[INFP] INFPs, help! One of you is ruining ENTP´s non-existing feelings!

[Roadkill]

Hi guys, this post will be motherfucking long, really pathetic and in bad english, but I hope you´ll try to help me in my desperate problem... somehow Ok, here goes:

Years ago I was dating this INFP guy – he was cute and smart and in the begining it was really intensive. We were attracted each other in a lot of ways, personally, physically, intellectually... and we had a lot of things and thoughts in common (and you know... the thrill of the different point of view, the intersections after that, his “black and white” world and “that could be gray in this particular light” mine). Everything great, perfect teenage romance (even though we were much older). But than things went bad – not because I said something rude or freaked out about his irrational conclusions. We both handle this quite well. The problem was in one of the INFP´s dark sides. In the course of our sexual attraction was shown that we both are kind of kinky. Ok, let´s be honest, I´m pervert, he´s pervert. True pervert - none of the activities you usually do or not do according to your partner. Sick things “a little bit” But I knew it about myself a long time before I met this guy and he had it just the same. We did these things with our former partners and you know... It does not come as a big deal to me (ok, I´m a pervert, great - I´ll live with it and in that case, I´ll enjoy it... omg why not?).

I found it great that we had another thing in common, but he didn´t. He started to drown in his bizarre system of values and moral hangovers. I tried to explain him It´s nothing immoral – we are both adult and we don´t torture kitten or something. So what´s wrong? Ok, you can argue we could stop this kinky stuff (when he didn´t want to) and everything would be fine, but that´s this problem with perversity – you can´t live without it. You really can´t, I tried it, he tried it, a lot of other people tried... It´s something like you begin to thinking you don´t need sex at all. Everything you achieve is (in this fucking INFP B/W mind) loop like this: I won´t fuck anymore – I´m horny – I feel guilty - but I wanted to not have sex anymore – but I´m really horny – so I fuck - I feel really guilty and so I won´t fuck anymore again - I´m horny... and so on, to infinity. Equation has no solution.

After many attempts to find a solution to this situation my dear INFP fell into the depth of his morals and behaved perfectly according to his nature - he completely disappeared. Ok than... What could I do with him? (read: I was REALLY fucked up – try to imagine a lot of those things NTs usually don´t talk about. Try to imagine we also have feelings and emotions. Try to imagine we can experience a lot of this “roses are red...” stuff, it´s just... You know what I mean, don´t you?)

So he was pretending he doesn´t even exist and I was pretending I´m ok with that. Until recently – he wrote me years later that he was sorry, he knew he behaved like a jerk and if we can met again as friends. I said yes (of course) thus we met few times so far and I thought I´ll just observe his cute idealistic personality. Safely from a distance (Do you remember that “I´m not the robot” stuff? Yes, safely in this way). But things went strange again. He acts like we were dating again (not absolutely, but enough to get me confused). And during this baffling behavior he asked me, if I wanted to do some of the kinky stuff with him again. Ok... I´m very open minded, I have no problem with friendly fuck, I even haven´t problem with sex with one of my ex... Ok, in fact it´s quite nice offer... but... WHAT THE FUCK? His attitude to perversion is still the same and he actually doesn´t want to do "that things.” But... I mentioned the morality loop, didn´t I? Maybe it all could be much clearer if he doesn´t act so gently, almost romantically to me. If he just simply asked me if we couldn´t fuck together. NOT this combination. What does he imagines? That we will go out together, we have some drinks, long interesting conversations, other day we´ll fuck like in some kind of badass German porn and day after we'll go on a trip behaving almost like some lovers? Seriously?

So that´s it... thanks for your patience And finaly, I have few questions to ask:

1) What is going on?
2) How can any INFPs survive in this kind of ridiculous (ehem... I actually ment rigorous) morality at all?
3) Can I help him with it somehow? (Explanation doesn´t help, neither logic obviously.)
4) Can I do something in order to avoid his reaction years ago? (Not robot shit again... ehem...)

Please, help! I really need to see a hint of the rationality!

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=28206]Roadkill[/MENTION]

Maybe it all could be much clearer if he doesn´t act so gently, almost romantically to me. If he just simply asked me if we couldn´t fuck together. NOT this combination. What does he imagines? That we will go out together, we have some drinks, long interesting conversations, other day we´ll fuck like in some kind of badass German porn and day after we'll go on a trip behaving almost like some lovers? Seriously?


INFP’s do best when (hot) sex is coupled with meaningful connection. So, yes it's entirely possible that he wants to devour you sexually and also enjoy a tender connection Can you discuss what each of your expectations are?

1) What is going on?

The possible factors are many.

Have you been able to talk openly about this? Were you able to draw him out, asking questions?

- First, there may be biological explanation: Prolactin is a hormone that shoots sky-high in men immediately after orgasm. Studies have been done and the data suggests that intercourse produces higher rates of prolactin than masturbation does.

They also discovered that prolactin works like a thermostat to shut off desire and sexual appetite. So, basically the more satisfying the sex (in men with high levels of prolactin) the more immediately the male loses interest and sexual energy after climaxing.

This can make men feel powerless when they aren’t sure why they are experiencing such. The effect in animals studied - lasted for weeks - or longer in some cases.

- Is he very religious? Could there be that kind of guilt involved?

- Is he looking for casual connection or one more substantial? We communicate things with sex, like: satisfaction, bonding and commitment. If we aren’t emotionally invested and ready to communicate those, 'repenting' and withdrawing might seem like a great idea.

- Feelings of shame may also be the result of sex abuse OR early childhood normal, age-appropriate sex play that children were shamed for and made to feel bad.

- Guilt can also be felt about reverting to “animal behaviour”, leaving us ashamed about appearing selfish in our desires or about having lost control of ourselves. For an immature or unhealthy or immature INFP especially, there may be a struggle between “heart-felt meaningful expression” and hyper sexual drive and desires.

Elation can disappear into a dark cloud of worry that says: “no healthy person would ever feel this good after doing what I just did.” Thus, a person can start to question every pleasurable, powerful moment they experienced.

- In kinky sex, a person may feel they have no right to ‘feel good’ about something that involves another’s pain of discomfort. Referred to as ‘top guilt’.

Top Guilt: It Feels so Good so Why do I Feel So Bad?

Shame is usually about shoulds -- we think we should be behaving one way, but we behaved another way. Try to figure out which shoulds are asserting themselves.

Is it: We should conform.? We shouldn't rock the boat or ask for anything unusual? We should have sex in a manner others would approve of?

If people knew about your kinks, what do you imagine them saying? That's may be what HE is thinking about.

2) How can any INFPs survive in this kind of ridiculous (ehem... I actually ment rigorous) morality at all?

You and he think very differently. In order for a combo to work the attitude has to be: more fascination and less 'judgey' (smile). Maybe an INFP's own morality struggle drives them crazy...it doesn't matter because it IS. Try to figure out how his mind works, what questions could draw him out and enjoy the challenge. Instead of thinking his way is ridiculously rigorous, appreciate that it is different and how both of your opposite qualities can round each other out. Or don't if that doesn't seem appealing =bail

3) Can I help him with it somehow?

Frank discussion.

You could ask him:

"If a friend shared with you that they liked something you found odd, wouldn’t you just take it in stride as part of them? You wouldn't think they were wrong for having the desire, right? Because you know your friend is a good person - and that's just part of their sexuality.

So why are you judging yourself?"

4) Can I do something in order to avoid his reaction years ago?

Regardless of the reasons, his reactions are about what he is experiencing in his head. It is separate from you. However, it DOES affect you...so:

Could you talk this over with him BEFORE getting intimately involved again? Psychologist Joy Davidson says that how to deal with shame is to: speak of it, share it, expose it to the light and watch it burn away.

 

[1487610420]

1) What is going on?
2) How can any INFPs survive in this kind of ridiculous (ehem... I actually ment rigorous) morality at all?
3) Can I help him with it somehow? (Explanation doesn´t help, neither logic obviously.)
4) Can I do something in order to avoid his reaction years ago? (Not robot shit again... ehem...)

Please, help! I really need to see a hint of the rationality!

1)
2)
3)
4)

 

[Duffy]

Helpful resource.

Hmm... BDSM? Some dom/sub shit? He like it up that poop cooch?

 

[Rune]

It sounds like he was just making up excuses..

I don't know why..

and then he disappeared to gain understanding..
but by the time he gained the right information to be with you it was too late..?

I don't know.

but if you don't want to be with him, I would tell him so he doesn't get driven crazy. He seems confused to me.

 

[Arctic Hysteria]

You've gotten what you want: a playful and open-minded companion to lightheartedly explore new things with.

But if he is truly an INFP, he hasn't gotten what he wants from you.

INFPs can get along with any type and fulfill any type's desires, well, at first.
INFPs are extremely open-minded and natural born people pleasers. However, while it's fun and all, we desire the deep emotional and spiritual connection, and even though it might take some time and internal struggle to sever the attachment, we eventually leave once we know you are incapable of giving us what we need.

Bond-building process for INFPs:

1. Meet you, get fascinated by you and attracted to you because of your originality, your attention and the physical chemistry. INFPs don't hesitate to have sex early on once the chemistry is there.

2. Now we're closer to you, we'll assess you to see underneath all of that, whether or not it's possible that we can form a unique bond with you. We continue going the extra miles to please you the way YOU prefer, while hiding our innermost world and withholding our real thoughts.

3. If we realise that the "fun" stuff is all there is in the relationship, our intense internal struggles begin. It's "Maybe I'm just too idealistic and it's my fault" vs. "I have strong personal values, I know what I want and I will not become a martyr".

It's common that other types conclude that we can't make up our minds, that we're unpredictable and non-committal.

Not true.

We know it's hard to find another soul that can love us the way we can love them, therefore sometimes we just try to lower our expectation. It's very unhappy, miserable in fact, to try compromise our values and needs just to be with another person.


INFP and INFJ are very sensual people. To many INFx, sex is one of the gateways to our souls. We try to build an emotional bond with you through sex.

 

[PeaceBaby]

[MENTION=28206]Roadkill[/MENTION]: there's an emotional / value based connection he can't reconcile. He's drawn back to you since it's something he needs to be able to resolve, yet he's probably not aware of this "why". It's hard to gauge the level of kink we're talking about, but it seems clear that there is something highly shame-oriented for him in wanting what he wants and both wanting it and performing it makes him feel like a "bad person". It will take more than a "What's wrong with wanting what you want when I want it too" conversation to help him be ok with his desires. So can you help him? The route to helping him involves conversing about emotion and sourcing what he's feeling in the moment and connecting it to something highly painful in the past, something that evokes shame with barely a passing thought. Until he can "figure that out" there's not much else you can do and I wouldn't accept his current self-shaming as a cop-out to that examination.