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[ENFJ] My ENFJ Boyfriend Is Surrounded By Cold Callous Family....Won't Take My INTJ Advice..

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INTJWoman

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Telling someone to cut contact with their child in order to protect their emotional balance would be received with strong repulsion from many....

Thanks for your input...

Yes, I am fully aware of it.

.... I don't know much about the 10-year-old kid but he looks normal to me based on the information I have. It's a very turbulent time and I've done some very disturbing things when I was this age.....

Honestly, his behaviour is really not 'normal'...and I am not saying that for effect. It's the reason why I even bothered to reach out in this (for me) highly unusual way.
 

INTJWoman

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How long were his parents together? Did they have a rocky relationship starting from when he was about 2-3? There is always a chance that he has serious issues but children aren't typically the best communicators... Maybe he just doesn't know how to express his emotions constructively because like [MENTION=27574]Cowardly[/MENTION] said he may have emotional baggage. Parents can be physically present but emotionally distant. Bad behavior begets attention.

The parents were never 'together', per say. They were - how should I put it? - sexual partners for a few years. He had told her that he didn't want any more children. She told him she didn't want children at all. However, at some point she removed her coil without telling him. He was so upset that he went directly and had a vasectomy....

Since then her animosity towards him began...
 

PeaceBaby

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According to Google's definition of 'emotional support', yes, I am definitely giving emotional support...

I'm a good listener (what others have said about me)
I give him all of my attention
I let him speak without interruption
I validate his feelings & offer words of encouragement...

Of course, I'm no expert at it, but I do what I can...

We do have a good relationship, him and I, and I don't want to sound like an unemotional robot. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just not in me to sit by and allow someone to be treated in such a disrespectful manner....

What does being treated in a disrespectful manner look like to you? Since you say you are a parent as well, how does that differ from how your children treat you?
 

Tilt

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The parents were never 'together', per say. They were - how should I put it? - sexual partners for a few years. He had told her that he didn't want any more children. She told him she didn't want children at all. However, at some point she removed her coil without telling him. He was so upset that he went directly and had a vasectomy....

Since then her animosity towards him began...

Depending on the personality of the child, the adult drama may be taking a toll on him. He may just as likely be internalizing the animosity that his mother showing towards his father, especially if she is his primary caretaker. The kid may benefit from therapy too. No matter how you slice it, that seems like a less than ideal family situation.
 

INTJWoman

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Depending on the personality of the child, the adult drama may be taking a toll on him. He may just as likely be internalizing the animosity that his mother showing toward his father, especially if she is his primary caretaker. The kid may benefit from therapy too. No matter how you how you slice it, that seems like a less than ideal family situation.

The child definitely needs some form of therapy. And, yes, he seems to be mirroring the attitude of the mother. When he calls his father one can hear her in the background throwing mean comments. My bf would like the child to get some professional help, but the mother will have nothing of it....
 

INTJWoman

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What does being treated in a disrespectful manner look like to you? Since you say you are a parent as well, how does that differ from how your children treat you?


Let me put it like this: adults that have met him - friends of both parents - have also stated their concern regarding his behaviour...
I'm not an idiot. I know what disrespect looks like.

This is not a game. I'm looking for solutions.
 

Fidelia

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I can imagine if a child has two fairly permissive parents, there are all kinds of disturbing behaviours that will follow because they've taken on an alpha role over their parents. Especially by 10, a kid could be pretty difficult to deal with.

Gordon Neufeld has done some excellent work on this and on the kinds of behaviours that occur when the attachment relationship is turned upside down. He also talks about how to regain the alpha role as a parent so that the child can feel secure and also start to mature emotionally.

This is a huge undertaking! Although it can be done, it's not a quick and easy fix and your bf has control over very few of the other variables in the boy's life. If it were me, I don't know if I'd have what it takes to stick with him for the rollercoaster that is sure to ensure over the next years.

For your own sake though, you need to think about what has changed since your bf was willing to be casual sex partners with a woman (over the course of years) when neither person discussed the eventuality of what they would do should a pregnancy occur. How he got to the place where he made some of the choices he has is very understandable, given his childhood circumstances. Unless there's been a major change involving therapy etc, and evidence of behavioural shifts for some time, it doesn't bode well for building a future together.

Often people feel like if they get the trappings of a good life, it will somehow make everything work. However, without adequate preparation and a solid personal foundation, it is easy to fall into a dysfunctional dynamic in a romantic relationship. You might want to think about why you are willing to accept a partnership that is built on shaky ground. It may mean that you both need time apart to prepare for time together, or it may mean that you are getting your needs fulfilled in some way by having a partner who needs you desperately. It's better to at least be consciously aware of what you are doing and why. In a sense, I think the kids are only a symptom of a much bigger issue between you and your bf.
 

Tilt

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The child definitely needs some form of therapy. And, yes, he seems to be mirroring the attitude of the mother. When he calls his father one can hear her in the background throwing mean comments. My bf would like the child to get some professional help, but the mother will have nothing of it....
Yikes. I feel bad for the family especially the child... I would highly suspect that the child feels trapped in the middle and doesn't have a good outlet...
 

ChocolateMoose123

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The child definitely needs some form of therapy. And, yes, he seems to be mirroring the attitude of the mother. When he calls his father one can hear her in the background throwing mean comments. My bf would like the child to get some professional help, but the mother will have nothing of it....

I just saw this. I don't know laws in your state, or what the custody situation is, but have your ENFJ look into this because in some circumstances permission of one parent isn't needed to go to a counselor. To be medicated? Different.
 

INTJWoman

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I can imagine if a child has two fairly permissive parents, there are all kinds of disturbing behaviours that will follow because they've taken on an alpha role over their parents. Especially by 10, a kid could be pretty difficult to deal with.

Gordon Neufeld has done some excellent work on this and on the kinds of behaviours that occur when the attachment relationship is turned upside down. He also talks about how to regain the alpha role as a parent so that the child can feel secure and also start to mature emotionally.

This is a huge undertaking! Although it can be done, it's not a quick and easy fix and your bf has control over very few of the other variables in the boy's life. If it were me, I don't know if I'd have what it takes to stick with him for the rollercoaster that is sure to ensure over the next years.

For your own sake though, you need to think about what has changed since your bf was willing to be casual sex partners with a woman (over the course of years) when neither person discussed the eventuality of what they would do should a pregnancy occur. How he got to the place where he made some of the choices he has is very understandable, given his childhood circumstances. Unless there's been a major change involving therapy etc, and evidence of behavioural shifts for some time, it doesn't bode well for building a future together.

Often people feel like if they get the trappings of a good life, it will somehow make everything work. However, without adequate preparation and a solid personal foundation, it is easy to fall into a dysfunctional dynamic in a romantic relationship. You might want to think about why you are willing to accept a partnership that is built on shaky ground. It may mean that you both need time apart to prepare for time together, or it may mean that you are getting your needs fulfilled in some way by having a partner who needs you desperately. It's better to at least be consciously aware of what you are doing and why. In a sense, I think the kids are only a symptom of a much bigger issue between you and your bf.

Now, that's an interesting point regarding the alpha role!..

He is actually a great guy, and I do not need an ego boost or anything of that kind, if that's what you are getting at. I wouldn't use my time building something that didn't have potential.

No, we don't have any issue between us. As a couple, we are doing very well. And I have never met the 27 year old son...
 
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INTJWoman

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I just saw this. I don't know laws in your state, or what the custody situation is, but have your ENFJ look into this because in some circumstances permission of one parent isn't needed to go to a counselor. To be medicated? Different.

Thank you for this...

For me, it would be a case of country law since I am residing in Scandinavia...
 

PeaceBaby

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Let me put it like this: adults that have met him - friends of both parents - have also stated their concern regarding his behaviour...
I'm not an idiot. I know what disrespect looks like.

This is not a game. I'm looking for solutions.

If you're looking for solutions, then I would hope you would prefer being asked some questions for clarity rather than expecting strangers on the internet to give you solutions based on the lean amount of information you've offered over thus far. Disrespectful behaviour looks different to different people; that's not speculation, that is a fact, especially if you spent some time here on the forum and saw such dynamics played out in real time yourself.

What this thread looks like here to me is you cherry-picking content that suits your conclusions thus far. If you truly want to help your partner, I would hope you would be open to exploring a bit before hitting the gavel and calling it a day once your confirmation bias is sufficiently satisfied.
 

INTJWoman

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If you're looking for solutions, then I would hope you would prefer being asked some questions for clarity rather than expecting strangers on the internet to give you solutions based on the lean amount of information you've offered over thus far. Disrespectful behaviour looks different to different people; that's not speculation, that is a fact, especially if you spent some time here on the forum and saw such dynamics played out in real time yourself.

What this thread looks like here to me is you cherry-picking content that suits your conclusions thus far. If you truly want to help your partner, I would hope you would be open to exploring a bit before hitting the gavel and calling it a day once your confirmation bias is sufficiently satisfied.

'...adults that have met him - friends of both parents - have also stated their concern regarding his behaviour...' We're not talking about a child forgetting to say please and thank you here. If that were the case I wouldn't be using my time here....

Look, I was under the impression that when someone comes to a forum to ask for help it's not your everyday, run-of-the-mill problem, and I assume that people would not find it necessary to ask me (words to the effect of), 'Are you sure the child isn't just having a bad day'...
 

Starry

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Yah [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] everyone knows that the kid has to be really crying out for help before you decide not to give them any.
 

PeaceBaby

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'...adults that have met him - friends of both parents - have also stated their concern regarding his behaviour...' We're not talking about a child forgetting to say please and thank you here. If that were the case I wouldn't be using my time here....

Look, I was under the impression that when someone comes to a forum to ask for help it's not your everyday, run-of-the-mill problem, and I assume that people would not find it necessary to ask me (words to the effect of), 'Are you sure the child isn't just having a bad day'...

It's "using" your time to be here but it's not "using" our time to offer assistance? I hear your pain and frustration and I'd be happy to be help if I can but your conclusions are insufficient data for me in order to provide that. I need to know what the behaviour looks like and if you're not willing to help paint a picture I'm not going to play into your confirmation bias. You can find people who'll just nod their heads and go along with your story the way it's been painted; has it helped you so far, will it help you moving forward? If your conclusions were enough your bf would have already followed your advice and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Since he hasn't, maybe the answer lies in viewpoints that you have yet to consider or find hard to hear.

So, I reiterate -- offer more data or I cannot help you.
 

Masokissed

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I have no interest in what you think of me. I've come here to get some helpful advice on what to do in this situation.
And I have received much good advice from all but two in here...

I wasn't expecting you to care. I'm just trying to point out that you say they're cold and callous when you've been cold and callous since the orignal post.

Your services are not required.

I don't work for you, bitch.

INTJWoman said:
And I have never met the 27 year old son...

This, to me, is a dead giveaway that you aren't in any authority to be deciding if your BF should abandon his family.
 

Ivy

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Thread closed, perhaps temporarily, due to the amount of hostile invective being thrown around from all directions. Posts may be removed or moved before the thread is reopened, if it is reopened.
 
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