• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NF] Are Female NFs Sexually/Mentally Attracted to Male NTs?

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
Similar in thought, I tend to seek out the company of those that can broaden my perspective more. Not that I have a narrow scope on things, but the idea of expanding further and further is extremely exciting for me :happy2:

Same, except I specifically search out those that can challenge my views, thoughts, opinions, however rare those people are.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I've dated an ST, but I think we're too different for it to work well long-term between NFs and STs. NTs are still different enough, but the shared intuition smooths over some of the rough patches. Most of the NTs I've met have had an avoidant kind of attachment style. I'm not sure if that is just a small sample selection or a general trend. Whatever it is, I don't like how that makes me feel longer term in a closer relationship, even though I'm generally a pretty secure, independent person. However, the intellectual connection is usually very stimulating and expansive, and their capacity for not reacting fairly rationally to conflict has allowed me to experiment with being more honest and straightforward than I'd otherwise be.
 

adventureawaits

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
19
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
My two most significant relationships were with an INTP and an ENTJ. The connection ran so deep that I remain close with both to this day. I should note that both connections were built slowly over time & started as friendships, so not sure if I was incredibly attracted to them initially or what.

Otherwise, I seem to be crazy attracted to SJs (only one was officially typed, so I'm kind of guessing here) for some reason, but they ALL seem to end with a huge mess of hurt and anger. Maybe it's me. ;)
 

SurrealisticSlumbers

📠girl in an 🎠world
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
681
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Otherwise, I seem to be crazy attracted to SJs (only one was officially typed, so I'm kind of guessing here) for some reason, but they ALL seem to end with a huge mess of hurt and anger. Maybe it's me. ;)

It's not you.
 

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
I've dated an ST, but I think we're too different for it to work well long-term between NFs and STs. NTs are still different enough, but the shared intuition smooths over some of the rough patches. Most of the NTs I've met have had an avoidant kind of attachment style. I'm not sure if that is just a small sample selection or a general trend. Whatever it is, I don't like how that makes me feel longer term in a closer relationship, even though I'm generally a pretty secure, independent person. However, the intellectual connection is usually very stimulating and expansive, and their capacity for not reacting fairly rationally to conflict has allowed me to experiment with being more honest and straightforward than I'd otherwise be.

Can you describe avoidant attachment?

I think NFs are all we got! No offense to the other types, but the STs and SJs just don't get me and the NTs just, well, don't know, always been rejected.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,195
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My two most significant relationships were with an INTP and an ENTJ. The connection ran so deep that I remain close with both to this day. I should note that both connections were built slowly over time & started as friendships, so not sure if I was incredibly attracted to them initially or what.
This has been my experience as well. Everyone I have ever dated has started out first as a friend or close colleague. Plenty of time to figure out what kind of person the other is, and to build trust.

I really appreciate NFs, and NTs as well, though there is large variation within both groups. In some ways I have more differences with NTPs than with NFPs, though my longtime SO is INTP so we do work things out, and the low drama lifestyle is hard to beat.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,882
Yes, but I think I am more attracted to NPs than NTs because I haven't noticed myself crushing on NTJs much. I have dated mostly sensors though - until now (currently with an NFP).

I'm an INFJ woman, btw.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
Can you describe avoidant attachment?

I think NFs are all we got! No offense to the other types, but the STs and SJs just don't get me and the NTs just, well, don't know, always been rejected.

There are dismissive avoidant or fearful avoidant varieties of avoidant attachment styles. Psychology Today has several good articles on attachment styles.It boils down to whether or not there was a reliable supply of emotional support available to a child growing up. Too intrusive and needy or too neglectful signals the defensive part of the brain that it is not safe to rely on anyone else, allow them to get too close, or to be vulnerable, which makes it very hard to create an intimate friendship or romantic relationship where both parties can be honest about their needs.

In some contexts, an avoidant person may seek closeness and then find it stifling, avoid it entirely except in a very superficial way, be able to provide but not receive support, or run away when the other person has needs. Often, avoidant people get together with very anxious clingy people, but even someone who is securely attached can become anxious if the supply of reliable emotional exchange is overly scarce or it's feast or famine.

I've found that initially, T types are drawn to the intellectual connection we have and also find themselves telling me things or feeling things they never have with anyone else. This new sense of intimacy is unfamiliar and intoxicating at first. I am generally slow to be attracted to someone and need a strong base of friendship and connection first, so if anything, I'm the one that needs convincing and am happy to take a lot of time for a relationship to turn romantic. Even then, although I'm a pretty open and warm person, I don't open up immediately, which I think creates a sense of safety and leaves them pursuing connection rather than fending it off.

In several cases, I've been talked into rushing over concerns about the fundamental foundation of the relationship and how it not being firm or being out of sync on major issues will affect the future. As a result, I don't want to lose the person, but I also don't feel good about announcing it to the people closest to me until that's been figured out, even as the relationship is getting closer and closer.

This of course erodes trust and is felt as rejection. However, once i'm deeply invested, but that dynamic is in place, people revert to old patterns, or they start viewing the connection more realistically and draw back emotionally, which then makes me feel like I'm always the needy one, even though what I need is not at all over the top.

I've concluded that 1) putting the brakes on at the beginning, no matter how sure the other person is that this is a once in a lifetime kind of connection 2) observing if they have been emotionally intimate or vulnerable in any of their other relationships with people 3) looking at their relationship to their parents, especially their mothers 4) not mistaking intellectual attraction or intimacy for emotional intimacy would probably save everyone a lot of pain and be a good indicator of how successful something romantic is likely to be.

I'm not claiming this to be true of every Thinker, nor are my experiences representative of everyone else's, but I've observed the pattern in my own relationships frequently enough to think it worthy of comment. Clearly, I also am equally responsible for that negative dynamic being allowed to develop, just in case it sounds like I'm placing blame on thinker types generally or even the ones I've dated.
 

Red Ribbon

New member
Joined
May 14, 2017
Messages
241
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Can you describe avoidant attachment?

I think NFs are all we got! No offense to the other types, but the STs and SJs just don't get me and the NTs just, well, don't know, always been rejected.

I would take an SF over an NF any day. My partner is an INTP though. My favorite type is possibly INTP.
 

Abcdenfp

Terpsichore
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,669
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7W8
There are dismissive avoidant or fearful avoidant varieties of avoidant attachment styles. Psychology Today has several good articles on attachment styles.It boils down to whether or not there was a reliable supply of emotional support available to a child growing up. Too intrusive and needy or too neglectful signals the defensive part of the brain that it is not safe to rely on anyone else, allow them to get too close, or to be vulnerable, which makes it very hard to create an intimate friendship or romantic relationship where both parties can be honest about their needs. In some contexts, an avoidant person may seek closeness and then find it stifling, avoid it entirely except in a very superficial way, be able to provide but not receive support, or run away when the other person has needs. Often, avoidant people get together with very anxious clingy people, but even someone who is securely attached can become anxious if the supply of reliable emotional exchange is overly scarce or it's feast or famine. I've found that initially, T types are drawn to the intellectual connection we have and also find themselves telling me things or feeling things they never have with anyone else. This new sense of intimacy is unfamiliar and intoxicating at first. I am generally slow to be attracted to someone and need a strong base of friendship and connection first, so if anything, I'm the one that needs convincing and am happy to take a lot of time for a relationship to turn romantic. Even then, although I'm a pretty open and warm person, I don't open up immediately, which I think creates a sense of safety and leaves them pursuing connection rather than fending it off. In several cases, I've been talked into rushing over concerns about the fundamental foundation of the relationship and how it not being firm or being out of sync on major issues will affect the future. As a result, I don't want to lose the person, but I also don't feel good about announcing it to the people closest to me until that's been figured out, even as the relationship is getting closer and closer. This of course erodes trust and is felt as rejection. However, once i'm deeply invested, but that dynamic is in place, people revert to old patterns, or they start viewing the connection more realistically and draw back emotionally, which then makes me feel like I'm always the needy one, I've concluded that 1) putting the brakes on at the beginning, no matter how sure the other person is that this is a once in a lifetime kind of connection 2) observing if they have been emotionally intimate or vulnerable in any of their other relationships with people 3) looking at their relationship to their parents, especially their mothers 4) not mistaking intellectual attraction or intimacy for emotional intimacy would probably save everyone a lot of pain and be a good indicator of how successful something romantic is likely to be. I'm not claiming this to be true of every Thinker, nor are my experiences representative of everyone else's, but I've observed the pattern in my own relationships frequently enough to think it worthy of comment. Clearly, I also am equally responsible for that negative dynamic being allowed to develop, just in case it sounds like I'm placing blame on thinker types generally or even the ones I've dated.
I woke up to read this and so much of this is crazy accurate. Not even as a type but just in general.
"It boils down to whether or not there was a reliable supply of emotional support available to a child growing up. Too intrusive and needy or too neglectful signals the defensive part of the brain that it is not safe to rely on anyone else, allow them to get too close, or to be vulnerable, which makes it very hard to create an intimate friendship or romantic relationship where both parties can be honest about their needs"
this I can relate too 100%. I am going in search of this article. I think this applies to how someone handles intimacy regardless of type. intimacy is the point here.

As a result, I don't want to lose the person, but I also don't feel good about announcing it to the people closest to me until that's been figured out, even as the relationship is getting closer and closer. This of course erodes trust and is felt as rejection. However, once i'm deeply invested, but that dynamic is in place, people revert to old patterns, or they start viewing the connection more realistically and draw back emotionally, which then makes me feel like I'm always the needy one, even though my needs are not over the top"
THIS is why I came to typology to get a better understanding of patterns and why I continue to choose the same "type" of person Who isn't emotionally intelligent enough to meet me where I am, and give me the support I need, in the way that helps me feel safe to share and grow the relationship with myself and with others.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I wasn't sure before if I should post all that, so I'm glad if it was useful to someone.
 

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
There are dismissive avoidant or fearful avoidant varieties of avoidant attachment styles. Psychology Today has several good articles on attachment styles.It boils down to whether or not there was a reliable supply of emotional support available to a child growing up. Too intrusive and needy or too neglectful signals the defensive part of the brain that it is not safe to rely on anyone else, allow them to get too close, or to be vulnerable, which makes it very hard to create an intimate friendship or romantic relationship where both parties can be honest about their needs.

In some contexts, an avoidant person may seek closeness and then find it stifling, avoid it entirely except in a very superficial way, be able to provide but not receive support, or run away when the other person has needs. Often, avoidant people get together with very anxious clingy people, but even someone who is securely attached can become anxious if the supply of reliable emotional exchange is overly scarce or it's feast or famine.

I've found that initially, T types are drawn to the intellectual connection we have and also find themselves telling me things or feeling things they never have with anyone else. This new sense of intimacy is unfamiliar and intoxicating at first. I am generally slow to be attracted to someone and need a strong base of friendship and connection first, so if anything, I'm the one that needs convincing and am happy to take a lot of time for a relationship to turn romantic. Even then, although I'm a pretty open and warm person, I don't open up immediately, which I think creates a sense of safety and leaves them pursuing connection rather than fending it off.

In several cases, I've been talked into rushing over concerns about the fundamental foundation of the relationship and how it not being firm or being out of sync on major issues will affect the future. As a result, I don't want to lose the person, but I also don't feel good about announcing it to the people closest to me until that's been figured out, even as the relationship is getting closer and closer.

This of course erodes trust and is felt as rejection. However, once i'm deeply invested, but that dynamic is in place, people revert to old patterns, or they start viewing the connection more realistically and draw back emotionally, which then makes me feel like I'm always the needy one, even though what I need is not at all over the top.

I've concluded that 1) putting the brakes on at the beginning, no matter how sure the other person is that this is a once in a lifetime kind of connection 2) observing if they have been emotionally intimate or vulnerable in any of their other relationships with people 3) looking at their relationship to their parents, especially their mothers 4) not mistaking intellectual attraction or intimacy for emotional intimacy would probably save everyone a lot of pain and be a good indicator of how successful something romantic is likely to be.

I'm not claiming this to be true of every Thinker, nor are my experiences representative of everyone else's, but I've observed the pattern in my own relationships frequently enough to think it worthy of comment. Clearly, I also am equally responsible for that negative dynamic being allowed to develop, just in case it sounds like I'm placing blame on thinker types generally or even the ones I've dated.

Probably the most accurate perspective on this subject. And wow its like you know me!
I feel like I am cold to most people but when i like someone i can get attached. Wanting to have either pysical or mental contact all the time, sounds clingy i know.
But now u explained it better i think the first 3 suggestions you made were for me specifically.
The last one, well whats the difference between intellectual/emotional intimacy?
 

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
I wasn't sure before if I should post all that, so I'm glad if it was useful to someone.

I hope its useful to you as well, and all the typology knowledge in the world cant predict behavior, only identify the pattern after the fact.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
Re intellectual intimacy - I'd define it as getting closer over discussing thoughts and ideas together. That's something that I feel is essential in a relationship, and is hugely attractive to me, but without the capacity for sustained emotional intimacy, it is not enough.

I find avoidant people manifest the need for distance in a variety of ways:. They may hold back include things like sharing basic information about their schedule without the other person having to ask or be in limbo, may not be willing to tell the other person where they are at in the relationship, offer a showroom version of vulnerability to satisfy others, while actually living their real life in other emotional rooms of their mind's house, don't share their real plans or opinions, offer their skills but having nothing to learn from the other person, avoid the other person when they are in need, subtly devalue traits of or skills of the other person, insist things are fine but do things that would suggest otherwise which keeps the other person perpetually unsure, seek closeness and then distance in a cyclical way, only allow one sort of intimacy to develop (particularly sexual or intellectual), avoid bids for touch initiated by the other person, intensely court with great urgency and uncharacteristic openness and then gradually become distant, only show interest in their own projects or interests without reciprocating or only enough to be polite, pursue success at the expense of relationship, stay in the driver's seat at all times, affecting people's perceptions of reality in subtle ways, become passive but disengaged (maybe even secretly despising the person they are with), always are the one to turn down offers of time together with other people in their lives or end relationships, use humour to distance people... I don't think most of it is really planned out, nor is the intent bad, but it is destructive all the same.

No one has to remain stuck in one attachment style, but often with no active and compelling catalyst, they may not even see the pattern in themselves. It takes active work to allow the brains defenses to relax a bit at a time and to also seek out a secure partner or friends who don't exacerbate the dynamic.

I feel like maybe NTs have a unique set of needs as kids too that are sometimes not well understood by a parent that may perhaps make them more susceptible to an avoidant style of attaching. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's a theory of mine.
 

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
Re intellectual intimacy - I'd define it as getting closer over discussing thoughts and ideas together. That's something that I feel is essential in a relationship, and is hugely attractive to me, but without the capacity for sustained emotional intimacy, it is not enough.

I find avoidant people manifest the need for distance in a variety of ways:. They may hold back include things like sharing basic information about their schedule without the other person having to ask or be in limbo, may not be willing to tell the other person where they are at in the relationship, offer a showroom version of vulnerability to satisfy others, while actually living their real life in other emotional rooms of their mind's house, don't share their real plans or opinions, offer their skills but having nothing to learn from the other person, avoid the other person when they are in need, subtly devalue traits of or skills of the other person, insist things are fine but do things that would suggest otherwise which keeps the other person perpetually unsure, seek closeness and then distance in a cyclical way, only allow one sort of intimacy to develop (particularly sexual or intellectual), avoid bids for touch initiated by the other person, intensely court with great urgency and uncharacteristic openness and then gradually become distant, only show interest in their own projects or interests without reciprocating or only enough to be polite, pursue success at the expense of relationship, stay in the driver's seat at all times, affecting people's perceptions of reality in subtle ways, become passive but disengaged (maybe even secretly despising the person they are with), always are the one to turn down offers of time together with other people in their lives or end relationships, use humour to distance people... I don't think most of it is really planned out, nor is the intent bad, but it is destructive all the same.

No one has to remain stuck in one attachment style, but often with no active and compelling catalyst, they may not even see the pattern in themselves. It takes active work to allow the brains defenses to relax a bit at a time and to also seek out a secure partner or friends who don't exacerbate the dynamic.

I feel like maybe NTs have a unique set of needs as kids too that are sometimes not well understood by a parent that may perhaps make them more susceptible to an avoidant style of attaching. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's a theory of mine.

After doing some research on the topic, I unfortunately identify with dismissive avoidance.

I find myself falling very quickly for that special person, sharing everything, even my thought processes when experiencing feelings, but then instead of retreating, I truly feel this way and will continue to be "attached", though not in the sense you would imagine a Fe Dom/aux but attached nonetheless. This avoidance results in extreme jealousy beyond what would be considered a turn on, imagining many scenarios of me being lied to/disinformed.

This has only happened with 2 women in my life, the rest were "stable" which then made me stable as well, but like dismissive avoidant types, I find myself attracted to NFs and NTs and I imagine due to the intuition/thinking-feeling that we have the most issues.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I think it's good to at least be able to notice and articulate those patterns because it brings them into the realm of conscious awareness where they are considerably easier to dismantle. You would find Neufeld's Six Levels of attaching from his book Hold Onto Your Kids very helpful re the jealousy part. Many men get stuck in the third one and don't move farther. It is loyalty and belonging and at its best is a great thing, but jealousy is the darkside to it. Each way of attaching usually has something lacking and should keep propelling us through ever increasing types of attachment till we reach being understood psychologically. Ideally children go through each of these steps in the first six years of their life and then during adolescence or adulthood we reexperience those stages but with intention and awareness. Neufeld has done some fascinating work on the subject of attachment and the impact it had on emotional maturation. His work focussed primarily on children but is very useful for adults as well. The idea is that when healthy hierarchical attachments (parent or teacher with child, God or other deity to adult etc) with the alpha providing more than is being requested emotionally are strong, maturation is a process that comes about very naturally. The defenses have to be soft and the recipient vulnerable (need safe circumstances) for that attachment to develop, but when it does, it is amazing how it impacts the person. We are creatures of attachment, so when that is awry, it affects us very fundamentally.
 

EnnisPreit

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2017
Messages
149
MBTI Type
°Nt
I think it's good to at least be able to notice and articulate those patterns because it brings them into the realm of conscious awareness where they are considerably easier to dismantle. You would find Neufeld's Six Levels of attaching from his book Hold Onto Your Kids very helpful re the jealousy part. Many men get stuck in the third one and don't move farther. It is loyalty and belonging and at its best is a great thing, but jealousy is the darkside to it. Each way of attaching usually has something lacking and should keep propelling us through ever increasing types of attachment till we reach being understood psychologically. Ideally children go through each of these steps in the first six years of their life and then during adolescence or adulthood we reexperience those stages but with intention and awareness. Neufeld has done some fascinating work on the subject of attachment and the impact it had on emotional maturation. His work focussed primarily on children but is very useful for adults as well. The idea is that when healthy hierarchical attachments (parent or teacher with child, God or other deity to adult etc) with the alpha providing more than is being requested emotionally are strong, maturation is a process that comes about very naturally. The defenses have to be soft and the recipient vulnerable (need safe circumstances) for that attachment to develop, but when it does, it is amazing how it impacts the person. We are creatures of attachment, so when that is awry, it affects us very fundamentally.

Absolutely and well said. Thanks for the reference as well, I will be checking it out.

As for me, I am confident with my ability to think, intuit, sense, but feeling is my weakness. Its not that I dont have emotions, I actually think I have more than feelers. The problem lies in my ability to be loved. I can love well, and go above and beyond for that special someone, but i guess its hard to let myself be loved. I either expect nothing, which is usually with a stable type (problem is I find it boring and think, oh this person cannot be for me, theyre too normal), and it makes me feel like im wasting mr precious time, resulting a break up (usually a shared consensus and peaceful)
The other scenario is smothering the shit out of her but distrusting her at the same time, but always requiring her to prove her love, only making the trust worse. Eventually the distrust becomes evident and it crashes and burns.

Looking forward to fixing that!
 
Top