract conceptualization. For instance, when making an important decision, one needs to visualize potential outcomes in order to decide appropriately. However, since Ni is the opposing force to Se, Se is very prone to overriding and repressing Ni and misunderstanding its fundamental nature. While Se-doms can use Ni in very simplistic ways, they cannot fathom using Ni as a “main approach to life” like a dominant function, and therein lies the main source of psychological conflict.

    Se focuses on actively engaging with novel physical stimuli; it detects unique or striking sensory facts and details and responds to them quickly and efficiently in order to grasp any opportunity to interact with the positive aspects of the environment. When Se-doms rely too heavily upon Se, they will identify with Se’s activities, using their natural adaptability, confidence, and optimism to construct the foundation of their identity. Because of this, Se will feel continually threatened by the Ni perspective because Ni has the potential to disrupt or shatter one’s ego image. Ni is focused on interpreting complex patterns and searching for deeper meaning in order to find personal direction and purpose in life. But Se tends to misinterpret Ni as being dull, unrealistic, impractical, unnecessary, needlessly negative or overcomplicating, or even missing the entire point of life. Ultimately, Se forcefully rejects the Ni perspective because it fears frittering away precious time that could be otherwise allocated to making the most out of life’s experiences and, if one cannot live life to its fullest, then there really is no point to being alive. Therefore, unhealthy or immature Se-doms do their utmost to reject Ni in order to protect their ego-image as a “flexible, resilient, vibrant, and carefree” person.

    However, when Se-doms rely too heavily upon Se and suppress Ni, they will develop an overly undisciplined or impetuous attitude towards life. Instead of using Ni appropriately, Se will use Ni to seek out “meaning” in otherwise meaningless experiences. In other words, Se will develop a maladaptive tendency to misattribute meaning and miscalculate implications, often misjudging the value of new experiences and, as a result, chase after opportunities that are not actually very worthwhile. When Se is not functioning in a healthy manner, Se-doms will be more prone to: becoming overly reliant on immediate feedback to steer their own actions, becoming overly reliant on external stimulation for personal satisfaction, being careless with decisions or relationships, building up tolerance/numbness for external stimulation, drifting aimlessly from one forgettable experience to another, repeating mistakes, neglecting physical or psychological health and well-being, having no focus or clearly defined goals, having no patience to delay gratification for the sake of a greater goal, etc. This will lead to a buildup of feelings of incompetence, apathy, or insecurity, especially when they gradually lose the will to seek out new experiences or find it increasingly difficult to enjoy life or see value in accomplishments.

    No function can be fully suppressed, so inferior Ni will leak into consciousness in strange ways. Proper Ni desires deeper insight and long term vision and is completely comfortable with seeing one’s reality as structured and deterministic. This can create an underlying sense of anxiety in Se-doms because Se fundamentally requires reality to have no boundaries and limits in order to to preserve the freedom to respond quickly to life’s many twists and turns. Thus, when Se becomes overextended, Se-doms may exhibit somewhat desperate attempts to avoid exploring deeper implications so that they can maintain their implicit trust in life and defend against the restrictive and tedious nature of Ni. For example, they might: avoid deeper analysis and then feel insecure about their own intellectual abilities, project their insecurities outwards and disparage contemplative or cautious people, express disdain for abstract ideas or theories or musings, only seek out positive or comfortable environments/people, try to avoid discomfort or negative feelings and emotions, refuse to acknowledge personal shortcomings or flaws, be overconfident about their opinions or ability to guess at outcomes and not realizing that they are mere intuitions with no empirical evidence, refuse to take responsibilities seriously, refuse to acknowledge or deal with negative consequences, resist social expectations or obligations, rebel against rules/structures, ignore/resent advice to think or behave more carefully, and so on.

    However, this means that Se has not understood the real source of its own anxiety and so the underlying conflict remains unresolved. Se sees Ni as the “enemy” rather than as an important and helpful part of one’s own psyche. The longer this conflict between Se and Ni goes on, the greater the likelihood of succumbing to “the grip”. Se might try to resist a grip experience by looking for an external scapegoat for its stress and suffering. Not wanting to turn a critical eye on itself, Se might make excuses or blame its own failures on the culture/environment or accuse other people of being unsupportive. On one hand, Se-doms crave connection with the Ni world and unconsciously desire the perceptive depth and long range vision that the best Ni-doms can achieve; on the other hand, they resent themselves for this desire and become defensive by creating a defiant mindset where they “courageously” challenge the outside world instead of confronting the challenges within, all the while ignoring the real problem. The more they resist the pull to understand the deeper meaning behind their motivations and the implications of their behaviors, the more they will lack direction in life and feel increasingly numb or adrift.

    Se-doms can be emotionally triggered in a variety of ways, such as: being judged as immature or superficial or incompetent, feeling that others doubt the legitimacy of their talents or achievements, not receiving positive feedback for their work, being criticized when they have put out a lot of effort, spending too much time with overly serious or impractical people, working with inflexible/cynical/uncooperative/incompetent people, being pressured to make long term commitments, being pressured into making decisions that can have a major impact on future developments, feeling as though alternatives or options are being closed off, being forced to work in excessively structured environments, enduring rigid routines or procedural work for long periods, feeling pressured to conform to other people’s rules or schedules, tight deadlines or onerous supervision, feeling a lack of stimulation or variety, feeling disorganized or mentally clouded, feeling unable to solve problems quickly and efficiently, being overwhelmed by too many duties or a heavy workload.

    When they become stressed and mentally fatigued to the point where Se can no longer maintain its dominance, unhealthy Ni urges will finally erupt from the unconscious, driving Se-doms to surrender to Ni in a negative or destructive manner. The ways in which these psychological urges manifest behaviorally are often unique to the individual and the circumstances. They tend to grossly misattribute meaning to details or events, interpreting everything in an overly foreboding or negative light. This can lead to disturbing visualizations of dire future outcomes, sometimes bringing up deeper anxieties related to personal fears like losing loved ones or going insane. They lose their characteristic passion and enthusiasm to experience life and, instead, become confused, pessimistic, withdrawn, anxious, paranoid, unhappy, gloomy, irritable, fatigued, forgetful, or alienated from others. Being unused to directing so much attention inwardly, they can fall into excessive ruminating and feel utterly consumed by negative thoughts and emotions. They might: make desperate attempts to escape from feelings of incompetence or powerlessness, overanalyze life issues but come up empty, run away from difficult or challenging situations instead of facing them head on due to a loss of self-confidence or crippling self-doubt, feel exhausted by indecisiveness and uncertainty, feel frustrated because of being unable to verbalize their negative feelings, become highly suspicious about people’s intentions or motives, display paranoid behaviors, feel drawn to mystical explanations about life’s grand purpose, become obsessed with finding spiritual meaning, seek out invisible or mysterious “signs” to guide their behaviors, or sometimes even adopt (or fall prey to) grandiose visions/beliefs/explanations/theories about the meaning of life or what will happen in the future. Ultimately, they lose their trusting nature and can no longer connect with the positive aspects of life, feel at a loss for how to proceed, feel desperate to understand themselves, and perhaps even believe that they deserve suffering because of their own perceived inadequacy or inferiority.

  10. #60
    Mastermind Fieldmarshal Sacrophagus's Avatar
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    @Digital Lion, you're shrewd, that is ostensible, but you can seriously use some mastery of sang froid. When you start spouting arguments in a belligerent manner, do not be surprised if your infliction invokes antagonism. Your intentions put aside, your vehemence often makes you appear as a vitriolic and overly arrogant know-it-all to others.
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