[Si] Inferior Si in ENFPs and ENTPs

[Fuent]

How does this affect you guys? I don't understand how that works.

 

[Uytuun]

It works better than our Si probably.

 

[substitute]

Just not sure why it's in the NF subforum?

doesn't get me so badly because I've worked on it a lot and somehow Fi has become my inferior function. but when it gets me it makes me worry constantly that I've missed some detail, I become absorbed in trying to make sure I have my facts straight (though my judgement as to whether they're straight and what's relevant/isn't is screwed). I get tetchy and aggressive against anyone that tries to tell me I have my facts wrong and I see a simple and innocent request for examples and evidence as someone mocking me and invalidating me.

I'm not sure what else inferior Si does, I haven't been able to find any articles about it.

 

[entropie]

The only things I read about it so far and I did understand, where from the profile analysis by BlueWing. I myself really have not the experience to have pretty accurate thoughts by myself about that, that is why I relay the information only.

Taken from the INFJ / INTJ profile about Introverted Intuition (relating Si at this point):

"Even with only a slight increase in the power of the unconscious, the subjective component of sensation becomes so alive that it almost completely obscures the influence of the object. If the object is a person, he feels completely devalued, while the subject has an illusory conception of reality, which in pathological cases goes so far that he is no longer able to distinguish between the real object and the subjective perceptions....Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons. That they appear thus to him never enters his head, though that is just the effect they have on his judgments and actions. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality."

What, one may wonder, accounts for such a striking difference between the object itself and the IJ's perception thereof? Could it be due to the fact that this perception is Introverted? Namely that it defines the object by the internal agenda and the internal agenda itself is rarely clearly pronounced as it is an irrational function. Thus, if this were the case, the way the object is perceived is directly filtered through the scope of the introverted perception. For this reason, the objects are not assessed in terms of their own validity, but in terms of how they relate to the perceiver. Therefore, the perceiver tends to assume that the objects are much like himself, as he sees locomotives and animals as demons or benevolent deities.

The accentuation here was on the locomotives and animals because the Introverted Sensing type, the type that the previous quotation meant to depict is focused primarily on concrete things--or sensations. Hence, he anthropomorphizes concrete entities. Or assumes that the objects in themselves have much to do with his own personal qualities. This is precisely the reason why we often have seen eyes on the Moon, the nose on the sun, and the Sword in the hands of the cloud. So our mythologies have compelled us to see!

And finally taken from the ENFP / ENTP profile:

IV. Inferior Sensing
This function is anathema to the primary faculty of Extroverted Intuition. The ENFP rarely focuses on security concerns, or information that is relevant to him directly. Yet, the shadow side often manifests itself in terms of the ENFP inaccurately representing factual information and what requires concrete observation. When Introverted Sensing escapes the grasp of the ENFP’s conscious control, it will flood in a form of sensual and memory-oriented impulses. The insights he spews will be closely linked to his memories and deeply cherished beliefs. Since the Introverted Sensing is a servile lackey of the Extroverted Intuition in such a situation, memories will often be distorted to better fit the image the Extroverted Intuition wishes to see. Such an ENFP will likely also be permeated by an intense longing for security which stands in sharp contrast with his adventurous approach to life.

--------

Would like to tell you more, but I havent understood it myself yet. And by the way, I just do not have the experience to deal with all that psychology and philosophy things.

 

[Fuent]

Yeah i think i get it now. Ne makes you guys adventurous and the inferior Si interferes with that because it has the opposite view of the unknown. It wants to be safe. So yeah i see how dominant and inferior functions are on the same axis and interfere with each other now. Makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong. Pleese.

 

[entropie]

I guess your are right but I think there is more to it also. I do not think that Ne and Si work as opposites of the same strength, it is more Si influencing Ne, like a little devil in the ear telling you what to do.

When Si ist the ability to perceive the world internally. What for example means for the perceiver like BlueWing said: "the objects are not assessed in terms of their own validity, but in terms of how they relate to the perceiver. Therefore, the perceiver tends to assume that the objects are much like himself, as he sees locomotives and animals as demons or benevolent deities."

That would mean that when Ne in the ENTP or ENFP comes up with an insight or the big image of a situation that this insight could not be a rare and pure idea, but it will most probably be influenced through the shadow Si.

That means, if there is for example a conversation going on in the forums and I am having while reading an idea, how to completly newly approach the subject. I will be, naturally firstly be very happy that I found a new approach to the discussion. Then I can go off in such a way that I would think, I absolutely have answered now the question to life, the universe and everything, because I am so fascinated by myself having had that insight that I am totally into it.

Until this point this is nothing what is related to Si. But then it could happen that my perception of reality was influenced by a very own perception of reality, an internal perception.

Maybe I implied through my idea that "Japanese cars are evil" without me ever having drove a japanese car or the fact that a car can be "evil" making any sense.

To say it more directly: Ne could be manipulated through Si. And while Si is an internal way of perceiving the world and Ne is a fantasy way of perceiving the world, this can make a hazardous mixture, concerning mental sanity for example.

 

[arcticangel02]

Wait a moment. Sometimes I get into situations where, when I think someone is interested in me romantically, I get sort of freaked out and have this great big urge to backpedal rapidly away from the situation. In this case, I also notice that my recollections of said person seem to be replayed back to me in a negative light, although I am almost certain that there was nothing negative in it when I was experiencing it.

Could that be Si, using Ne to distort how I percieve those memories with negative possibilities and meanings that hadn't occured to me before? Or am I completely off base?

 

[entropie]

I dont know, it is BlueWings theory and only my understanding of it. But I am an engineer and not a psychologist.

What you describe is too concious for the theory, I think. It could be Si and it could be not. The theory in itself is more about talking how someone actually perceives the world he lives in. If you strip it down to the basics, you can see urself as an individuum participating in the world. And the theory describes, how you see the world. How you experience it and how you feel, smell and hear it.

It is a very basic and conceptual thing, I do not know, if that what you described is not already too big, to be ONLY explained through this theory.

 

[mlittrell]

because ENTPs and ENFPs have different functions (somewhat) it affects both differently.

 

[phoenix13]

As I understand it, Si uses past experiences to filter present perception. When my shadow Si comes up, it uses my past failures to convince me that nothing I ever do will succeed. I become this uber "realistic" hard-nosed pessimist that's completely irrational and just plain mean. I hate when that happens...

EDIT: I just saw this:

Wait a moment. Sometimes I get into situations where, when I think someone is interested in me romantically, I get sort of freaked out and have this great big urge to backpedal rapidly away from the situation. In this case, I also notice that my recollections of said person seem to be replayed back to me in a negative light, although I am almost certain that there was nothing negative in it when I was experiencing it.

Could that be Si, using Ne to distort how I percieve those memories with negative possibilities and meanings that hadn't occured to me before? Or am I completely off base?

I think you're on home plate after a home run, girlfriend!

 

[Fuent]

Wait a moment. Sometimes I get into situations where, when I think someone is interested in me romantically, I get sort of freaked out and have this great big urge to backpedal rapidly away from the situation. In this case, I also notice that my recollections of said person seem to be replayed back to me in a negative light, although I am almost certain that there was nothing negative in it when I was experiencing it.

Could that be Si, using Ne to distort how I percieve those memories with negative possibilities and meanings that hadn't occured to me before? Or am I completely off base?

No you're right on. You nailed it. That's Ni telling me you nailed it.

 

[Fuent]

I dont know, it is BlueWings theory and only my understanding of it. But I am an engineer and not a psychologist.

What you describe is too concious for the theory, I think. It could be Si and it could be not. The theory in itself is more about talking how someone actually perceives the world he lives in. If you strip it down to the basics, you can see urself as an individuum participating in the world. And the theory describes, how you see the world. How you experience it and how you feel, smell and hear it.

It is a very basic and conceptual thing, I do not know, if that what you described is not already too big, to be ONLY explained through this theory.

Your posts explained it well. I understand now.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

Si is one of those little things that has driven me nuts. I am a very curious person by nature so not understanding the nature of something can really drive me up the wall. One of these things that I can't even begin to comprehend seems to be Si. I personally feel that my maturity in this area is hopelessly primitive. Though some people have explained it to me, I only seem to notice it as a pastime function and almost never as an analytical perception function.

What I mean by passtime function is that sometimes I smell certain scents, hear certain sounds that might trigger certain memories or emotional states. For example, I was sitting down outside of class next to a busy street and had my eyes closed, all of a sudden, I felt like I was back in New York, even though I haven't been there in over a decade. The other night I was riding in the passenger seat, and just staring at the sky, all of a sudden the way it looked made me go back to a night when my dad was driving and I was staring out the window. Instances like these seem to be my only experience with Si (if that is what these are), but when it does happen it is exhilerating.

Even though I don't go out of my way to play on team sports (I am a monster when competition is involved), when I am playing soccer or something of that nature I seem to go into this hyperfocus mode where I can see every play before it happens and can predicate every move of my opponent before they do it. Imagine slow motion video to understand what I mean by the previous statement.

I hope that is kinda what you are looking for.