[NF] ever asked "do we really have to do anything in this world?"

[redacted]

Right. So objectively, the word "meaning" has no meaning. There is no objective concept of meaning.

"What's the meaning of life?" seems to be a question that tries to get at the nature of things from the outside perspective. The answer is that there is no answer. We can't see the outside perspective.

Maybe there's an objective "meaning of life", but we'll never know. Practically, there is no "meaning of life", only an interpretation -- our own meaning.

But that means that we're alone. That's the scary thing for most people.

 

[redacted]

I remember you making claims of divinity before. heehee

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/graveyard/8829-fundie-preaching-split.html

Your posts should be in this new thread now.

 

[ajblaise]

I remember you making claims of divinity before. heehee

shhhhh damnit no one's suppose to know yet, I let it slip. I lost my plane ticket to get to the Holy Land, so my proclamation is on hold.

 

[Bella]

shhhhh damnit no one's suppose to know yet, I let it slip. I lost my plane ticket to get to the Holy Land, so my proclamation is on hold.

:yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[ajblaise]

Right. So objectively, the word "meaning" has no meaning. There is no objective concept of meaning.

"What's the meaning of life?" seems to be a question that tries to get at the nature of things from the outside perspective. The answer is that there is no answer. We can't see the outside perspective.

Maybe there's an objective "meaning of life", but we'll never know. Practically, there is no "meaning of life", only an interpretation -- our own meaning.

But that means that we're alone. That's the scary thing for most people.

Yes, as far as we're concerned, there is no outside perspective. There could be dimensions or even life around us that we can't even perceive.

I'd say that there could be some great objective meaning to life and the universe, but we can't answer that question, only theorize, however the answer exists out there.

 

[niki]

scientifically-speaking, if only we can find what's really happening when t (time) = 0 (zero) , meaning at the very beginning of the Universe, then we might find what's really the meaning of this Universe, and hence, the meaning of our life (not through some man-made holy books, sorry to say).
ever heard the most-recent experiment called LHC (large Hauldron Collider) done by large group of scientists? i think this is what they're trying to find out , ie: the answer to everything, when
t = 0!

i've been discussing this a lot with my INTJ cousin, for months..
and strangely, ultimately , and fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on ur perspective) , it seems like the ultimate answer seems to be "since there's no real objective meaning to each of our life, then living a hedonistic & short-term have-fun-to-the-fullest life might seems to be the best answer.
but that eventually only make me & him depressed, because then we see how those 'bad guys' get all the pleasures and enjoyment of this 'futile' world & universe!
while us two, still have to shut down our 'meaningless' talk, and get back to our boring daily 9-to-5 office-work ! how depressing it is! :/

 

[ajblaise]

scientifically-speaking, if only we can find what's really happening when t (time) = 0 (zero) , meaning at the very beginning of the Universe, then we might find what's really the meaning of this Universe, and hence, the meaning of our life (not through some man-made holy books, sorry to say).

i've been discussing this a lot with my INTJ cousin, for months..
and strangely, ultimately , and fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on ur perspective) , it seems like the ultimate answer seems to be "since there's no real objective meaning to each of our life, then living a hedonistic & short-term have-fun-to-the-fullest life might seems to be the best answer.
but that eventually only make me & him depressed, because then we see how those 'bad guys' get all the pleasures and enjoyment of this 'futile' world & universe!
while us two, still have to shut down our 'meaningless' talk, and get back to our boring daily 9-to-5 office-work ! how depressing it is! :/

Short term pleasure is good, but a true hedonist plans for long term pleasure.

 

[Jack Flak]

Short term pleasure is good, but a true hedonist plans for long term pleasure.

Classically speaking, that's the opposite of hedonism, and is why hedonists are considered flawed by, say, the religious types.

 

[niki]

oh yeah, you're right.. i mean 'long-term' pleasure, meaning living a life 100% full of pleasures.

but would we really find 'meaning' after we've done all that? the 'ultimate' fulfillment?
or we'd just get more depressed?

 

[ajblaise]

Classically speaking, that's the opposite of hedonism, and is why hedonists are considered flawed by, say, the religious types.

How do you figure? Hedonism = devotion to pleasure. Why can't the short/long pleasure distinction be made it doesn't make sense? Are you talking about pleasure in the afterlife?

 

[ajblaise]

oh yeah, you're right.. i mean 'long-term' pleasure, meaning living a life 100% full of pleasures.

but would we really find 'meaning' after we've done all that? the 'ultimate' fulfillment?
or we'd just get more depressed?

If you get depressed, you're not being a good hedonist. If "ultimate fulfillment" is what would please you or make you happy, then trying to obtain can definitely be explained as hedonistic.

 

[Jack Flak]

How do you figure? Hedonism = devotion to pleasure. Why can't the short/long pleasure distinction be made it doesn't make sense? Are you talking about pleasure in the afterlife?

You can take the definition that far if you want, I suppose, but the traditional definition is seeking short-term sensory pleasure.

 

[ajblaise]

You can take the definition that far if you want, I suppose, but the traditional definition is one who seeks short-term sensory pleasure.

I don't see "short term" or anything meaning it in the dictionary definitions.

Maybe you're equating "pleasing the senses" to "short-term pleasure".

 

[Jack Flak]

I don't see "short term" or anything meaning it in the dictionary.

Maybe you're equating "pleasing the senses" to "short-term pleasure".

I didn't look it up, I was just going by what the word actually has meant forever.

It would be logical to make that equation, because you can only please the senses for so long before the pleasure turns to pain.

 

[ajblaise]

I didn't look it up, I was just going by what the word actually has meant forever.

According to what? The Invisible Dictionary?

It would be logical to make that equation, because you can only please the senses for so long before the pleasure turns to pain.

People can make plans to have their senses pleased in the future/long term too.

 

[Jack Flak]

You've apparently won this debate, because of: *exit*

 

[redacted]

Short term pleasure is good, but a true hedonist plans for long term pleasure.

A true hedonist weighs short term against long term.

 

[ajblaise]

Right.

 

[Bella]

I'm going to split the God stuff out of here because it's off-topic and seems like it's going to turn into a God vs. skepticism debate. Link here.

Bella, please remember that while you're entitled to voice your opinions and beliefs, people here don't like to be preached to. This isn't the right thread for that, nor the right site. If you'd like to start a thread about God, go for it. Just be mindful of the religious moralizing.

But someone's gotta bring the WOOOORD, brother Edahn!

 

[babelfish]

Existence is undoubtedly problematic and disturbing. In Sartre's "Peanuts," Schulz succinctly describes the horror of discovering one's own existence in the world:

Linus: I'm aware of my tongue... It's an awful feeling! Every now and then I become aware that I have a tongue inside my mouth, and then it starts to feel lumped up... I can't help it... I can't put it out of my mind... I keep thinking about where my tongue would be if I weren't thinking about it, and then I can feel it sort of pressing against my teeth...

Sartre devoted an entire book to this experience – his 1938 novel "Nausea" in which his character Roquentin is alarmed to discover his own actuality. But Linus sums the point up very well in a few frames.

The movie "The Ice Harvest" exemplifies the same idea — because these are characters who are clearly on the existential slide; life has very little meaning for them. Billy Bob said to John, "If you are what you do, and you never do anything, then what the fuck are you?" And then John says, "So what do you want to do?" And Billy Bob says, "I don't know." And so they hatch the plan to commit the crime. It's like a joke setup: "Two guys are sitting in a bar..."

Each person potentially is the world's best expert on himself and has the best information about himself. What drives a person to live, interact with the environment, his "motivation" if you will, is the overall characteristic of simply being alive. No special concepts are required to understand why people are motivated and active: every person is motivated for no other reason that he is alive. The individual IS what he DOES and comes to know his nature by seeing what he is doing. There is no human nature -- man simply IS, and he is nothing else but what he makes of himself.