[INFJ] Are INFJS ever aware that perfection doesn't exist and some other things.

[Virgo1987]

This is meant to be casual or it can mean something deeper if someone rather see it that way.

I'm just curious as to how INFJs deal with their need for perfection. In a world full of sin, if the littlest thing sets them off, are they wanting to be by themselves?

Does it truly get better as they age or does it continue all the way through their lives where they will react in such ways that come across rude and cold, only to insist on needing space as well as energy?

I just wonder about it sometimes. Their personality sometimes comes across to me as like living in a land of enchantment -- like a fictional world or a book they might have read.

How do they get by in the real world? So many different people and personalities not just in personal time but in professional time. Get by as in how do they deal with people in everyday life?

Every time I take time out to read about an infj I just sit there thinking that one minute I should attempt to reach out in one direction only to get to the bottom or the middle of the page to find out that my first idea won't work and that I should try another or that in reality they don't care about anything you have said so you pretty much mean nothing at all to them.

What I always walk away with is that if youre not 100 percent perfect in their mindset of perfection, you aren't deserving if their time. In short, nothing in this world is going to make them happy.

Also, just curious, do INFJs have a sense of humor at all? Does anything truly make them laugh? Do they react carefree of anything in the world?

And for those who aren't an INFJ... have you ever felt yourself trying to take everything they say or don't say (you've read about it and applied it to someone you know ) about themselves and work with it or work with them to try to help them along -- only to find out you've failed? And that your good intentions were just met with constant annoyance or igorance?

Basically, have they ever exhausted you to a point you just felt the energy that the INFJ values so much just drain from your body, especially your mind?

And if the greatest or one of the greatest things with INFJ is feeling so hard, why is it that they never seem to have the ability to feel outside if their own feelings?

Meaning do they truly care about other people's feelings more than their own?

 

[Norrsken]

Tell us more about your recent break up. -slides tissue box towards you-
No, I'm kidding, but this all sound very personal and emotional charged. Some of those questions doesn't even sound type related, but coming from something else. Care to clarify about where all of this is coming from?

 

[Numbly Aware]

 

[Virgo1987]

Tell us more about your recent break up. -slides tissue box towards you-
No, I'm kidding, but this all sound very personal and emotional charged. Some of those questions doesn't even sound type related, but coming from something else. Care to clarify about where all of this is coming from?

Some of it is personal, but other INFJs I've met since then seem to be along the same wave length. There is no mercy or so it seems.

A few posts elsewhere about unhealthy infj's rang very true in my opinion.

I guess I just feel badly for them while at the same time being annoyed with them. I'm no saint either, I know about all the terrible and toxic things infps are sometimes or usually do or say by infj's and other types.

I just wonder how reality looks to them. How do they handle life. No one fits perfection it's like having an illusion... which is fine when you're a kid or a growing teenager, but in the adult world of work, play, and overall life... how do they function?

If everyone is out to get them... where does that stem from and how do they function in the real world?

How do they exist in the world when they paint themselves of being right all the time and point out a person's flaws instead of holding up a mirror and seeing that they basically are the sake way.

I applaud them for having a mindset that's locked like a vice, but I also feel like they allow more pain into their lives than needed. I feel like they live inside their heads to the point they are unable to think outside of it and therefore that smothers them in some way.

It's just no fun for an outsider who cares about an infj with this much emotional baggage going on. No fun not in the sense that oh god, would all the melodramatic behavior stop, but just no fun in the sense that the infj is suffering and falling deeper into the abyss and no matter how much you reach out (as well as providing space) you worry that infj is just gonna throw their dreams away because they can't face criticism in the real world. Or ratherx they can't face the real world head-on.

So I think it's a mixture. It isn't just infj, but a depressed or a unhealthy infj. I see it both ways while months ago I just saw it as stereotypically of infjs. Though like I said I've met other infj's (there's a ton of them online...) and they all say the ssme.thing. they all feel they know what's best for themselvws, other people, and the interaction they have together and it all just comes across as controlling and just created out of this world of perfection where perfection doesn't even exist.

 

[Norrsken]

You gave yourself the answers to your own questions. Unhealthy INFJs can be a lot to handle, and it usually takes a life altering experience for us to recognize our own toxic patterns and to develop ourselves into more rational beings. We are very idealistic to the point of ridiculousness. You are right about that. But, just like everybody else, it just takes time for a young INFJ to grow into themselves and to stop painting themselves as helpless martyrs whom everybody likes to bully for fun. The victim mentality is just so seductive for us to pin ourselves to, and it is through experiences that we learn to not hold ourselves and other people to impossible standards. Life is just not like it is portrayed in the movies.. a hard one for me to swallow.

You can't save us. That's our job.

 

[Virgo1987]

And this is exactly what I mean. This is what makes it just so dammed if you do and damned if you don't. If an INFJ with this mindset is a friend or a relative in your life, how in God's name do you help them?

 

[Jaguar]

In a world full of sin, if the littlest thing sets them off, are they wanting to be by themselves?

A world full of sin. Is that your belief or theirs?

 

[Virgo1987]

You gave yourself the answers to your own questions. Unhealthy INFJs can be a lot to handle, and it usually takes a life altering experience for us to recognize our own toxic patterns and to develop ourselves into more rational beings. We are very idealistic to the point of ridiculousness. You are right about that. But, just like everybody else, it just takes time for a young INFJ to grow into themselves and to stop painting themselves as helpless martyrs whom everybody likes to bully for fun. The victim mentality is just so seductive for us to pin ourselves to, and it is through experiences that we learn to not hold ourselves and other people to impossible standards. Life is just not like it is portrayed in the movies.. a hard one for me to swallow.

You can't save us. That's our job.

What is classified as young age wise?

It's just such a complicated issue. Because after my confusion and hurt faded away, I saw what was underneath it all or I assumed it to be. Everything I was told I was... emotional vampire, toxic, selfish, and so forth I started to realize while reading that the infj shared either the same or more than me.

Toxic behavior exists in the world. So much of it doesn't even phase people because they're so used to reacting a certain way. I wouldn't blame any type for being toxic or behaving in such a way if it wasn't deliberate. But I'm able to accept people as who they are. It doesn't mean I have to like them, but I'd never let the bad outweigh thr good in someone who was close to me. That just seems like having too much of a choke hold on perfection.

So after I got over being hurt and having my self esteem stepped on, I started to focus in on myself and try to fix what someone close to me had pointed out. I thought the same would go for my infj friend but it didn't happen.

What if the infj sides too much with darkness? I know people can't be saved, but it isn't as if they fade from your thougts. It isn't as if them behaving in such a way makes it easy to know if you're overstepping boundried or not.

Basically, you're not going to just forget about them.

I guess I wonder if through everything I said, though they don't directly ask for it and they most likely won't say thanks, does it make a difference.

I understand it's within themselves but outside people, I would imagine, or myself really, tend to want to help as in sending little notes or a quick hey.

I don't mind not getting a reply back anymore, I just wonder if I'm doing the right thing by showing I care or treating the person like they're just like everybody else. As in not bringing up what's wrong but just trying to include them in my everyday life. Like calling a friend and saying hey... I tend to do that to several friends in one day every so often.

 

[Virgo1987]

A world full of sin. Is that your belief or theirs?

Theirs. I'm saying when the bad and negative things on every level bother them. Where they know of good things, but feel they are hard to come by, they don't exist, or they're nothing but lies.

 

[Jaguar]

Theirs. I'm saying when the bad and negative things on every level bother them. Where they know of good things, but feel they are hard to come by, they don't exist, or they're nothing but lies.

And you actually think that applies to INFJs only? Are your serious?

 

[Numbly Aware]

This is meant to be casual or it can mean something deeper if someone rather see it that way.

I'm just curious as to how INFJs deal with their need for perfection. In a world full of sin, if the littlest thing sets them off, are they wanting to be by themselves?

Depends on how stuck-up they are. Once they are comfortable in their "alone zone" that basically becomes their security blanket, and everyone else is old news.

Does it truly get better as they age or does it continue all the way through their lives where they will react in such ways that come across rude and cold, only to insist on needing space as well as energy?

I heard this was stereotypical female. Maybe just human?

I just wonder about it sometimes. Their personality sometimes comes across to me as like living in a land of enchantment -- like a fictional world or a book they might have read.

Any insecure individual who thinks they are excluded to a "better world" will present this behavior.
Also, it's not our fault we're floating balloons. *one day I hope to reach outer space
Maybe it's a defense to avoid problems.

How do they get by in the real world? So many different people and personalities not just in personal time but in professional time. Get by as in how do they deal with people in everyday life?

They probably sound like robots.

Every time I take time out to read about an infj I just sit there thinking that one minute I should attempt to reach out in one direction only to get to the bottom or the middle of the page to find out that my first idea won't work and that I should try another or that in reality they don't care about anything you have said so you pretty much mean nothing at all to them.

This is true.

What I always walk away with is that if youre not 100 percent perfect in their mindset of perfection, you aren't deserving if their time. In short, nothing in this world is going to make them happy.

The majority of the time. But, the nature makes INFJs happy.... indulging in Se makes them happy.

Maybe they desire someone to take them to another planet, introduce them to a new world. #science_fiction

Also, just curious, do INFJs have a sense of humor at all? Does anything truly make them laugh? Do they react carefree of anything in the world?

INFPs.... are the ONLY ones who can truly make an INFJ rofl for no reason. Other types just tend to be professional and calculative humor.
okay, yeah, they'll give you the occasional "nothing makes me laugh face."

And for those who aren't an INFJ... have you ever felt yourself trying to take everything they say or don't say (you've read about it and applied it to someone you know ) about themselves and work with it or work with them to try to help them along -- only to find out you've failed? And that your good intentions were just met with constant annoyance or ignorance?

Basically, have they ever exhausted you to a point you just felt the energy that the INFJ values so much just drain from your body, especially your mind?

Level: difficulty

And if the greatest or one of the greatest things with INFJ is feeling so hard, why is it that they never seem to have the ability to feel outside if their own feelings?

Because they're not manipulative. And it's hard to understand something they never experienced before.

Meaning do they truly care about other people's feelings more than their own?

No. But, they try to compromise for both happiness.
One who cannot love himself, cannot not truly love another.
If they cannot respect their feelings, then they cannot truly respect yours, either.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I see a lot of projection in all these threads.

Try to be less screwed up in your own self and stop trying to fix everyone else.

You know, the old parable, about the mote and the beam.......

People are screwed up because we are human. But we are screwed up in unique ways. All growth is ultimately internal, and only helping ourselves.

So if you want to talk about screwed up people, maybe it is best to not attack people of other types......

 

[Virgo1987]

Depends on how stuck-up they are. Once they are comfortable in their "alone zone" that basically becomes their security blanket, and everyone else is old news.

I heard this was hot and sexy. XD (But, I heard this was stereotypical female) Maybe just human?


Any insecure individual who thinks they are excluded to a "better world" will present this behavior.
Also, it's not our fault we're floating balloons. *one day I hope to reach outer space

They probably sound like robots.


This is true.

The majority of the time. But, the nature makes INFJs happy.... indulging in Se makes them happy.

Maybe they desire someone to take them to another planet, introduce them to a new world. #science_fiction


INFPs.... are the ONLY ones who can truly make an INFJ rofl for no reason. Other types just tend to be professional humor.
yeah, they'll give you the occasional "nothing makes me laugh face."


Level: difficulty

Because they're not manipulative. And it's hard to understand something they never experienced before.


No. But, they try to compromise for both happiness.
One who cannot love himself, cannot not truly love another.
If they cannot respect their feelings, then they cannot truly respect yours, either.

I find that shocking. I usually never try to make the other personality types in my life laugh. The infj, I tried...and tried...and tried.

Stereotypically infj's love nature? The infjs I know hate it completely. Too many bugs. If anything I find then love city life. Interesting.

Everyone is more or less manipulative. I don't think intentionally most of the time, but I think infj's feel manipulation is entirely bad most of the time. I could be wrong though.

 

[Virgo1987]

I see a lot of projection in all these threads.

Try to be less screwed up in your own self and stop trying to fix everyone else.

You know, the old parable, about the mote and the beam.......

People are screwed up because we are human. But we are screwed up in unique ways. All growth is ultimately internal, and only helping ourselves.

So if you want to talk about screwed up people, maybe it is best to not attack people of other types......

I find this hilarious if it's directed to me. I have found out what's wrong with who I am, but the difference is I take note to it more often than not and I don't go around shrinking people either or trying to label them.

When people feel the need to find the faults of others while ignoring their own then that's when things get annoying and very judgemental.

The number one infj in my life likes to label everyone that hurts them. Instead of adapting to how someone is because of reasons x,y,and z, what ive come to notice is that there is no room for doing that in their lives. Either they can't handle it or in reality, they aren't aware of how they're looking at everyone except themselves.

I'm not even going to feel badly about creating this thread where I did. More times than not infj's seem to take so many things personally as well as wrong. In the past I did, but if someone has to edit themselves in every single way in order not to offend an infj it doesn't really make the conversation go anywhere.

They can guard themselves carefully hut they shouldn't expect other people to do it every single minute of the day. People rooted in reality do not react that way or such an extreme.

And though Ive said all that I have, I still don't intentionally mean any harm or hurt to infj's for the millionth time.

 

[Numbly Aware]

I find that shocking. I usually never try to make the other personality types in my life laugh. The infj, I tried...and tried...and tried.

That's where you're wrong. You don't try, you just be. (Am I suspecting your attraction toward an INFJ? ...for "trying" so hard)

I always laugh when they're serious. Or I laugh when they are laughing at something else cute. Like what planet are you from XD

*misunderstandings are key to get along, and respect.
As soon as you try to define things, that's when fights erupt: values vs values.

Stereotypically infj's love nature? The infjs I know hate it completely. Too many bugs.

Of course they "hate" it

INFJs like Se, which can be expressed in many ways.

They like indulging in things.

If anything I find then love city life. Interesting.

People, life, that's probably.. Or maybe:

Or even they like "disappearing" in the crowd, maybe wanting to be noticed slightly? idk

Everyone is more or less manipulative. I don't think intentionally most of the time, but I think infj's feel manipulation is entirely bad most of the time. I could be wrong though.

Whether it's wrong or right, cannot be determined. It just makes INFJs disgusted.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The dynamics you describe sound like a plausible unhealthy INFJ, but there are also environment specific issues at play. Some of the answers for how to relate to this person will come from their individual experience and not being "INFJ" only. Your experiences sounds deeply complex, and I hesitate to offer any "advice" because there is no way I can know enough. The only input I can think of that might be useful fyi is to describe feelings I have that relate to what you have described -in the case it provides a useful reinterpretation of someone's behavior. Although I think people of the similar types can be fundamentally different from each other.

Ni-doms individuality is so distinct that they are at odds with the outside world. While this may be expressed as disappointment the world is imperfect, I think the core of it is simply that the external world of people is incompatible. For myself I find imperfection is what creates beauty. A perfectly formed crystal is the shape of its atomic structure and each one is identical. It is the random influences upon a crystal that give it its uniqueness and beauty. Imperfections in people are often their purest beauty.

I will confess to being an INF who wants to withdraw from the world, and I feel a lot of pain and disappointment. There is a funny way I don't judge it, but feel more confused by it. I see how people interact, notice the way it hurts me, but also notice that they seem to like it that way among themselves. If other people want it that way, it is their prerogative, but hopefully I also have the right to have my own choice about how to live. Alot of it though, is just a feeling of freedom that maybe I'm not required to conform all the time and be involved. Maybe I can have permission to be alone and embrace what I find most beautiful and uplifting. I can wish the world all the best, but allow myself to be separate. I like to see other people be free to live authentically. It would help a lot of people to be able to feel freedom to not have to always interact and conform. That permission may be helpful in interactions.

I embrace criticism from individuals who have the credibility to offer it. Because I've analyzed my own flaws and internal world so extensively, I find flippant criticisms to be patronizing. Even in the discomfort of it, I've appreciated criticisms from respected professors for my creative endeavors, which at times were very harsh and uncomfortable. I've valued personal criticisms from professional counselors over the year of my life. I'm careful to work with a counselor I find intelligent and insightful and then during sessions i am brutally honest about my flaws and receive feedback gladly. The drive by criticisms by online strangers seem absurd to me most of the time, so I don't welcome all criticisms and advice. From friends and family I'll listen if their motives are sincere.

For people who cannot hear criticisms from friends and family, it may be worth asking "what are they hearing?" They may be so internally self-critical that they have an inwardly turned megaphone. In those cases, it can be helpful to try to draw them out to describe their own flaws, rather than dictating them. By offering up honest descriptions of your own shortcomings, it can create a safer place for both people to talk about their flaws. Also if there is distrust about the motivation, that can close someone off. When I think someone is manipulating me, I won't confess my flaws, but that doesn't mean I couldn't write a book about my shortcomings. If someone is offering up a lot of criticism, but not willing to take it, then that is another level of issue that goes beyond type. If they criticize you, but reject your criticisms, I would take the literal criticism they gave you and ask how would they feel if you told them "......" and repeat exactly what they said mirrored back at them. I actually did that once. A "boyfriend" wrote me an incredibly mean Christmas card full of criticisms, so I called him up and read him the card. I asked how would he feel if I had sent him that card.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

You have two threads criticizing INFJs. The language you use assumes facts not established. Let me look at your OP.

The very title of the thread "Are INFJs ever aware that perfection doesn’t exist and some other things" is immediately critical and hostile. It is insulting and condescending.

Yet I suspect you can't even see that.

This is meant to be casual or it can mean something deeper if someone rather see it that way.

I'm just curious as to how INFJs deal with their need for perfection. In a world full of sin, if the littlest thing sets them off, are they wanting to be by themselves?

Ouch, look at all those assumptions. Where is your evidence that "INFJs need perfection"? They might see better ways, but usually consider the feelings of others and are slow to be meanspirited or hypercritical. IME, it is a very different type that gets hyper critical and insensitive.

And "if the littlest thing sets them off", wowsers. IME, INFJs are actually the opposite. They accommodate to great ends before they let themselves be set off.

"Are they wanting to be by themselves" is a regular feature of INFJs and introverts, given that is how most introverts recharge.

Does it truly get better as they age or does it continue all the way through their lives where they will react in such ways that come across rude and cold, only to insist on needing space as well as energy?

Again, pretty rude and cold criticisms here, assuming facts that are unsupported. The word choice is not in the least bit compassionate, understanding, or empathetic.

We get that you judge the INFJs you know as "rude and cold", but neither of those is commonly associated with FJs in generally, unless they are unhealthy.

I just wonder about it sometimes. Their personality sometimes comes across to me as like living in a land of enchantment -- like a fictional world or a book they might have read.

Idealism is great, but those ideas presented here are usually associated with a very different type.

How do they get by in the real world? So many different people and personalities not just in personal time but in professional time. Get by as in how do they deal with people in everyday life?

Most get along really well, actually. They are kind and understanding and quickly read the emotional states of others, without needing to look inside themselves.

Every time I take time out to read about an infj I just sit there thinking that one minute I should attempt to reach out in one direction only to get to the bottom or the middle of the page to find out that my first idea won't work and that I should try another or that in reality they don't care about anything you have said so you pretty much mean nothing at all to them.

A lot more of scattered criticisms. Perhaps they reject your ideas not because "in reality they don't care about anything you have said" but because they just disagree. People too often mistake accommodation for agreement, so they can be shocked when they learn otherwise.

"So you pretty much mean nothing at all to them" is another huge leap without foundation.

What I always walk away with is that if youre not 100 percent perfect in their mindset of perfection, you aren't deserving if their time. In short, nothing in this world is going to make them happy.

Wow, huges leaps of irrational thinking. Again, "what I always walk away with" really is you assuming what the INFJs are thinking.

Again "if youre not 100 percent perfect in their mindset of perfection" looks like yet another assumption for which you projected your thinking on to the alleged INFJs in your life.

"In short, nothing in this world is going to make them happy." is yet another assumption and judgment critical of INFJs. There is nothing to support it.

Also, just curious, do INFJs have a sense of humor at all? Does anything truly make them laugh? Do they react carefree of anything in the world?

Wow, just wow. Such a cruel and wrong judgment.

And for those who aren't an INFJ... have you ever felt yourself trying to take everything they say or don't say (you've read about it and applied it to someone you know ) about themselves and work with it or work with them to try to help them along -- only to find out you've failed? And that your good intentions were just met with constant annoyance or igorance?

The road to hell is paved with "good intentions." Yet more assumptions, projections, and judgments.....

Basically, have they ever exhausted you to a point you just felt the energy that the INFJ values so much just drain from your body, especially your mind?

INFJs as vampires......interesting.

And if the greatest or one of the greatest things with INFJ is feeling so hard, why is it that they never seem to have the ability to feel outside if their own feelings?

The INFJs, like all FJs, are feeling mostly externally. Many struggle to know what they are feeling themselves. INFPs tend to feel very hard internally. And look inwardly to find what others are feeling. So, your criticism here looks like more assumptions and projections.

Meaning do they truly care about other people's feelings more than their own?

Pretty much all FJs do. It is what external feelers do.

So, your OP is full of judgment and assumptions. It seems you are projecting things that you dislike about yourself on to INFJs, which is normal with projection.

So, again, I sorry about your relationship with people you believe to be INFJs going south. But these posts of yours are pretty hostile and appear based out of your own issues....

 

[Virgo1987]

That's where you're wrong. You don't try, you just be. (Am I suspecting your attraction toward an INFJ? ...for "trying" so hard)

I always laugh when they're serious. Or I laugh when they are laughing at something else cute. Like what planet are you from XD

*misunderstandings are key to get along, and respect.
As soon as you try to define things, that's when fights erupt: values vs values.


Of course they "hate" it

INFJs like Se, which can be expressed in many ways.

They like indulging in things.


People, life, that's probably.. Or maybe:

Or even they like "disappearing" in the crowd, maybe wanting to be noticed slightly? idk


Whether it's wrong or right, cannot be determined. It just makes INFJs disgusted.

Okay. Trying wasn't constant it was just one of those areas where I wondered... does this INFJ ever laugh?

I get different types of humor as all the other people in my life have them, but generally I can read it. I wasn't ever sure how to read the INFJ's sense of humor and when someone asked me what made the infj laugh I totally blanked.

Maybe the INFJ hid that because it was part of their true self which I've read they lose sight of because of all the people pleasing they do in their lives.

I don't know though -- I'm not stating facts.

That's too bad that manipulation or anything that doesn't meet an INFJ's standards is something they find disgusting. It's a human flaw more or less so where does that exactly leave them?

 

[Poki]

i dont understand how IJs and wanting perfection has ever been tied together. ITJs dont like stupidity, IFJs dont like assholes. doesnt mean they want perfection...they just dont accept less then half ass.

 

[ceecee]

Also, just curious, do INFJs have a sense of humor at all? Does anything truly make them laugh? Do they react carefree of anything in the world?

I know a few INFJ's, they don't shun fun. My ENFJ uses inappropriate humor regularly. It's my favorite and it's so funny.