[INFJ] Are INFJS ever aware that perfection doesn't exist and some other things.

[PeaceBaby]

Is there another thread OP made that I did not see?

Yes. Each thread since has been of a processing nature, trying to come to understanding of what happened with their friendship and what to do about it, if anything.

 

[Norrsken]

Yes. Each thread since has been of a processing nature, trying to come to understanding of what happened with their friendship and what to do about it, if anything.

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] repped me about it and now I remember the OP, lol, let me have a look at the other threads, thank you!

 

[PeaceBaby]

How do they exist in the world when they paint themselves of being right all the time and point out a person's flaws instead of holding up a mirror and seeing that they basically are the sake way.

Most people in the world have a problem with this, but ime INFJs are the most likely type to create a paradigm of "who they are" and see everything they do as extending from that paradigm. If an INFJ believes themselves to be a "good" person, they cannot imagine anything that they do as being "bad". Everything they do originates from that lens of "good" so even giving someone harsh criticism will be seen as them attempting to "help" because they are "good" and they'll feel they were "pushed" to that. INFJ bad behaviour is generally justified through someone else's "badness".

You have two threads criticizing INFJs. The language you use assumes facts not established. Let me look at your OP.

The very title of the thread "Are INFJs ever aware that perfection doesn’t exist and some other things" is immediately critical and hostile. It is insulting and condescending. etc etc etc

Basically, like many young INFPs, the language use is not precise and contains incorrect Pi generalizations. When reading the post, assume good intention, and try to separate presention from what resonates as facts. You're objecting to the wording and how it feels, making an incorrect underlying assumption of poor intent, and can't move past that. I understand why. In threads like this though, the wheat must be separated from the chaff. It seems INFPs generally find this much easier to do, as evidenced by many, many threads here. But what's hard for us to get past is this assumption of bad intent. Until we get a good grasp on how to precisely turn feelings into words, we inadvertently offend, and instead of some allowance being made for personal growth and an inability to express with precision, we're excoriated for it on a personal level. This person has had a relationship go wrong, and is processing. Ne processes out loud in a branching fashion, looking for reasons why (possibilities). Some of it will naturally be incorrect, and with Pi in the tertiary position, will be categorized too simplistically ("are INFJs ever aware perfection doesn't exist") for example.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Most people in the world have a problem with this, but ime INFJs are the most likely type to create a paradigm of "who they are" and see everything they do as extending from that paradigm. If an INFJ believes themselves to be a "good" person, they cannot imagine anything that they do as being "bad". Everything they do originates from that lens of "good" so even giving someone harsh criticism will be seen as them attempting to "help" because they are "good" and they'll feel they were "pushed" to that. INFJ bad behaviour is generally justified through someone else's "badness".




Basically, like many young INFPs, the language use is not precise and contains incorrect Pi generalizations. When reading the post, assume good intention, and try to separate presention from what resonates as facts. You're objecting to the wording and how it feels, making an incorrect underlying assumption of poor intent, and can't move past that. I understand why. In threads like this though, the wheat must be separated from the chaff. It seems INFPs generally find this much easier to do, as evidenced by many, many threads here. But what's hard for us to get past is this assumption of bad intent. Until we get a good grasp on how to precisely turn feelings into words, we inadvertently offend, and instead of some allowance being made for personal growth and an inability to express with precision, we're excoriated for it on a personal level. This person has had a relationship go wrong, and is processing. Ne processes out loud in a branching fashion, looking for reasons why (possibilities). Some of it will naturally be incorrect, and with Pi in the tertiary position, will be categorized too simplistically ("are INFJs ever aware perfection doesn't exist") for example.

I read it with good intentions initially. Only when the poster demonstrated that she has no clue about either the impact of her very imprecise language or the assumptions and projections she is using did I go through the OP and cut it up. I hoped that doing so could help her to see a little better.

I have no desire to engage her anymore, because I do not see utility in it, just like in her last thread. I feel her strong pain about this, and tried to engage with her the previous thread. I wish she finds comfort and peace.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I read it with good intentions initially. Only when the poster demonstrated that she has no clue about either the impact of her very imprecise language or the assumptions and projections she is using did I go through the OP and cut it up. I hoped that doing so could help her to see a little better.

I have no desire to engage her anymore, because I do not see utility in it, just like in her last thread. I feel her strong pain about this, and tried to engage with her the previous thread. I wish she finds comfort and peace.

What if I chose not to engage you because you were in pain? What if I wrote you off like this?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Ouch. That's awful to have hate threads going on. I remember the last time I was here I was like "I'll never be friends with an INFJ again" because I was still very upset. Now that I'm not, I understand more of what people are saying and it makes a lot of sense. At the end of the day -- it's just personalities!

I think sometimes it's hard... I tend to live my life while referring back to experiences. Bad or good... I'm like those people who have a soundtrack to every event in their lives or every memory in their head. Seriously that is what I like.

I've always got a soundtrack playing.

I can relate to that. I tend to provide more anecdotal information in discussions than most people do. I see it as offering up a case study, or a data point for people to consider in context of their theories.

I've actually started to think that the patterns in each function are mostly connected abstractly between individuals, so that descriptions of "Fe" or "Fi" or "INFJ" or any personality are more loosely connected than people give them credit. I suspect there are fundamentally different systems defined at "Fe" or "Fi", and the abstract concepts connecting all those systems are more simple than people discuss. It's the concrete application that becomes complex. There are fundamentally different versions of each function and individual. What happens in discussions is that the more concrete applications and definitions of a function or personality type are extended beyond the point that is useful.

There have been INFJs online that communicate primarily self-righteously and there are INFJs online who constantly demean themselves on the INFJ forum. I saw some of the most brutally honest self-criticisms there that I have ever seen. Because of this I've started to wonder if the trait that manifests itself in one extreme in a type may also manifest in the opposite extreme. I'm not certain about that, but it is a current hypothesis.

To answer the question in your thread title: I personally don't feel I'm better than other people. I'm not sure I could even define what a perfect person is - unless it is simply a kind person with real human flaws. After my own personal pain I've rejected the self-identity of "good" person and just try to live each day in a way that allows me to sleep well at night. My flaws are related to social deficiencies, self-destructive tendencies, and anxious, obsessive thinking. I don't care as much about disappointing people socially, by forgetting birthdays and tangible, concrete expressions, but I do admire people who are skilled at it. I tend to be very distrustful of people, although I always assume there is a reason they are likely to cause harm. I admire the free-spirited people who think everyone is wonderful. I think that on the deepest level of their inner-child, but I still expect them to cause harm. I try not to communicate it because I feel badly the times I'm wrong. The personal flaws that bother me are the ones that affect the person I love and live with. I'm the jealous type because I expect female friends to act selfishly and intrude into my relationship and some have. I get trapped into obsessive thinking when I see harm being done and need to resolve it when it cannot be resolved, and the person I live with has to hear too much repetition of a negative concept. I feel badly for them when I do that. I also hate my self-destructive tendencies and feel shame for things I've allowed to happen, but feel zero obligation to discuss that with strangers. It's none of their business. These aren't pretty B.S types of self-criticisms of being "too kindhearted" or "I just give too much" "I just work too hard".

Maybe some people of various types do bullshit themselves, but even then I suspect they have deeper self-doubt that they are protecting themselves from. I can think of people who do that, but I don't see a reason for me to force them to "confess" to something. It's on their timetable and as long as they aren't berating or harming other people, I don't have a reason to be terribly concerned about each individual person's self-concept. That is individual, and I tend to feel people have a lot of legitimate entitlement when it comes to self-concept. A false facade will cause the person pain in their life, but that is something each person has to experience for themselves. I don't like to dig around in other people's personal space for that sort of thing. Sometimes when I meet someone who is arrogant, but not mean, I don't really want to tear it down because I know life will do that for them, and I'm glad they are starting out with some ego strength beforehand, even if it is inflated or off-base.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

What if I chose not to engage you because you were in pain? What if I wrote you off like this?

It would be up to you.

Each person only helps others for their own personal reasons.

I have so much pain in my life and already deal with more people in pain in my RL on a daily than most people deal with in a lifetime, but the well is pretty empty these days.....

I have helped many here over the last year of all types. I will continue to do so with those I can help. This poster appears to be beyond my ability to help at this time, without draining me of energy I really don't have right now.

It isn't her pain that pushes me away, but her refusal to consider her own perceptions and assumptions that prevents me from being able to help.

Her pain is the easiest part of it for me to handle. My own pain is so much deeper that this feels like a pin prick. The pain of my wife and children is far beyond the poster's and I have to feel all that regularly.

If she needs to rant, then she can rant away. But I don't need to be her sounding board. And since she can't begin to see herself clearly...... me engaging her isn't going help.

Perhaps other people here can assist her..... I wish her well and hope she can heal and arrive at understanding.

 

[Virgo1987]

It would be up to you.

Each person only helps others for their own personal reasons.

I have so much pain in my life and already deal with more people in pain in my RL on a daily than most people deal with in a lifetime, but the well is pretty empty these days.....

I have helped many here over the last year of all types. I will continue to do so with those I can help. This poster appears to be beyond my ability to help at this time, without draining me of energy I really don't have right now.

It isn't her pain that pushes me away, but her refusal to consider her own perceptions and assumptions that prevents me from being able to help.

Her pain is the easiest part of it for me to handle. My own pain is so much deeper that this feels like a pin prick. The pain of my wife and children is far beyond the poster's and I have to feel all that regularly.

If she needs to rant, then she can rant away. But I don't need to be her sounding board. And since she can't begin to see herself clearly...... me engaging her isn't going help.

Perhaps other people here can assist her..... I wish her well and hope she can heal and arrive at understanding.

I hope you realize that mentioning the pain you feel within your personal life is something INFPs are constantly told to grt over.

I apologize that you are dealing with pain in your real life and immediate family, but there's been a lot of pain in my life long before I was even at an age where could properly handle it.

You or anyone has no need or obligation to talk to me or even to correct me, but the correcting part comes easily.

Again, I don't wish for your time or help and I hope you are able to find peace in your real life. That's something I'd never wish against no matter which sign because I know first hand it ain't easy.

 

[PeaceBaby]

It was a rhetorical question. Nice to know you place such a high value on someone willing to look past your incorrect assumptions and perceptions though.

It isn't her pain that pushes me away, but her refusal to consider her own perceptions and assumptions that prevents me from being able to help.

She does not use Ni, she uses Ne. All of her perceptions are on the table and are currently being sorted. The sorting happens out loud, even if some of the "conclusions" are preposterous to your eyes (and yes, some of them are). If someone else can make allowance for your need to do this with your extroverted functions, I am wondering why you aren't extrapolating from the grace offered to you in order to have a bit of patience with the need of other extroverted processes?

Pe informs Ji, not Pi informing Je. Big, big difference here.

 

[Virgo1987]

And you actually think that applies to INFJs only? Are your serious?

No. I'm not serious.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

It was a rhetorical question. Nice to know you place such a high value on someone willing to look past your incorrect assumptions and perceptions though.

She does not use Ni, she uses Ne. All of her perceptions are on the table and are currently being sorted. The sorting happens out loud, even if some of the "conclusions" are preposterous to your eyes (and yes, some of them are). If someone else can make allowance for your need to do this with your extroverted functions, I am wondering why you aren't extrapolating from the grace offered to you in order to have a bit of patience with the need of other extroverted processes?

Pe informs Ji, not Pi informing Je. Big, big difference here.

I tried in her previous thread.....and I will continue to wish her well. I just know where I am right this minute and what I can handle.

I do not even put this on a type issue. I have worked with many types, mostly through PMs with all types of issues. Even the occassional INFP.

I continue to dislike talking of Je and Pi and Ji and Pe, though, as i see far more differences between Te and Fe (&Ti and Fi) than I do between Fe and Fi and Ti and Te. While there are superficial similarities between Je types and Ji types, there are far more differences.

Moreover, it is the function combo that really seems important. SFJs and NFJs process things and deal with life very differently, for all that both use Fe.

Likewise NTJs and NFJs also are very different in mental processing, for all that both are Je types using Ni.

I deal with my INTP son's Ne every single day, and given his psychological issues, that is often dealing with a level of madness that I have never detailed anywhere. The effort to talk him back to something close to reality is herculean to say the least, yet I do so.

The OP here can learn and grow. I put most of it on her age and lack of experience. Everyone was young and foolish once. We all misunderstood a lot of things and our thinking patterns are often not clear in our youth. I don't hold this against her in the least.

I just see a stark reality that she needs time more than anything else. We all need time and patience with ourselves and others.

So, nothing I could really express will sink in right now, but that is ok. It doesn't make her a bad person. It doesn't mean she can't grow in wisdom and knowledge. It just means I can't help right now. I am full of compassion for her struggles and empathize with her confusion, but I am not the vehicle that will heal her right now.

We all have illusions and constructs. I am not afraid of my many mistakes and errors and missteps. I just hope to grow into a little more clarity each day and maintain patience with myself and others.

 

[wu lan]

I haven't read the whole thread but as I'm an unhealthy sample of the type, hopefully you'll have some insight which hopefully match your friend.

Some of it is personal, but other INFJs I've met since then seem to be along the same wave length. There is no mercy or so it seems.

A few posts elsewhere about unhealthy infj's rang very true in my opinion.

I guess I just feel badly for them while at the same time being annoyed with them. I'm no saint either, I know about all the terrible and toxic things infps are sometimes or usually do or say by infj's and other types.

I just wonder how reality looks to them. How do they handle life. No one fits perfection it's like having an illusion... which is fine when you're a kid or a growing teenager, but in the adult world of work, play, and overall life... how do they function?

lmao I don't function in reality realm XD
Kiiiiddiiingg. It's just exhausting sometimes, because I don't really grasp sense well. Sometimes I don't know why people do things like this, like that, even when I know how well the outcome is, because I care more about the process.

Value driven, I don't even want to move a finger if I don't feel driven emotionally, but I still end up doing whatever it is. So it's my fault to not value achievement in practical sense more. Maybe without realizing it, fallen into Se-grips and putting unnecessary attention to detail but since it is not the how I function, it turns out ugly. This is the theory I usually find in the internet and quite relate to. Then, with an ugly result it just upset me more because I could just do it like everybody else and achive perfection in the significant thing better, because I don't recognize the context better. For me there's no context, it just recently that I found most people function based on established context. But I don't know which perfection you are talking about so this answer might miss the point.

If everyone is out to get them... where does that stem from and how do they function in the real world?

I've found the answer to this but I kinda forgot. It has something to do with able to see the reality as it is (mostly) based on morality itself and further predict its outcomes plus the underlying motives (in several perspective that could also end up in different outcome) behind them. NiTi rabbit hole I guess, realizing how cruel it is with the cold Ti logic, I can assure you it was mostly scary because I still prefer to function with Fe.
I find it very calming if you give some proof that the world is not that scary and is still full of beauty like some poor finally get some help, that you never want anything bad for me, or anything that is fact. Prove me wrong. I need some reality checks.

I function mostly by mirrorring people to find connection, so people would feel familiar with me, until have the urge to correct them. Not saying I end up always being right, because what is right is more about what is aligned with the context of time, place, situation, and the demographic?? in other word, sensible, to be wise. Because I want to feel familiar with them too. But maybe it is also another illusion.

How do they exist in the world when they paint themselves of being right all the time and point out a person's flaws instead of holding up a mirror and seeing that they basically are the sake way.

I applaud them for having a mindset that's locked like a vice, but I also feel like they allow more pain into their lives than needed. I feel like they live inside their heads to the point they are unable to think outside of it and therefore that smothers them in some way.

It's just no fun for an outsider who cares about an infj with this much emotional baggage going on. No fun not in the sense that oh god, would all the melodramatic behavior stop, but just no fun in the sense that the infj is suffering and falling deeper into the abyss and no matter how much you reach out (as well as providing space) you worry that infj is just gonna throw their dreams away because they can't face criticism in the real world. Or ratherx they can't face the real world head-on.

Told you, not living in reality realm

I find some theory that said because of the inferior Se, INFJ can actually see reality better more than INFP but ironically can't actively participate. INFP will be able to participate more because of Ne flexibility and Te to adapt to after that just fully retreat to their own world, meanwhile INFJ feeling like thay can see the shape of the world better have the urge to make some change in it because of the idealization of Ni and Fe which can't stand still watching it.
Honestly, I never listened to people who said that I can't change the world, I could only change myself. I think that is just stereotype though.

So I think it's a mixture. It isn't just infj, but a depressed or a unhealthy infj. I see it both ways while months ago I just saw it as stereotypically of infjs. Though like I said I've met other infj's (there's a ton of them online...) and they all say the ssme.thing. they all feel they know what's best for themselvws, other people, and the interaction they have together and it all just comes across as controlling and just created out of this world of perfection where perfection doesn't even exist.

The rebel inside me want to yell, what if all people want to achieve the perfect world full of peacefulness, but I passed it and regard it as delusional. Because I know that something could only be achieve with some sacrifice and I believe that it truly works that way.

 

[Fidelia]

Sorry for you having to deal with this, Virgo. I have been in a similar position with another type, and it's hard when you are not sure whether it is just a different way of thinking that seems incomprehensible but is function related, if it is a typical response of that type when they are unhealthy, or if it is a personal thing and has little to do with type at all. It is all rather discombobulating, especially if that person was very important to you.

Certainly, I've seen a number of threads about INFJs soon after someone has had a serious falling out with one of them. What you are describing doesn't sound typical to me, but to be fair, I don't have a huge experience base of INFJs in real life other than myself and possibly one or two others. They are a bit chameleon like and tend to shift to be whatever the situation calls for, so I find it hard to even identify them, in addition to their rarity. I think what some people are reacting to is that it seems unbelievably common for everyone to have had a bad INFJ ex or friend, to the point where the percentages for INFJ frequency in the population suggest that some of them are likely mistyped. In addition, no one likes being accused of being a certain way that is universally regarded as negative, when the person questioning doesn't know them and seems maybe to be overgeneralizing or including inaccurate information. I think it's true that INFJs do have more trouble than some separating the wheat from the chaff. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

On the other hand, it's also true that INFJs can be somewhat myopic, the more emotionally stirred up they are. They are bad at making their needs known until they are overwhelmed by them. They are good at noticing patterns outwardly or if they are slightly removed, but less good at noticing what's going on with themselves or when they are very directly involved (not just emotional patterns, but behavioural, physical, etc). This isn't withholding, as it's easy for them to know they may be slightly upset, but they have no idea how much till they're at breaking point. And then it's embarrassing to deal with having reacted in a way that horrifies or wounds other people. Also, because conflict uses up tremendous amount of their Ni processing energy, which is terribly slow compared to nearly all other functions (Fi at least is a judging function even though it's introverted), they don't engage in it early on when things are less big of a deal and they also sometimes get overloaded during conflict and just shut down, which feels terribly rejecting to others. Very little details can sway the way they see the whole entire picture when they are in that state too (for good or for bad) and they feel a little like they've lost their own moorings and it's hard to know how to assess anything. The more they are pushed to at the time, the more negative of a reaction they seem to respond with or the more resentful they are to the person trying to push them to communicate.

I think, the healthier the person, the more boundaries they will put on how they express these feelings or on the impact they have on other people. On the other hand, FJs are also notorious for trying to rationalize themselves out of feeling negatively and don't do themselves or anyone else any favours when at last they've stuffed one too many things down or talked themselves out of being upset and the whole mess comes exploding out or else makes them physically ill.

As far as practical advice, I'd suggest leaving the door open to talk but not pushing them before a little time has passed, specifically inviting them to vent (the more room you make for it, the less it will take, and they will be very reluctant to do it voluntarily unless really at breaking point, when it just comes out nastily and in a way they are deeply ashamed of after), and letting them talk till they run out of words. I know there should be onus on them too, but if you are looking strictly from a utilitarian point of view, there it is.

As far as sense of humour, I do think FJs generally give off a very earnest vibe compared to Ne users. They aren't able to think nearly as quickly and so often don't come up with stuff till the moment for it has passed. They also don't have a very physical sense of humour or light silliness about them. However, if you get to know them better, I think there is a surprising amount of playfulness there. They will be very funny at times, but all the conditions have to be right for the moment to come up and often it is the unexpectedness of hearing a certain comment come out of them that makes people laugh. It generally only happens one on one or in a very small trusted group though. As far as appreciating humour though, I think there's lots of that. They are probably pickier about context though, and when upset, will not respond well to people trying to use silliness or humour to lighten the mood.

I agree that in general, we are idealists in a big way. I think the more mature and healthy someone is, the more realistic a view they will take of the world around them and realize that imperfection is a part of life. Their quest for perfection can be a bit exhausting or annoying to a partner, depending on what that partner or friend's priorities are, but in general, I don't think it has to be a big problem. One of the biggest paradigm shifts for most NFJs is realizing that mistakes are a part of life, both for themselves and for others. It is harder to accept other's mistakes when you can't accept your own without shame or guilt etc. It takes time to understand that they will sometimes have to bend for the other person, rather than having the person meet them where they are at. Part of this tendency is not simply selfish though, but rather because they prefer a more rigid set of external circumstances because the unexpected drains huge amount of processing energy from them that then isn't available for every day functioning. So it's an unconscious self-protective measure.

Related to this is that they often won't take chances emotionally unless they feel they've had a specific invitation and they even will take on extra inconvenience emotionally from the other person because they (unconsciously) find it easier to adjust in a voluntary way than have either rejection/upset/adjustment thrust upon them unexpectedly. I believe this results in a rather stilted dynamic because they edit their image so carefully without realizing it, and are always trying to "weigh" less, without being aware of when that is actually distancing others and making the others feel controlled, like they have to hide things, or less than. So a lot of the spewed resentment has little to do with the situation itself and more to do with feeling that the same invitations they've been giving haven't been reciprocated as they should be (which isn't fair, as the other person didn't think it was a matter of keeping track and got no feedback that there was any big problem). This is true of everything from deferring about little preferences, to showing interest in what the other person has to say, to taking on more responsibilities in the relationship, etc. When the INFJ feels like this, they will suddenly become aware of all of the little incidents that weren't big enough to bring up on their own, but now form an overarching pattern and they feel very frustrated, which turns into attacking kind of energy or else an abrupt change of information, rather than adaptation through communication as it should.

Don't know if this gives you any help. I am saying "INFJs", but I realize I am making some broad generalizations that may or may not apply to every INFJ out there. Hopefully though it gives you a little insight as you process all of this.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

As far as sense of humour, I do think FJs generally give off a very earnest vibe compared to Ne users. They aren't able to think nearly as quickly and so often don't come up with stuff till the moment for it has passed. They also don't have a very physical sense of humour or light silliness about them. However, if you get to know them better, I think there is a surprising amount of playfulness there. They will be very funny at times, but all the conditions have to be right for the moment to come up and often it is the unexpectedness of hearing a certain comment come out of them that makes people laugh. It generally only happens one on one or in a very small trusted group though. As far as appreciating humour though, I think there's lots of that. They are probably pickier about context though, and when upset, will not respond well to people trying to use silliness or humour to lighten the mood.

Your entire post was really excellent, and I never addressed the sense of humor question from the OP.

I can relate to what you describe with having certain environments for humor, and I think that is exactly it for the INFJ type. We have had members express a quiet, silliness of whimsy at times. For myself (and I always go back and forth about type), in real life I'm actually absurdly silly most of the time, but my employer wouldn't know that exactly. She would just see the quiet whimsy. The only movies and shows I buy are either quirky comedies or whimsical dramas, sometimes spooky psychological thrillers. I'll watch even the dumbest movies if there is an ape involved. I tend to either be in the death-blows of despair, lost in abstract theoretical discussion, or absurdly silly. Although, I do feel like in online contexts people don't get my jokes, but that also strikes me funny. In real life they do. My mother was a kindergarten teacher and very silly herself, and an ISFP. I am more like her than most other people, but I organize my stuff better and can think more technically than she does, and she is better at understanding young children and maintaining more lightness. I own two rabbit suits and I know how to use them: one is cute and one is creepy. I'll leave it to the reader to imagine 'why'.

 

[Empyrean]

Perfection is abstract.

Since I have a weird belief/philosophical system that synthesizes monism and platonism to a certain extent (along with other contradictory concepts), perfection 'exists' for me.

In some sense of the word exist.

How it exists, I'm not really sure.

It's all Ni-visionary amorphous ideation.

It's not rationally grounded.

I can't articulate it with words in a way that will convey the phenomenology itself.

This is the best I can do. I also have a sense of humor!

 

[Forever]

Perfection is abstract.

Since I have a weird belief/philosophical system that synthesizes monism and platonism to a certain extent (along with other contradictory concepts), perfection 'exists' for me.

In some sense of the word exist.

How it exists, I'm not really sure.

It's all Ni-visionary amorphous ideation.

It's not rationally grounded.

I can't articulate it with words in a way that will convey the phenomenology itself.

This is the best I can do. I also have a sense of humor!

If I am understanding this correctly monism and Platonism are not contradictory. Can you at least explain why, and let me know how they are contradictory?

What's your humor like?

 

[Empyrean]

I was speaking in generalities.

Platonism would hold there are platonic entities, e.g forms of various things, including categories and objects. There would be many of these things.

Monism would imply there is only a singular substance, or on an even more extreme level (Parmenides' strict monism), that there is only one thing altogether. I'm not a strict monist, but I do think that everything collapses back into a singularity at some level or in some manner.

I see this singularity as paradox. In actuality, it may not be paradox, but that's as far as I'll get with my human understanding.

 

[ceecee]

I read it with good intentions initially. Only when the poster demonstrated that she has no clue about either the impact of her very imprecise language or the assumptions and projections she is using did I go through the OP and cut it up. I hoped that doing so could help her to see a little better.

I have no desire to engage her anymore, because I do not see utility in it, just like in her last thread. I feel her strong pain about this, and tried to engage with her the previous thread. I wish she finds comfort and peace.

You do get that she isn't talking about you personally, right? All that - I take on everyone elses' pain and I can't even feel my own....you do understand you bring it on yourself, just like you are standing up to take it for the single INFJ the OP is talking about? Or is it just that hard to not make things all about you? Is this thread any different than all the threads and posts you have made trying to understand other types? No. But it's an effrontery to you. It may not be to other INFJ's, they may not even care but they will when you're done making them see the light.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

You do get that she isn't talking about you personally, right? All that - I take on everyone elses' pain and I can't even feel my own....you do understand you bring it on yourself, just like you are standing up to take it for the single INFJ the OP is talking about? Or is it just that hard to not make things all about you? Is this thread any different than all the threads and posts you have made trying to understand other types? No. But it's an effrontery to you. It may not be to other INFJ's, they may not even care but they will when you're done making them see the light.

Wow, on that high horse again. Chill out a bit.

I never once said it was about me or affront to me. But go ahead, read in the shit you want. Project out your own issues.

As to me, I get to feel the pain of all those I interact with. It isn't a choice, except to attempt to clamp down all emotions. Even then, they would still impact me, but I would be less able to handle them.

Sorry if you remain unable to understand the basic ENFJ dilemma. I would have thought you would have a glimmer of understanding by now.

 

[Empyrean]

Wow, on that high horse again. Chill out a bit.

I never once said it was about me or affront to me. But go ahead, read in the shit you want. Project out your own issues.

As to me, I get to feel the pain of all those I interact with. It isn't a choice, except to attempt to clamp down all emotions. Even then, they would still impact me, but I would be less able to handle them.

Sorry if you remain unable to understand the basic ENFJ dilemma. I would have thought you would have a glimmer of understanding by now.

If you don't mind me asking, what is this ENFJ dilemma you're referring to? I'm just here to learn.