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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] INFJ Tertiary Temptation. Can someone look into this and tell me what you think?

Cellmold

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In some aspects even I can relate to this and it's arguable if I'm even an NF. Particularly the elements of wanting to be a philosopher in isolation.

Lenore Thompson makes similar arguments in her book on type about the roles of the auxiliary and tertiary and the temptation to use the tertiary to protect oneself from the unsettling feelings that usually lead to growth as a temporary relief outlet.

I wonder if the author understands the irony of referencing that quote from Pink Floyd's The wall. In that context the use of that phrase at the end of the second brick in the wall (part 2) is used to denote how the character of The Teacher, and those he represents, will use arbitrary colloquial phrases in order to retain control and dominance over those who won't conform.

All contributing to Pink's building of his wall to emotion and connection with others.

I understand where the author is coming from in the context of the piece, but I don't think it is that apt as the development can't really be forced or controlled in that direct sense.
 

PeaceBaby

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Well, it appears the author of this website is an ENTP with a hard-on for INFJs. ("Don't you worry your pretty little heads INFJs about your tertiary function, you just do your Fe thing and all shall be well.") And, guess what folks - you can become a "Starling" subscriber and read more fawning prose for only $6.00 a month!

Judge accordingly.
 

Fidelia

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Aw he says unflattering things about them in other articles but after reading several, I'd say I'd take it all with a grain of salt. However, I think it's true that our aux function's usefulness is sometimes underestimated by us.
 

PeaceBaby

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Aw he says insulting things about them in other articles but after reading several, I'd say I'd take it all with a grain of salt. However, I think it's true that our aux function's usefulness is sometimes underestimated by us.

Yes, he does paint a bit of a ruthless picture in some parts. As for those insulting things, what do they call that in PUA - negs I think? It gets your attention by flirting on the edge of being insulting. The overall portrait however is very favorable.

Yes, I agree about INFJs underestimating the usefulness of Fe. There are nuggets in what he writes to be sure, much in the same way (as the old saying goes) a stopped watch is still right twice a day. For me though, the overall bias aggregates with continued reading and diminishes the usefulness of the content. You start reading hookey like this:

"As far as judgment is concerned, the Te-Fi axis represents severity of judgment and the Fe-Ti axis represents mercy of judgment." ~source: https://www.stellarmaze.com/introverted-feeling/


and it's pretty clear where the author's functional preferences reside. His goal isn't to be free from bias, and he admits that, but it just hurts typology in general to conflate a biased opinion with authority and have people buy into what you're peddling.
 

Fidelia

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I agree. My takeaway was that our aux function keeps us grounded and is practical and so it shouldn't be bypassed and I can buy that much.
 

IndigoViolet11

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[MENTION=15392]Cellmold[/MENTION] Can you clarify something? I am not getting the part about Pink Floyd. Your post is great. Everyone here so far is so.

Hello guys, your comments here are very useful and even insightful.

Since things here are already crystalizing, I think I will put my opinion here.
While the cognitive functions and the whole mbti are so much of a mess when I searched for them. But I would rather say they are opinions extended from a prime source that every site almost, either loosely or tightly, follow a relatively static foundation. Such as, that we agree ever vaguely about the definition of intuition, sensing, thinking, feeling, extravert, introvert, etc etc.

No. That guy just said to us, let me define it and blow the rest away. He threw away definitions, tweeked them, and put his own predefinded notion into his writing. Fine if he is Einstein who tried to overthrow Newton, which amazingly still has its use till now, if he did a better job than we do, I will care less. But him not. He expected people to agree with him according to the whole tone on how he has written his articles. By that, not only the article I initially linked, but the rest of them. His tone also mean that he does not accept critisism very well, and perhaps it is easy to run an arguement with him.

And the talking down to a certain aspect of one's personality, I entirely agree.

And his attitude upon personality and its use. I would definitely disrecommend the attitude he took. It was never like that I intentionally learn any functions first, and I disagree about the restriction he placed upon whatever "fits", let alone if there ever is a chance we miscategorize ourselves.
 
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Norrsken

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This could explain my strange relationship with the cold and hard sciences and how much I wanted to be able to study and get into STEM related fields. I've wanted to become a technical writer, anesthetist, dental hygienist, radiologist, different types of being a doctor or a nurse, scientist, and so on. I know my Ti would help me but over using it would hurt me after a while. The author is clear on that but some of the things he said seemed juvenile and offensive (ie. 'Fe is superficial') and thus, I am having trouble digesting everything he wrote once I've reached the bottom of the page.

For what is worth, an INFJ can do what ever they please so long as they love what they do. This is for the INFJ people out there who are in technical and scientific fields, and for the INFJ people out there who are doing their creative pursuits.
 

IndigoViolet11

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Phew. Finally got some time...

This could explain my strange relationship with the cold and hard sciences and how much I wanted to be able to study and get into STEM related fields. I've wanted to become a technical writer, anesthetist, dental hygienist, radiologist, different types of being a doctor or a nurse, scientist, and so on. I know my Ti would help me but over using it would hurt me after a while. The author is clear on that but some of the things he said seemed juvenile and offensive (ie. 'Fe is superficial') and thus, I am having trouble digesting everything he wrote once I've reached the bottom of the page.

For what is worth, an INFJ can do what ever they please so long as they love what they do. This is for the INFJ people out there who are in technical and scientific fields, and for the INFJ people out there who are doing their creative pursuits.

There are times when creativity is limited by a certain aspect that we don't have, so as a result, I can relate to myself wanting to increase the number of tools I have in order to create whatever I wanted. Technical, science, whatever, or to deeply express myself by being on the technical edge of things, or even pour myself to it. So for that, the author pointed it out, and that is good. But to limit oneself on a certain function by saying that "hey listen to me and give that idea up forget about it" does not help at all in the creative aspect but to limit it instead, by crippling the tools that one needs in order for it to suceed. So you at the end, turn back and hurt the dominant and the axiliary instead - you do not have anything to assist your primary process.

The rest of you got good replies. Thank you very much and I am appreciated. I was all along thinking about the article and I don't understand that much why I couldn't "take" the way the author said about the personality and cognitive functions etc. All I knew is, it was an insult of my intelligent, and while some I can relate, he's speaking bullshit with no room to accept critisism. And I wondered why I felt that way, but couldnt quite catch whats going on in my head. But then you guys said what is there to be said. The more I read the rest of his stuff, I was like, heck come on, now I can go ignore that guy :D

I‘ll reply the rest in detail soon
 

Z Buck McFate

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It's kind of funny, the thing Cellmold mentioned- about the irony of his reference to Pink Floyd- struck me as well.

Overall I think there's a lot of truth in it, but it's like he's getting the carrot and the horse and cart conflated. This is a gross analogy, but God help me it's the only one that's coming to mind: it's like saying people need to eat so that they can poo. People DO need to eat, and they DO poo as a direct consequence- but they don't eat in order to poo.* While there's something true about the general outline he presents, there's something very fundamental and important missing in his description.

Also, as was aptly opined in some other thread recently- the problem with using 'cognitive functions' so specifically is that there are probably about as many definitions of any given cognitive function as there are people trying to put forth a specific definition of that cognitive function. There's a ballpark definition (somewhere) of 'Fe' that most people could probably agree on- but ultimately it's still very abstract and when it's used in a context like this, with a very specific formula of how someone is supposed to "strengthen their Fe", then it starts to fall apart. I suspect most people leave that site's explanation of what's "supposed" to happen in INFJs with a slightly individualized understanding of what he means**, because most people read his theory with their own conception of "Fe".


*I mean, I think it's safe to say this is true for most people.

**(eta: I realize this happens all the time with most communication anyway, something is always lost in translation- but my point is that it happens to such a farcical degree when people discuss cognitive functions in a specific context that it practically nullifies any purpose in the communicating.)
 
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IndigoViolet11

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In some aspects even I can relate to this and it's arguable if I'm even an NF. Particularly the elements of wanting to be a philosopher in isolation.

Lenore Thompson makes similar arguments in her book on type about the roles of the auxiliary and tertiary and the temptation to use the tertiary to protect oneself from the unsettling feelings that usually lead to growth as a temporary relief outlet.

I wonder if the author understands the irony of referencing that quote from Pink Floyd's The wall. In that context the use of that phrase at the end of the second brick in the wall (part 2) is used to denote how the character of The Teacher, and those he represents, will use arbitrary colloquial phrases in order to retain control and dominance over those who won't conform.

All contributing to Pink's building of his wall to emotion and connection with others.

I understand where the author is coming from in the context of the piece, but I don't think it is that apt as the development can't really be forced or controlled in that direct sense.

Here's what I found, and I took a look at the lyrics on The Wall part 2.

I like your post although I do not understand fully about it. I do not have Lenore's book but I took a look at her stuff. While her stuff got occasional points, her wording is both ambiguous and emotional, giving the reader a preconcieved notion of how her words are to be accepted. Give an example, stating something as bad or good before a biased explanation. And this, I have seen so much of it and it is no difference from some religious leaders who put forward their persuasive speech and expect that their followers will listen to them.

There's way way too much of those stuff in this world, and I saw a lot of those throghout my life to notice them, because they did the interpretation for you, by putting in emotional yet ambiguous words of how you should view on something, leaving the reader no choice but either to accept or deny it, as well as leaving little to no room for any constructive comment.

For the quote from Pink Floyd's lyric, I wonder how much the author understand that lyric, or rather put forward the concept of the New Age guru Masters (because her blog has Astrology in it) and student relationship, to have the guru to shut their students up, such as being in those types of New agey spiritual groups... but that it seems it has already been mentioned, except that not everyone here were New Agers. Anyways, if looking at that quote alone, that is the way that gurus speak.

Neither do I think the author's writing is apt enough to be followed. Do whatever naturally occurs is something that is very good.

----------
" We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!" "

Well, it appears the author of this website is an ENTP with a hard-on for INFJs. ("Don't you worry your pretty little heads INFJs about your tertiary function, you just do your Fe thing and all shall be well.") And, guess what folks - you can become a "Starling" subscriber and read more fawning prose for only $6.00 a month!

Judge accordingly.

I got plenty of those, absolutely free of charge o_O
 

IndigoViolet11

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Aw he says unflattering things about them in other articles but after reading several, I'd say I'd take it all with a grain of salt. However, I think it's true that our aux function's usefulness is sometimes underestimated by us.

Yes, he does paint a bit of a ruthless picture in some parts. As for those insulting things, what do they call that in PUA - negs I think? It gets your attention by flirting on the edge of being insulting. The overall portrait however is very favorable.

Yes, I agree about INFJs underestimating the usefulness of Fe. There are nuggets in what he writes to be sure, much in the same way (as the old saying goes) a stopped watch is still right twice a day. For me though, the overall bias aggregates with continued reading and diminishes the usefulness of the content. You start reading hookey like this:

"As far as judgment is concerned, the Te-Fi axis represents severity of judgment and the Fe-Ti axis represents mercy of judgment." ~source: Introverted Feeling | Stellar Maze


and it's pretty clear where the author's functional preferences reside. His goal isn't to be free from bias, and he admits that, but it just hurts typology in general to conflate a biased opinion with authority and have people buy into what you're peddling.

I agree. My takeaway was that our aux function keeps us grounded and is practical and so it shouldn't be bypassed and I can buy that much.

Something appears to be silly seem to have people buying that concept... :( Maybe the contentless me can only say that. But I do agree that the axiliary is something that is important to be used and noted.
 

Cellmold

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Here's what I found, and I took a look at the lyrics on The Wall part 2.

I like your post although I do not understand fully about it. I do not have Lenore's book but I took a look at her stuff. While her stuff got occasional points, her wording is both ambiguous and emotional, giving the reader a preconcieved notion of how her words are to be accepted. Give an example, stating something as bad or good before a biased explanation. And this, I have seen so much of it and it is no difference from some religious leaders who put forward their persuasive speech and expect that their followers will listen to them.

There's way way too much of those stuff in this world, and I saw a lot of those throghout my life to notice them, because they did the interpretation for you, by putting in emotional yet ambiguous words of how you should view on something, leaving the reader no choice but either to accept or deny it, as well as leaving little to no room for any constructive comment.

For the quote from Pink Floyd's lyric, I wonder how much the author understand that lyric, or rather put forward the concept of the New Age guru Masters (because her blog has Astrology in it) and student relationship, to have the guru to shut their students up, such as being in those types of New agey spiritual groups... but that it seems it has already been mentioned, except that not everyone here were New Agers. Anyways, if looking at that quote alone, that is the way that gurus speak.

Neither do I think the author's writing is apt enough to be followed. Do whatever naturally occurs is something that is very good.

----------
" We don't need no education
We dont need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!" "

I meant to reply before, but got caught up in some stuffs.

Yes, there are a priori assumptions in Lenore's work as there tend to be in many works, particularly in typology where the main body of evidence is heuristic and assumptive, relying as it does upon an accurate assessment of self-knowledge, ironically a lot of people get into typology to better understand themselves. This is why I said she argues.

In her book she is attempting to bring these a priori demonstrations in line to a relatable example, so often she will use a person (or characters from pop culture) as an example then interpret the behaviour and thoughts (that the person has told her) in order to explain her particular take on MBTI. For example she talks of an INTJ who became overwhelmed with stresses and her inferior Se becomes too influential. One element this brings into play is that she becomes very aggressive physically when travelling to work, jabbing and elbowing to get onto the train. Other passengers do it too, but Lenore's argument is that they do it as part of a natural ebb and flow of a crowd, not with actual aggression. This results (amongst other elements and behaviours) in the INTJ becoming isolated from her dominant approach as well as damaging the relations she actually values and being seen as insane and violent by other passengers. It's debatable on whether Lenore is right about this, as an example it could be argued that the passenger's opinions are largely an assumptive appeal that their opinions are right, but that's why it's interesting to read and question.

As to the guru/new age angle; this is a good point. In that sense then I suppose it is a good representation of that kind of 'shutting down' of the ignorant student from the point of view of the teacher. Although I thought in the article, that the author was referencing the quote to hit home that we must get through the main body 'the meat' of the dominant and auxiliary functions, in order to feast on the tertiary 'pudding' that is more like a hobby or relief function.

However as a brief overview of Pink Floyd's The Wall it is primarily a story, more emphasised by the fact that each song leads into the start of the next one without break (if listened to as a whole). And this story is about the character of Pink and we follow his life as events in it ( an absent father killed in a war. A smothering and overbearing mother. A controlling and bullying teacher etc...) slowly build a wall around his emotions and sincere thoughts. Eventually after much turmoil he puts himself on trial and subjects himself to the archetypal representations of some of those figures in his life and judges himself guilty of "having feelings of an almost human nature" and the sentence is to "TEAR DOWN THE WALL".

Then the final song leads back into the starting song "In the flesh" because the cycle goes on and on, new walls, new bricks, new judges. Always needing to be torn down.

That's not really an adequate analysis, but I don't want to tl:dr the thread.

It was really just a minor criticism that the Schoolmaster is there as a "square pegs in square holes" representation of Pink's experience with education and perhaps can also be interpreted as our own experiences. That we are all just being pushed through a grinder for the ideal standard result and any deviation from such is an error.

Given this, I don't think the colloquial phrase about meat before pudding (popular in the UK and particularly England; my mum used it on me as a child) is a good representation for the point being made.
 

Forever

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I will go with the belief that all functions need to work together for ultimate growth in life.

 

IndigoViolet11

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It's kind of funny, the thing Cellmold mentioned- about the irony of his reference to Pink Floyd- struck me as well.

Overall I think there's a lot of truth in it, but it's like he's getting the carrot and the horse and cart conflated. This is a gross analogy, but God help me it's the only one that's coming to mind: it's like saying people need to eat so that they can poo. People DO need to eat, and they DO poo as a direct consequence- but they don't eat in order to poo.* While there's something true about the general outline he presents, there's something very fundamental and important missing in his description.

Also, as was aptly opined in some other thread recently- the problem with using 'cognitive functions' so specifically is that there are probably about as many definitions of any given cognitive function as there are people trying to put forth a specific definition of that cognitive function. There's a ballpark definition (somewhere) of 'Fe' that most people could probably agree on- but ultimately it's still very abstract and when it's used in a context like this, with a very specific formula of how someone is supposed to "strengthen their Fe", then it starts to fall apart. I suspect most people leave that site's explanation of what's "supposed" to happen in INFJs with a slightly individualized understanding of what he means**, because most people read his theory with their own conception of "Fe".


*I mean, I think it's safe to say this is true for most people.

**(eta: I realize this happens all the time with most communication anyway, something is always lost in translation- but my point is that it happens to such a farcical degree when people discuss cognitive functions in a specific context that it practically nullifies any purpose in the communicating.)

Hm... that was actually why the author's stuff does not "get it", but imo at the same time, it seems that how people will use their Fe to interpret the article is almost fixed. Or maybe the author missed something after going through other articles using her own translation instead.

I hope I get the meaning of your post right, tho.

I will go with the belief that all functions need to work together for ultimate growth in life.


Phew....

 

Z Buck McFate

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it seems that how people will use their Fe to interpret the article is almost fixed.

Would you try to explain what you mean by "use their Fe" in this statement, without using any mbti terms at all in the description? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

***

Part of the point I was trying to make in the previous post is that use of mbti terms often convolutes discussion when used in a very specific context. That's why I'm asking you to expound without using mbti terms. I could start a thread asking what it means to "use Fe" or "strengthen Fe" (there are already several existing, but I don't feel like searching for them) and while many people might show up to pontificate their own understanding (ad nauseum...), there's never any consensus when discussing Fe on such a specific level. IMO, that's a big part of why I don't find the post linked in the op particularly helpful: whether or not I think it's effectively healthy for me to "use Fe" or "strengthen Fe" depends entirely on which one of the four million conceptions of "Fe" I'm being advised to 'use' or 'strengthen'.

Ultimately I think it suffices to say simply that it's important an INFJ have solid relationships to others and to themselves: the ability to trust others is absolutely essential for a fulfilling life, as is the ability to trust ourselves (knowing when not to trust others). There are certain perceptual 'rabbit holes' that seem to be somewhat universal to INFJs in this regard- he *kinda* presents a crude outline of them. But I think there's something backwards about the assumption that choosing a profession oriented towards people is the key to achieving a 'rabbit hole' free existence? Something important is missing in there.
 

IndigoViolet11

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Would you try to explain what you mean by "use their Fe" in this statement, without using any mbti terms at all in the description? I'm not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

***

Part of the point I was trying to make in the previous post is that use of mbti terms often convolutes discussion when used in a very specific context. That's why I'm asking you to expound without using mbti terms. I could start a thread asking what it means to "use Fe" or "strengthen Fe" (there are already several existing, but I don't feel like searching for them) and while many people might show up to pontificate their own understanding (ad nauseum...), there's never any consensus when discussing Fe on such a specific level. IMO, that's a big part of why I don't find the post linked in the op particularly helpful: whether or not I think it's effectively healthy for me to "use Fe" or "strengthen Fe" depends entirely on which one of the four million conceptions of "Fe" I'm being advised to 'use' or 'strengthen'.

Ultimately I think it suffices to say simply that it's important an INFJ have solid relationships to others and to themselves: the ability to trust others is absolutely essential for a fulfilling life, as is the ability to trust ourselves (knowing when not to trust others). There are certain perceptual 'rabbit holes' that seem to be somewhat universal to INFJs in this regard- he *kinda* presents a crude outline of them. But I think there's something backwards about the assumption that choosing a profession oriented towards people is the key to achieving a 'rabbit hole' free existence? Something important is missing in there.

In general there is a mode we are familiar of, which we will always go through when we try to absorb the knowledge. We read something, making sense of it or get a feel of it, and then we store them in our brain. How to store it differs from personality to personality. However, if we didn't do the part "making sense" properly, we introduce bias. Therefore if we interpret an article that has its purpose to sway people instead of introducing something to give space of thought, then there will be either only one way to interpret it, or very little space for anything else that comes to the mind, because the author got complete control what are you going to absorb, as well as how you are going to absorb whatever he presented to you.

The rest of the post I agree entirely. There are millions of material explaining the cognitive functions, mbti, and various stuff. Basically it is a mess, but which ones would make better sense than the other is something that is quite .... obvious to a lot of people, even though obvious is not the best word to describe, but it is relatively easy to see or identify. So when something is far far off, we have the ability to notice it, and either choose to memorize, thought about it, research it, or to ignore it. This one would be entirely up to us.

In the case of the blog author, she fell into the category that she got something that is well well off the tangent. With sufficient experience and resource searching, despite the inconsistency over various sites, we will still spot the difference.

In addition to that, what my intuition (as in something that is intuitive and became a rule, ie pattern recognize) and experience as a back up would tell me, is the author gave terrible advice that represses instead of development.
 

highlander

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I like articles such as this that try and suggest how you can grow in the use of your functions. As I'm not an INFJ, I can't say for certainty if what he recommends makes sense but as an INTJ, a lot of it fells like it does. The part abound finding a method of expression is exactly right for me. I have all these jumbled thoughts in my head and can do special things if I get them down on paper because it distills them and forces them to coalesce.
 

Z Buck McFate

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In general there is a mode we are familiar of, which we will always go through when we try to absorb the knowledge. We read something, making sense of it or get a feel of it, and then we store them in our brain. How to store it differs from personality to personality. However, if we didn't do the part "making sense" properly, we introduce bias. Therefore if we interpret an article that has its purpose to sway people instead of introducing something to give space of thought, then there will be either only one way to interpret it, or very little space for anything else that comes to the mind, because the author got complete control what are you going to absorb, as well as how you are going to absorb whatever he presented to you.

[...]

In the case of the blog author, she fell into the category that she got something that is well well off the tangent. With sufficient experience and resource searching, despite the inconsistency over various sites, we will still spot the difference.

Ah, thanks, makes sense. Now I think I get what you mean by "how people will use their Fe to interpret the article is almost fixed".

Personally, when I post some theory here about type, I do so in hopes to get feedback about whether or not other people agree. It's sometimes difficult to tell whether that's what someone is doing- bouncing their theories off others to test it out- or if they actually feel entitled to dictate shared reality, as if they can make a thing true through sheer willpower (it's not done consciously, but the imbalance is clear to other people). The latter is indeed very grating to deal with, and I'll concede that I do catch a whiff of it in this guy's posts. I've also learned that sometimes other 'types' get overzealous in a way I don't understand, and it might be a case of the guy just not knowing he's coming on too strong. It's hard to say without extended exposure to a person (to see if they're just worked up in the moment and aren't paying attention to their tone, or if they consistently expect others to ingest their ideas whole). I believe I understand what you're saying though, and I agree.


In addition to that, what my intuition (as in something that is intuitive and became a rule, ie pattern recognize) and experience as a back up would tell me, is the author gave terrible advice that represses instead of development.

I agree with this too.
 

IndigoViolet11

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I meant to reply before, but got caught up in some stuffs.

Yes, there are a priori assumptions in Lenore's work as there tend to be in many works, particularly in typology where the main body of evidence is heuristic and assumptive, relying as it does upon an accurate assessment of self-knowledge, ironically a lot of people get into typology to better understand themselves. This is why I said she argues.

In her book she is attempting to bring these a priori demonstrations in line to a relatable example, so often she will use a person (or characters from pop culture) as an example then interpret the behaviour and thoughts (that the person has told her) in order to explain her particular take on MBTI. For example she talks of an INTJ who became overwhelmed with stresses and her inferior Se becomes too influential. One element this brings into play is that she becomes very aggressive physically when travelling to work, jabbing and elbowing to get onto the train. Other passengers do it too, but Lenore's argument is that they do it as part of a natural ebb and flow of a crowd, not with actual aggression. This results (amongst other elements and behaviours) in the INTJ becoming isolated from her dominant approach as well as damaging the relations she actually values and being seen as insane and violent by other passengers. It's debatable on whether Lenore is right about this, as an example it could be argued that the passenger's opinions are largely an assumptive appeal that their opinions are right, but that's why it's interesting to read and question.

As to the guru/new age angle; this is a good point. In that sense then I suppose it is a good representation of that kind of 'shutting down' of the ignorant student from the point of view of the teacher. Although I thought in the article, that the author was referencing the quote to hit home that we must get through the main body 'the meat' of the dominant and auxiliary functions, in order to feast on the tertiary 'pudding' that is more like a hobby or relief function.

However as a brief overview of Pink Floyd's The Wall it is primarily a story, more emphasised by the fact that each song leads into the start of the next one without break (if listened to as a whole). And this story is about the character of Pink and we follow his life as events in it ( an absent father killed in a war. A smothering and overbearing mother. A controlling and bullying teacher etc...) slowly build a wall around his emotions and sincere thoughts. Eventually after much turmoil he puts himself on trial and subjects himself to the archetypal representations of some of those figures in his life and judges himself guilty of "having feelings of an almost human nature" and the sentence is to "TEAR DOWN THE WALL".

Then the final song leads back into the starting song "In the flesh" because the cycle goes on and on, new walls, new bricks, new judges. Always needing to be torn down.

That's not really an adequate analysis, but I don't want to tl:dr the thread.

It was really just a minor criticism that the Schoolmaster is there as a "square pegs in square holes" representation of Pink's experience with education and perhaps can also be interpreted as our own experiences. That we are all just being pushed through a grinder for the ideal standard result and any deviation from such is an error.

Given this, I don't think the colloquial phrase about meat before pudding (popular in the UK and particularly England; my mum used it on me as a child) is a good representation for the point being made.

I would like to say that I love your post, but I don't know how to reply back. Everything in this post got very good points, and things that I do not know nor recognize myself, that I have read many times just to digest it. It was only that my mind went wandering yesterday that I got some idea on how I would take the post as the way it is to be so.

On how the INTJ 's inferior came out unhealthy, I agree the basic interpretation of it.
 
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