[ENFJ] My ENFJ Boyfriend Is Surrounded By Cold Callous Family....Won't Take My INTJ Advice..

[á´…eparted]

IMO, I think you should just leave him. This is a lot of baggage that he has, and he shows no signs of changing in a short period of time. I might be ENFJ, but I'd feel just as frustrated as you, if nor more so. Honestly, I doubt he ever will change or grow a spine if he is the age he is and is still like this. It would take YEARS of hard work and he would have to want to change, and I don't think he does. If you stay with him I suspect you're just going to get more resentful over time, and I don't think he'll be able to give you what you'd want or need in the long term.

To be in a relationship with someone is to take on their baggage as well. You need to ask yourself if you're ok with taking on his. It doesn't sound like you're willing to. The best thing to do would be to go separate ways on good terms.

 

[Starry]

OP didn't give examples of "psychpathology" but rest assured 10 year olds can exhibit these behavioral tendencies. Usually they come from adoptions from other countries where neglect is rampant and there is something called "reactive attachment disorder" (to be fair, the diagnosis is controversial).

But I know when I was a G.A.L. for the state, I heard of foster parents that had to lock their doors at night for fear their foster child would become violent. Attack them with a knife, etc.

I do realize this is extreme and rare behavior. It does occur though.

Still, the OP didn't give examples, so it could just be exaggerating the average misbehaving of a child. Still, not smart to throw it around without some examples.

Well, I volunteer for the State counseling youth and young adults in the juvenile justice system and have worked for/with children in academia all my adult life and this has absolutely not been my experience. [*eta as a female I don't work with male sex offenders but I do work with violent offenders and in all this time have yet to meet true sociopath]

Either way, I don't give a shit if this is a future killer...you don't toss him away just because you can't deal. You learn to deal. I'm so done with throw-away, "I need to sleep with my door locked because I didn't do my job" parenting.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Well, I volunteer for the State counseling youth and young adults in the juvenile justice system and have worked for/with children in academia all my adult life and this has absolutely not been my experience.

Either way, I don't give a shit if this is a future killer...you don't toss him away just because you can't deal. You learn to deal.

Yes, but I worked in Florida and where there is "Florida Man" there are his children that the state deals with. I worked in the court system, delinquency cases (abuse, neglect,) where children were forcibly removed from their caretakers.

They did overlap with JJS but I chose to work with those under 13 years of age that most, hadn't gotten a record yet. Some people volunteered for older, some preferred babies, etc.

Anyway...that first part was a sad but true, tongue in cheek joke to hide the misery of the system. Moving on...

I agree with you that a child that exhibits any troubling symptoms needs help and shouldn't be vilified as they cannot help themselves. Still, to play D.A. - the OP doesn't sound well equipped to deal with those issues nor should she if she lacks the necessary patience and committment.

6 months in is too new to have this much on ones plate and it takes a special person to play another person's bad hand, so to speak.

I think she should cut and run - or - be less critical/more solution based if going forward.

 

[Starry]

Yes, but I worked in Florida and where there is "Florida Man" there are his children that the state deals with. I worked in the court system, delinquency cases (abuse, neglect,) where children were forcibly removed from their caretakers.

They did overlap with JJS but I chose to work with those under 13 years of age that most, hadn't gotten a record yet. Some people volunteered for older, some preferred babies, etc.

Anyway...that first part was a sad but true, tongue in cheek joke to hide the misery of the system. Moving on...

I agree with you that a child that exhibits any troubling symptoms needs help and shouldn't be vilified as they cannot help themselves. Still, to play D.A. - the OP doesn't sound well equipped to deal with those issues nor should she if she lacks the necessary patience and committment.

6 months in is too new to have this much on ones plate and it takes a special person to play another person's bad hand, so to speak.

I think she should cut and run - or - be less critical/more solution based if going forward.

I don't want you to think that I am disagreeing with you - I quoted you to bounce off your comments but I'm not trying to discount what you say.

This thread is a bit strange for me as all these aspects of my own life collide. I have an INTJ father and an ENFJ mother that while they often leave a lot to be desired parenting wise...a lot...would never abandon me no matter how badly I may wish for it (there's a cultural component there too perhaps idk - la famiglia).

And then I work with youth that aggress because they were abandoned. And I would head down to Vegas right now and put all my money on "this 10 year old doesn't feel loved" over "conduct disorder" or "psychopathology" why? Because I like money.

I probably shouldn't be here like I said.

 

[Avocado]

I don't want you to think that I am disagreeing with you - I quoted you to bounce off your comments but I'm not trying to discount what you say.

This thread is a bit strange for me as all these aspects of my own life collide. I have an INTJ father and an ENFJ mother that while they often leave a lot to be desired parenting wise...a lot...would never abandon me no matter how badly I may wish for it (there's a cultural component there too perhaps idk - la famiglia).

And then I work with youth that aggress because they were abandoned. And I would head down to Vegas right now and put all my money on "this 10 year old doesn't feel loved" over "conduct disorder" or "psychopathology" why? Because I like money.

I probably shouldn't be here like I said.

I may do government social work since its really hard to get fired from that, and it seems unlikley to be replaced by a robot, and I want job security. In the meantime, I'm going to school to be a middle school teacher. I'm not picky when it comes to work, but with my disabilities, I have to be realistic.

 

[Starry]

I may do government social work since its really hard to get fired from that, and it seems unlikley to be replaced by a robot, and I want job security. In the meantime, I'm going to school to be a middle school teacher. I'm not picky when it comes to work, but with my disabilities, I have to be realistic.

haha oh MQ. You know me well don't you? I needed this post.

I'm so proud of you for deciding on a profession that is not likely to be replaced by a bot and where it's real hard to get fired. Now, that's thinking on your feet.

I know you will touch the lives of so many.

 

[Avocado]

haha oh MQ. You know me well don't you? I needed this post.

I'm so proud of you for deciding on a profession that is not likely to be replaced by a bot and where it's real hard to get fired. Now, that's thinking on your feet.

I know you will touch the lives of so many.

Yes, once I can no longer worry about income so much and appeasing a boss, I can focus on actually helping some people...though I'll still be limited by bureaucracy so in order to really do a lot of good, I'll need to use money on the side to make programs to help people. I'm not super detail oriented or energetic, but every job I've ever worked, I've needed to get a new one. I was only outright fired from the first one, all the others would just trim my hours to almost nothing and be a bunch of phoneys and say "oh, more people are coming in and we need to trim your hours." If you don't like my work, tell me to my face. I hate fakeness. There is real good that needs done in the world and fakeness just gets in the way.

With the exception of failing a class from missing a final during the week of the death of my grandmother, I've gotten A's and B's and made deans list every semester since college is so easy anybody can do it. Though I don't like that my record has been marred by an F, compared to losing my grandmother, who, despite being pretty religious, has been the only person consistently sweet to me, really overshadows that. More and more, I just want to learn to live off the land so I can finally be alone with myself for a few months at a time. Knowing as little as I do, I'd die out there, but its a nice daydream. I thought I was a monster for my deeply suppressed psychopathic urges and failure to live up to my ideals, but you know what, there are much worse monsters out there. I look at a crowd of people and I see a swarm of filthy maggots. People are dumb, panicky, hateful creatures. People are nothing like a person. A person, I can stand.

 

[ceecee]

All I can really say is that my ENFJ would never allow his children to a) grow up without him and b) would have likely have brought in professional help long before it became a problem. The adult kid is an adult, he can go away but the dad has to make that decision and make it stick. The 10 year old, I'd get him away from the mom, asap. If the ENFJ is wanting an INTJ to help him become stronger, he's going to have to take proactive measures to do that. Get therapy and take it very seriously because if the ENFJ is this unhealthy, nothing will ever change. If he doesn't agree to any of these things, I wouldn't stick around. You can't help anyone who is unwilling to do the work involved with themselves and their child.

 

[PeaceBaby]

And then I work with youth that aggress because they were abandoned. And I would head down to Vegas right now and put all my money on "this 10 year old doesn't feel loved" over "conduct disorder" or "psychopathology" why? Because I like money.

Odds would be in your favor no doubt. I'd put money also on the OP not having children of her own; I find that kind of attitude on kids more prevalent in my friends who have not raised their own. That said, if the OP doesn't show back up, there may end up being nothing here to help with at all.

 

[Starry]

Odds would be in your favor no doubt. I'd put money also on the OP not having children of her own; I find that kind of attitude on kids more prevalent in my friends who have not raised their own. That said, if the OP doesn't show back up, there may end up being nothing here to help with at all.

Well, she did say she could very easily walk away from him...the ENFJ... someone I assume she has some level of concern for... so I certainly can't expect her to have the compassion to look beyond this developing child's behavior...whatever it may be beyond what was mentioned...to not use adult diagnoses to slap him up with labels but rather see what truly lies beneath.

I hope she does put on the walkin shoes to be frank.

 

[highlander]

IMO, I think you should just leave him. This is a lot of baggage that he has, and he shows no signs of changing in a short period of time. I might be ENFJ, but I'd feel just as frustrated as you, if nor more so. Honestly, I doubt he ever will change or grow a spine if he is the age he is and is still like this. It would take YEARS of hard work and he would have to want to change, and I don't think he does. If you stay with him I suspect you're just going to get more resentful over time, and I don't think he'll be able to give you what you'd want or need in the long term.

To be in a relationship with someone is to take on their baggage as well. You need to ask yourself if you're ok with taking on his. It doesn't sound like you're willing to. The best thing to do would be to go separate ways on good terms.

This seems like a really rash response on the one hand based on a couple of short posts. That being said, I kind of agree. It was my immediate reaction. It seems like there are a lot of serious underlying issues that are going to lead to problems down the line.

 

[INTJWoman]

I'm sorry...but you don't get a refund on a 10 year old boy if you just don't feel like he's human enough for yah. Your ENFJ should be doing everything in his power to help this boy right now as he is still developing...not encouraged to abandon him or whoops I mean, "kick him to the curb". And no...I don't give a shit about the circumstances. He's fucking 10 years old.

Useless reply.

 

[INTJWoman]

I'm not a parent myself but I can understand why it might be hard to kick your own offspring to the curb even when they're treating you like shit. Instead of giving him the advice to cut them out, I'd help him learn how to assert and defend his own boundaries.

Thanks. Yes, I'm doing that too.

 

[Starry]

Useless reply.

you'll find this thread real useless then babe. I'm starting to wonder who the true psychopath in this scenario is hmmm....

 

[INTJWoman]

What are you doing to be emotionally supportive here? In order to help him be a strong person, he needs the power of his emotions, not a detachment from them. What do you say to him when his emotions are on display?

According to Google's definition of 'emotional support', yes, I am definitely giving emotional support...

I'm a good listener (what others have said about me)
I give him all of my attention
I let him speak without interruption
I validate his feelings & offer words of encouragement...

Of course, I'm no expert at it, but I do what I can...

We do have a good relationship, him and I, and I don't want to sound like an unemotional robot. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just not in me to sit by and allow someone to be treated in such a disrespectful manner....

 

[INTJWoman]

you'll find this thread real useless then babe. I'm starting to wonder who the true psychopath in this scenario is hmmm....

What is useless is your reply, 'babe'...
You assume so much based on 100 words...

 

[INTJWoman]

Yeah, out of all the types you could have picked, enfjs are some of the very most loyal and dedicated to family.

While he clearly needs to set appropriate limits for how he is treated by them, his primary obligation is to the people he brought into the world. That's not a responsibility that just disappears as the kids turn 18 either. Particularly if the 10 year old's mother is as bad as you suggest she is, that kid needs his presence in his life.

The more stable and reliable your boyfriend is, the more the child can afford to lean on him and test him, in a way that is not possible with his mother if he is not assured of her love or stability. Your boyfriend also needs time to build a relationship with the kid if they dont live together full time.

Yes, he's very stable and reliable.

He's been seeing his son very regularly since he was born so they have a stable relationship in that sense.

And I do understand that he cannot just kick his kids to the curb. I'm a parent too. Actually, the older son has become a better person of late. But the younger child has serious behavioural problems. In school his teachers are at wits ends...

The problem is that either parents are able to handle this child as neither of them know how to set boundaries. The mother even nurtures the child's terrible behaviour and is in complete denial that anything is wrong with him...

 

[INTJWoman]

One other thought I just had - I've learned over time to become more wary when people have all these toxic people in their life. Usually there is a reason they are either attracted to that or that they permit it. All behaviours, even negative ones have some kind of benefit or reward. If you have experienced tumult from an early age, peace can feel either dreadfully boring or rather menacing because you never know when the other shoe will drop, so often will create situations that disrupt peace to maintain control, even if it's unconsciously done.

Alternatively, sometimes it's hard to be the bad person who sets limits so it's easier to acquire a partner who will do it. However, it stunts personal growth and allows the person in question to play both sides, continue dealing with problems unconsciously, and avoid responsibility. This makes a partnership very difficult because you can't have the perks of being a child responsibility wise, with the benefits of being an adult and have an equal partnership.

In addition, it often puts the partner in the position initially of being an idealized saviour and rescuer, and then when they can't live up to an idealized vision, becoming the villain and being discarded for a new rescuer. Often when people talk about their exes as all having been bad people, it can mean that they needed more maturity as they were choosing and more conscious awareness of what drives their decisions, or it means that they are attracted to a familiar dynamic and are trying to rewrite the ending.

I realize things are never so cut and dried and even people in crisis have hugely attractive qualities. I'm just cautioning that six months is not a long time to determine what the actual situation is first hand, so take care for yourself and reserve judgement for awhile about the kid thing as well.

Thank you, Fidelia.

 

[Starry]

What is useless is your reply, 'babe'...
You assume so much based on 100 words...

There's nothing to assume. There is a 10 year old boy (i don't care how "not-human" you say he is) and your advice...that you call sound btw...is to tell his father to "kick him to the curb". Not...help him...remove him from his current home...institutionalize him...etc. etc. (whatever his current issues are) But rather "kick him to the curb." So what? The rest of us can deal with him down the road? You disgust me.

 

[INTJWoman]

IMO, I think you should just leave him. This is a lot of baggage that he has, and he shows no signs of changing in a short period of time. I might be ENFJ, but I'd feel just as frustrated as you, if nor more so. Honestly, I doubt he ever will change or grow a spine if he is the age he is and is still like this. It would take YEARS of hard work and he would have to want to change, and I don't think he does. If you stay with him I suspect you're just going to get more resentful over time, and I don't think he'll be able to give you what you'd want or need in the long term.

To be in a relationship with someone is to take on their baggage as well. You need to ask yourself if you're ok with taking on his. It doesn't sound like you're willing to. The best thing to do would be to go separate ways on good terms.

I do hear you. That is exactly my thought too.