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  1. #1
    Senior Member IndigoViolet11's Avatar
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    Default INFJ Tertiary Temptation. Can someone look into this and tell me what you think?

    I am shocked by this, but in a good or bad way I will give my opinion later..
    Anyone and any mbti can comment

    This article is about INFJ and their tertiary function and the author seemed to want to blow on something.

    https://www.stellarmaze.com/tertiary...ation-in-infj/

  2. #2
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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    In some aspects even I can relate to this and it's arguable if I'm even an NF. Particularly the elements of wanting to be a philosopher in isolation.

    Lenore Thompson makes similar arguments in her book on type about the roles of the auxiliary and tertiary and the temptation to use the tertiary to protect oneself from the unsettling feelings that usually lead to growth as a temporary relief outlet.

    I wonder if the author understands the irony of referencing that quote from Pink Floyd's The wall. In that context the use of that phrase at the end of the second brick in the wall (part 2) is used to denote how the character of The Teacher, and those he represents, will use arbitrary colloquial phrases in order to retain control and dominance over those who won't conform.

    All contributing to Pink's building of his wall to emotion and connection with others.

    I understand where the author is coming from in the context of the piece, but I don't think it is that apt as the development can't really be forced or controlled in that direct sense.

  3. #3
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Well, it appears the author of this website is an ENTP with a hard-on for INFJs. ("Don't you worry your pretty little heads INFJs about your tertiary function, you just do your Fe thing and all shall be well.") And, guess what folks - you can become a "Starling" subscriber and read more fawning prose for only $6.00 a month!

    Judge accordingly.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #4
    Iron Maiden Fidelia's Avatar
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    Aw he says unflattering things about them in other articles but after reading several, I'd say I'd take it all with a grain of salt. However, I think it's true that our aux function's usefulness is sometimes underestimated by us.
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  5. #5
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Aw he says insulting things about them in other articles but after reading several, I'd say I'd take it all with a grain of salt. However, I think it's true that our aux function's usefulness is sometimes underestimated by us.
    Yes, he does paint a bit of a ruthless picture in some parts. As for those insulting things, what do they call that in PUA - negs I think? It gets your attention by flirting on the edge of being insulting. The overall portrait however is very favorable.

    Yes, I agree about INFJs underestimating the usefulness of Fe. There are nuggets in what he writes to be sure, much in the same way (as the old saying goes) a stopped watch is still right twice a day. For me though, the overall bias aggregates with continued reading and diminishes the usefulness of the content. You start reading hookey like this:

    "As far as judgment is concerned, the Te-Fi axis represents severity of judgment and the Fe-Ti axis represents mercy of judgment." ~source: https://www.stellarmaze.com/introverted-feeling/


    and it's pretty clear where the author's functional preferences reside. His goal isn't to be free from bias, and he admits that, but it just hurts typology in general to conflate a biased opinion with authority and have people buy into what you're peddling.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
    Likes Cellmold, IndigoViolet11, Punderstorm liked this post

  6. #6
    Iron Maiden Fidelia's Avatar
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    I agree. My takeaway was that our aux function keeps us grounded and is practical and so it shouldn't be bypassed and I can buy that much.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member IndigoViolet11's Avatar
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    @Cellmold Can you clarify something? I am not getting the part about Pink Floyd. Your post is great. Everyone here so far is so.

    Hello guys, your comments here are very useful and even insightful.

    Since things here are already crystalizing, I think I will put my opinion here.
    While the cognitive functions and the whole mbti are so much of a mess when I searched for them. But I would rather say they are opinions extended from a prime source that every site almost, either loosely or tightly, follow a relatively static foundation. Such as, that we agree ever vaguely about the definition of intuition, sensing, thinking, feeling, extravert, introvert, etc etc.

    No. That guy just said to us, let me define it and blow the rest away. He threw away definitions, tweeked them, and put his own predefinded notion into his writing. Fine if he is Einstein who tried to overthrow Newton, which amazingly still has its use till now, if he did a better job than we do, I will care less. But him not. He expected people to agree with him according to the whole tone on how he has written his articles. By that, not only the article I initially linked, but the rest of them. His tone also mean that he does not accept critisism very well, and perhaps it is easy to run an arguement with him.

    And the talking down to a certain aspect of one's personality, I entirely agree.

    And his attitude upon personality and its use. I would definitely disrecommend the attitude he took. It was never like that I intentionally learn any functions first, and I disagree about the restriction he placed upon whatever "fits", let alone if there ever is a chance we miscategorize ourselves.
    Last edited by IndigoViolet11; 06-28-2016 at 05:30 AM.

  8. #8
    self murderer
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    This could explain my strange relationship with the cold and hard sciences and how much I wanted to be able to study and get into STEM related fields. I've wanted to become a technical writer, anesthetist, dental hygienist, radiologist, different types of being a doctor or a nurse, scientist, and so on. I know my Ti would help me but over using it would hurt me after a while. The author is clear on that but some of the things he said seemed juvenile and offensive (ie. 'Fe is superficial') and thus, I am having trouble digesting everything he wrote once I've reached the bottom of the page.

    For what is worth, an INFJ can do what ever they please so long as they love what they do. This is for the INFJ people out there who are in technical and scientific fields, and for the INFJ people out there who are doing their creative pursuits.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member IndigoViolet11's Avatar
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    Phew. Finally got some time...

    Quote Originally Posted by theforsaken View Post
    This could explain my strange relationship with the cold and hard sciences and how much I wanted to be able to study and get into STEM related fields. I've wanted to become a technical writer, anesthetist, dental hygienist, radiologist, different types of being a doctor or a nurse, scientist, and so on. I know my Ti would help me but over using it would hurt me after a while. The author is clear on that but some of the things he said seemed juvenile and offensive (ie. 'Fe is superficial') and thus, I am having trouble digesting everything he wrote once I've reached the bottom of the page.

    For what is worth, an INFJ can do what ever they please so long as they love what they do. This is for the INFJ people out there who are in technical and scientific fields, and for the INFJ people out there who are doing their creative pursuits.
    There are times when creativity is limited by a certain aspect that we don't have, so as a result, I can relate to myself wanting to increase the number of tools I have in order to create whatever I wanted. Technical, science, whatever, or to deeply express myself by being on the technical edge of things, or even pour myself to it. So for that, the author pointed it out, and that is good. But to limit oneself on a certain function by saying that "hey listen to me and give that idea up forget about it" does not help at all in the creative aspect but to limit it instead, by crippling the tools that one needs in order for it to suceed. So you at the end, turn back and hurt the dominant and the axiliary instead - you do not have anything to assist your primary process.

    The rest of you got good replies. Thank you very much and I am appreciated. I was all along thinking about the article and I don't understand that much why I couldn't "take" the way the author said about the personality and cognitive functions etc. All I knew is, it was an insult of my intelligent, and while some I can relate, he's speaking bullshit with no room to accept critisism. And I wondered why I felt that way, but couldnt quite catch whats going on in my head. But then you guys said what is there to be said. The more I read the rest of his stuff, I was like, heck come on, now I can go ignore that guy

    I‘ll reply the rest in detail soon
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  10. #10
    I'm too sad for pants. Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    It's kind of funny, the thing Cellmold mentioned- about the irony of his reference to Pink Floyd- struck me as well.

    Overall I think there's a lot of truth in it, but it's like he's getting the carrot and the horse and cart conflated. This is a gross analogy, but God help me it's the only one that's coming to mind: it's like saying people need to eat so that they can poo. People DO need to eat, and they DO poo as a direct consequence- but they don't eat in order to poo.* While there's something true about the general outline he presents, there's something very fundamental and important missing in his description.

    Also, as was aptly opined in some other thread recently- the problem with using 'cognitive functions' so specifically is that there are probably about as many definitions of any given cognitive function as there are people trying to put forth a specific definition of that cognitive function. There's a ballpark definition (somewhere) of 'Fe' that most people could probably agree on- but ultimately it's still very abstract and when it's used in a context like this, with a very specific formula of how someone is supposed to "strengthen their Fe", then it starts to fall apart. I suspect most people leave that site's explanation of what's "supposed" to happen in INFJs with a slightly individualized understanding of what he means**, because most people read his theory with their own conception of "Fe".


    *I mean, I think it's safe to say this is true for most people.

    **(eta: I realize this happens all the time with most communication anyway, something is always lost in translation- but my point is that it happens to such a farcical degree when people discuss cognitive functions in a specific context that it practically nullifies any purpose in the communicating.)
    Last edited by Z Buck McFate; 06-29-2016 at 07:40 AM.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    INFJ 5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari -or- disagree with my type?
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