[INFJ] Infjs and energy conservation

[Fidelia]

Infjs, do you find that many of your behaviours and preferences have a lot to do with energy conservation? I hadn't thought about this before, but I think it may be a thing. I'd also be interested in feedback from people in relation ships with infjs or who are very close to one.

I think we don't compartmentalize well, so an emotional drain affects physical energy or wellness and physical takes a lot out of our emotional banks too.

Some examples of where I think I avoid or prefer certain things to conserve energy for a more useful or enjoyable purpose....

- Anticipating future problems of all sorts and going to heroic lengths to avoid them because I'm poor at acting on the fly. I'm not an organizer by nature except if the absence of leadership or organizing causes bigger problems than me taking it on would for me.

- Avoiding committees or other situations that involve group consensus because juggling everyone's wants and needs as well as my own takes more out of me than I get in return out of the experience.

- Over accommodating, not out of naivety or wimpiness, but because it's easier to manage myself rather than deal with other people's negative emotions or behaviours.

- If in doubt, going with what's familiar because I already know how I'll feel about it and how I want to react or respond. That's why I admire people who can get me to try new things. It takes me a long time to even figure out what I feel about something or make connections between my physical reactions and emotions, so unless I know it's going to be worth going out on a limb, I tend to play it safe.

- Becoming very avoidant or indulging Se quick fixes to feel better because dealing with problems where I have little way of affecting the outcome directly or can't see what to do takes too much out of me physically and emotionally.

- Analyzing cost/benefit of confrontation. Many think it's fear, bit i think it's more about conserving energy, at least for me. It's also why if I'm working closely with someone or they are part of my inner circle, they'll hear more of the negative unedited me than casual friends or acquaintances will. There is some degree of calculating social cost (which sounds gross to non Fe people), but it's also that the more entwined someone's life is with mine, the more it's worth it to try to communicate more completely. With others I wouldn't be inauthentic, but I would probably be quiet or disengage more if I couldn't find points of commonality.

- Disengaging with people who cause a lot of drama in the environment around them, or with people who see things too differently from me for us to find a way of communicating that is satisfactory to both of us.

Oddly, despite wanting to conserve energy, my passive natural default usually keeps me from proactively seeking out and initiating connections that truly give me some mental or emotional juice and instead allow in a lot of needy or domineering people who drain energy by being exceptionally self-centered and uninteresting people. I think I'm improving in this regard, but that's kind of my mission in the next year to focus on.

Also, my unawareness of my own needs and feelings in the moment often results in forgetting to pursue things like socializing, exercise or reading for fun that would boost my energy levels significantly. Similarly, I often forget how what I'm eating may affect the way that I feel and the amount of motivation I have.

 

[Fidelia]

Oh yeah, I also notice a pattern when I was a kid (and into adulthood) of finding people who actually enjoy doing things that I am capable of but don't enjoy or want to learn the process of doing it and getting them to do the thing for me. I wouldn't if I felt they experienced it as an imposition,but if they enjoy it and I don't, usually I'll let them do it if they want to. I tend to be very final product oriented, so unless I can find personal significance in the process, it doesn't interest me.

I believe that again, this is a form of energy conservation. For example, I didn't bother cooking throughout university and a couple of years after. However, later when I lived in a close knit teacher community on a reserve and had a boyfriend that enjoyed entertaining, I actually really had fun cooking and became quite good at it. But I needed an underlying need and a reason it would give me something back ( as opposed to cooking for myself) before it became appealing, even though I had no doubt I had the ability if I wanted to.

 

[Fidelia]

Even things like someone's moodiness annoys me because I can't shut off having to monitor it. Especially of they are just being self indulgent about it, it bothers me because it saps my energy whether I want it to or not. I'm better at being able to turn it off than I was, but the closer someone is to me, the more I'm affected by it.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I'll probably have more to say later, but I do think it's a thing.

I think it's the reason behind the privacy too- why we're so loathe to air dirty laundry. It takes WAY too much work to clean up messes made public, it creates WAY too much to think about and I'm not likely to forget if someone who drags me into some melodramatic public spectacle with them.

In fact, I don't think it's conflict I'm averse to- with people who can speak my language I can hear practically anything. The problem that surfaces, for me, with 'hearing' the other side during conflict is when there are mixed messages. I hear everything all at once- not just the words coming out of them but the context in which they're said, if they've ever asserted the contrary when situations are reversed, if they're emotionally charged while saying it, and about a million other things that aren't immediately coming to mind. I don't go looking for these extra things to 'discredit' what they're saying- many things I've already observed (not even consciously- observations are constant and happen on their own) about them surface for me on their own. And the worst part is, I won't even be entirely sure what the mixed messages are, I'll just know there's too much *something* interfering with what they're saying- (eta) there's always the chance that *something* is actually happening on my end (/eta)- sometimes it takes a long time to realize why I couldn't 'hear' something a person was trying to tell me (usually way too long for it to be appropriate for me to find the person and let them know why I couldn't 'hear' them).

I think Ni can be crazy implosive like that- conflict with people who just don't know how to be careful about what they're saying (making sure they are consistent, making sure they aren't making a bigger mess than is necessary- for example, keeping it private, maybe bringing in a trusted third party if needed but not making a public spectacle- etc) is just TOO much work for Ni. As much as some people seem to hate the way INFJs are careful in this regard, I sure as hell appreciate it from fellow INFJs. The signal expands/unzips like crazy when people aren't careful and there just isn't the bandwith to work through ALL the hiccups with the other person, sometimes there just isn't enough ROI with that person to make it worth it. I do much better with getting the sterilized version to begin with.

[Getting tired, not even sure I'm answering the op at this point and I might even be talking out of my ass a little bit (because tired), so I'll probably come back to this.]

 

[ceecee]

I think Ni can be crazy implosive like that- conflict with people who just don't know how to be careful about what they're saying (making sure they are consistent, making sure they aren't making a bigger mess than is necessary- for example, keeping it private, maybe bringing in a trusted third party if needed but not making a public spectacle- etc) is just TOO much work for Ni. As much as some people seem to hate the way INFJs are careful in this regard, I sure as hell appreciate it from fellow INFJs.

I appreciate it.

 

[Fidelia]

I also think it's one of the reasons I am prone to take privacy too far - if I can't justify something to myself as far as where it could be headed, yet haven't hit anything bad yet, I'm loathe to make it public till those questions are resolved to my satisfaction. However, that can go from carefulness about having something embarrassing or messy go public till I know I can explain it well to my critics in a way that satisfies me, to secrecy, which is no good. That may be true for anything from eating habits to relationships. I am self-conscious ( in front of my own self more than anything) and also impacted by what is mirrored back to me so not all of what I'm thinking of is even harmful really, but I think a lack of being up front when one should be or a habit of hiding little things is not a good pattern to fall into.

Similarly, I share very little that matters deeply to me or is a part of my identity until people have gone through various doors further and further in and behaved well there. Again, I don't want to deal with my own feelings of hurt or annoyance or resentment if someone inadvertently steps on me, so it's easier to have an unconscious system of security clearance levels than sort through stuff after the fact (especially because people rarely intend to cause harm, yet sometimes they do anyway and a response to that is necessary).

People with whom there is easy understanding and communication make it through quite quickly and easily. I'm pretty open by nature but am protective of unprocessed feelings except with someone that I know has proper context and skills. I have found that I do very well with someone who is a very forthright communicator, so long as I feel heard and am assured that they are not rejecting my core self. I even have found that successfully navigating hard communication with someone makes me feel very close to them. That's why I think it's not so much conflict avoidance, but energy conservation that is the issue.

 

[Fidelia]

Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting that all these examples are infj things for sure. I'm sure that ennegramtype and instinctual stacking as well as upbringing all influence this too, but I think I've noticed that of the types, infjs seem to want to analyze the cost of nearly everything they engage in and they also often have other types complain about how rigid they are and how they view themselves as static. I just was thinking about what all contributes to that perception, as well as similar behaviours being fueled by completely different motivations, depending on type.

I think we're bad at processing in the moment and also deciding which details to give weight to until we've observed for a long time. People don't value vague Ni impressions and it takes quite a time to back them up and then decide what to do. A lot of infjs as a result don't verbalize problems in real time because they don't realize how much they are actually being impacted till a straw breaks the camel's back ( they are often as surprised as the other person), or they think that rationally explaining to themselves why their feelings aren't justified or the other person's actions are explainable should make the resulting emotion go away. Stuff that isn't being processed consciously just seems to slow the whole system down and also seems to result in physical symptoms till the emotion is properly acknowledged and an outlet provided for it.

It seems that although we're very reflective in some regards, we're also much more aware of how others work than how we do.

 

[IndigoViolet11]

I will see what others got to say in here..

Your situation, all you have said apply to me quite a lot. Sometimes whether I am clear of something about myself or not I am not sure, but being actually overpowered by what I either feel, or as a way of observing, putting them in my mind, and analysis what I saw, internally. But if a friend totally rejects my true self, which one did, by injecting herself to me, then they will be treated badly as well, but I mean, just end of friendship without the need of even explaining, of a waste of my time to someone who was unwilling to listen anyways.

On the other hand I think an imbalanced give and take relationship would always end up hurting one party, and then later, both of them. It is not worth the energy not only because imo, of the conserving nature of infj, but because it is worthless to me to have one extra word to those who will rebound them back to me anyways. People aint gonna listen if they do not want to. I don't particularly enjoy making my matters worst, or get a couple extra curses, bad feedbacks, efforts etc. I think it is more of a big picture of how things should be in the inner world, not so much that this is any kind of selfishness. After all, those who enjoy taking advantages wont have a very good relationship with others, at least not forever.

 

[EJCC]

OP totally resonates with my experience. And I actually have a theory about this!

Bear with me here. And (even though this should go without saying) don't hesitate to correct me if I'm completely off-base.

(Caveat beforehand: I see this energy-usage problem as something that all introverts experience -- what with one of the primary traits of introverts being a hyper-awareness of their own energy reserves and what is required to keep them at capacity. Additional caveat: the main INFJ that I'm close with is a 1w2, so everything I've written below is skewed in that direction.)

Of all the MBTI types, I feel like INFJs are the most overwhelmed by what they have to see and deal with on a day to day basis. The things they are most drawn to are the things that drain them most, in a lot of ways.

1) Dominant Ni means seeing broad perspectives and future outcomes that most people don't see (which are frequently right, though sometimes not right, and ALWAYS difficult to explain to others).
2) Auxiliary Fe necessitates people-orientation and group-orientation -- not in terms of what they do, but in terms of where their focus lies. It means being VERY aware of what other people are feeling and what (they believe) other people need. To a degree, it can necessitate a feeling of obligation to act in times of (perceived) crisis.

Combine those two and you get a great big group of INFJ Cassandras who can see a terrible future and feel (almost morally) compelled to prevent it from coming to pass -- and yet, due to their limited energy, they have to decide, almost moment to moment, whether they can afford to attempt to prevent that terrible future -- even when it's very likely that no one will understand them or listen to them, or that something they say will spark some kind of conflict or drama (another possible terrible future). Constant worse case scenarios. Constant people-drama. Even when people are so exhausting to them -- even when they only have so much person-related energy.

You see a similar push-pull instinct with INTJs (trying to decide whether it's worth it to prevent stupid people from doing stupid shit on a cosmic level), but my experience has been that they don't let it stress them out 24/7 the way that INFJs do. They're more likely to be jaded about the whole thing and stay back most of the time, whereas idealistic INFJs keep making and re-making and re-making that decision every day.

 

[Fidelia]

Yes, I think in part that's true, but also think we are so unaware of our own feelings and needs that it's not till AFTER we've drained every last drop that we suddenly realize that is the case. It's rather embarrassing really, like running out of gas on the road habitually, yet driving a car that doesn't have a proper gas tank gauge. Other people assume it is irresponsibility or being broke after it happens more than once, but it's not.

You are right that we are drawn to things that also drain our reserves, but part of the problem is that sometimes it vastly fills them, so it's hard to know which it will be. Whether we think we are saving the universe though, or just enjoying solving and analyzing human problems, it is hard to gauge in the moment what effect it is having on us, as well as it seeming imperative either way.

It's very hard to just turn off monitoring everything even though it uses up a lot of energy, so I think we become hyper vigilant about situations that have proven unproductive and draining in the past.

I can see the folly in the perspective, including that the world doesn't always need us to save the day or foretell the future and all problems can't be avoided. It's striking a balance that is the issue though.

 

[Fidelia]

I actually kind of wonder what it must be not to have to keep the energy issue on the radar all the time. I am a pretty extraverted introvert, I think due to being a teacher, having an enfj mother who helped me to develop my Fe early on, and being social first in instinctual stacking. I don't find i need large tracts of time to recharge. However, I often overlook the Se activities and proactively pursuing people that would refuel me. It's only when I start noticing myself becoming lethargic or overindulgent that I realize something is wrong and even then, I can't always tell what it is right away. An entp friend and I were talking about it and he likened it to trying to figure out what the crying baby inside us want? Hungry? No. Not enough sleep? No. Lonely? Oh maybe. Etc.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION] I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea that you could be unaware of your own needs and also hyper-aware of your energy level at the same time. Does it have less to do with energy usage and more to do with energy recharging? If so, I have that exact problem, but had associated it with being sp-last. I assume this goes deeper and is more complex with INFJs though.

Has it been your experience that this is an INFJ thing across the board? I have never noticed with the INFJs in my life an inability to get a good grasp on their needs.

 

[Fidelia]

Most of the infjs I know are good at figuring out other people but not actually terribly good at figuring out themselves. I think it is very trial and error to know what drains us and a lot of our avoidant tendencies are not for the reason that we initially think they are. A lot of our energy conservation is done on an unconscious level. That's why it was a bit of a revelation to me as I was discussing it with a friend to see a common thread in a lot of my behaviour and choices.

I think a lot of the time we deal with stuff in a conscious way but are painfully unaware of how unprocessed or pushed down/ignored emotional stuff is affecting us till it already has in a big way. So we might know the cup is filling up, but don't know if it's halfway or about to overflow till there's water all over the table.

To understand what's bugging me, I either need to talk about it and have it take shape through articulating it and someone else's reaction or I need to write it and then read it back. It's almost like if I'm experiencing it first hand, I can't tell anything much other than that I'm upset. The more distraught I am, the more suspicious, paranoid, overindulgent, avoidant I am and I have enough experience that I don't trust my own impressions. As I can distance myself and almost observe it second hand, then it becomes more clear.

That's why most infjs won't talk about problems in the moment unless the person knows how to listen in a way that doesn't bring a personal element back in, or they are just venting off excess frustration. They need time to step back and let all the mud in the water settle so they can see what's what.

I ran across a good explanation of this somewhere. I'll see if I can find the link. You are right that infj's can articulate their needs, but I think it's only after processing a bunch that it happens. In the moment, they might know what they don't need, but they can't say what they do or say what's really at the heart of what's upsetting them because they aren't sure themselves and without providing evidence, they feel that the feeling must not be valid or won't be perceived as valid.

That recent video Highlander posted on how infjs process emotions was spot on for me.

So yeah, I don't think it's just an anomaly with me. Read a lot of the negative threads about infjs during a break up and you'll see someone who is acting without having had time to observe the situation second hand. Usually someone keeps wanting them to talk or act before it is time or is saying that the feelings they have are unreasonable and they either doorslam (to conserve energy and get distance) or act badly in the moment.

I find that one new piece of information can make a whole situation look differently to me. This might appear fickle for something that was a big deal suddenly not be or something we acted fine about to suddenly be the end of the world, but we really struggle with knowing what stuff to see as valid concerns or boundary crossing and what stuff might just be a passing feeling. Once Ni picks up on a reoccurring pattern though, which takes time to do, then it can figure out motive. That's why infjs may appear to be kind of codependent or put up with stuff they shouldn't. It's not that they are unaware, but they haven't decided the underlying reason and it's also hard for them to choose which things to make a big deal out of until they see the big picture, almost like pointillism. One for isn't that meaningful, but together they offer meaningful information. But to the outside onlooker it just seems capricious or overly picky. When we finally do see the final picture though, it may be that we've been invalidating our own uneasy or negative feelings till we can prove to other people that it is reasonable. In the process we end up looking more unreasonable!

Sorry, that's a bunch of scattershot ideas.

 

[Norrsken]

People think I'm super lazy but that's only because it is how I view how things will pan out in the short versus long term. I won't break my back learning a bunch things early in life because I did not see the need to until and when the situation pops up. I did not learn how to cook until around my early twenties, during and after my college days when I was cohabiting with my husband before our wedding. The cost/benefit thing you wrote is definitely what I go through on a daily basis. Everyday life is super draining for me, and so I am very careful on how I expend that energy, or else I will burn out. I am also very conflict avoidant, I just do what I'm told and that's it.

Socializing and counseling people is both a pleasure and a nightmare for me, and I always kick myself at the end of the day when people are ringing my phone off the chain with their bullshit and they deem me their personal full time therapist because, hey, I did that to myself, being seemingly so into them and wanting to help them. I wanted to help them because of what they'll do with it without me staying in the picture in the long term.. only for them to turn around and be like, nah, I wanna complain 24/7, and it's all cool, because theforsaken will be there for me.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I plan to come back and read this thread in more detail, but I would say energy conservation dictates most of my decisions - especially social decisions.

For individual work I go from periods of explosive productivity to complete collapse. I'm not good at the systematic, even-kealed work production.

 

[Fidelia]

In rereading this stuff, I'd also say that energy conversation is done mostly unconsciously. It never even occurred to me till recently when trying to explain why I do things differently to one of my Ne dom friends that there was a common thread behind a lot of the decisions I make. It didn't occur to me that that was what I was doing or why I operated that way.

I just was thinking about the Fe sort of annoyance of people polluting their atmosphere with gratuitously, non-productive emotions. I think it is harder for us to separate our own feelings from other people's mixing with them and colouring them, yet I realize that the message I am conveying is that people are only welcome if they can meet me on my terms, which doesn't allow for real vulnerability or intimacy. I'm not yet sure of how to change that completely, but I think awareness is a beginning. I realized just now that a lot of the resentment I feel around it is not centred around the emotion specifically, but rather the amount of work that it creates for me to process and untangle it all, and when I am functioning with a bare minimum of extra margin to begin with, it feels like a selfish thing for others to habitually dump. Now, of course, in a rational sense, I realize that they are neither doing anything intentionally to me, and that my response is also my own responsibility, but on an emotional level it is something that creates frustration, and therefore anger. Then I feel it's irrational to act angry, but I do feel it, and so end up talking myself out of it, but it just goes underground and inward and is physically exhausting.

In the last while, I've realized how much my undealt with frustration (and resulting emotion) has been stagnant long enough to not be recognized for what it is specifically and therefore is just hangs around and causes damage and takes a physical toll. So, I've been doing a lot of thinking and researching about what moves that along, without just trying to stifle it. It's early, but I think I'm making some gradual process. I wonder if habitually working on that may end up resulting in more left over energy as well with which to process other things.

 

[mystik_INFJ]

mgh = 1/2 mv^2

In all fairness, I think energy is best conserved by avoiding the things you don't like, unlike physics and the formula above, some INFJs may conserve energy differently. The only constant that seems to universally drain INFJs is prolonged social exposure and physical work.

The rest is...

Just wasting energy.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

For me the main energy draining is dealing with people. I feel like culture is generally based on people focused on taking as much as they can get. When everyone acts in this way there is a certain equilibrium. My family never operated that way, and especially my mother, sister, and myself tended to have people who have needs really latch on to try to get all their needs met when they meet someone who seems nice and accommodating. Even more than that, in dealing with people in general it can feel like the culture is for everyone to take as much as they can, and it is up to each individual to say 'no', rather than a focus on empathy where you don't take in directions you can see have limited resources.

This is cynical, but I've learned that in dealing with people, there is always some point you have to say 'no'. Many don't like it and will make you feel like you are bad or something to not comply. It has helped me to let go of feeling too concerned or responsible. I just assume at some point any person could be mad I didn't give them more. This gives me freedom to tell people 'no' sooner. I also leave scenarios and people who are treating me badly. I've left a path of carnage of people annoyed they couldn't force me to take their crap because I just left and ignore their berating. I make an effort to feel comfortable living around people who are disgruntled at me, and I'm about 85% at peace with it. I also try to be fair about it and not get disgruntled at other people when they need time and space.

I'm very self-analytical, so I think I am generally aware of my needs, but when I've been in environments where there is intensely dominant external influences like religion or relationships I've been in, the sheer force of the outside demands made me not value my needs. I knew what they were, but everything outside me was presented as such an emergency and demand that I felt forced to devalue my needs. Actually, there was one environment that was so loud with external needs, that when I left I couldn't form any opinions, even for what to eat or movies to watch. It was like coming out of an artificially created emergency scenario that lasted six years. It is instinctual to place personal needs on hold during a crisis, so it was like an extended crisis that created the habit of not be able to look inward. Basically what I've always needed is quiet time every day alone in nature to meditate and think. When I don't get that, my soul shrivels up.

Right now I need to live quietly alone with my boyfriend away from most people. Unfortunately the external force of money and bills keeps me from getting that need met.

 

[Dolce vita]

I do have energy issues but through self study I'm beginning to understand why and how to help this. First I identify with being an Empath. This led me to Rose Rosetree's book called Become The Most Important Person In the Room. She claims to be able to teach you how to become a skilled Empath. Some of her techniques have worked for me, some haven't. But she helped me understand what are my feelings and what are someone else's. And how to clear others emotions, this helps me stay energized. Good luck!


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[21%]

I identify with the OP almost 100% and will definitely come back after I've gathered more thought!