[INFJ] shower thought (unconscious Fi)

[Pionart]

It isn’t phenomena, it isn’t a thing at all.

There is a big difference between body language a d physical characteristics like the size of ones wrist.

Indigo Rodent knows visual reading better than me, but I think the reference to the wrists was about a tightness/rigidity or looseness, which actually is body language, not physical characteristic.

However, physical characteristics can actually be indicators of psychological configuration/preference as well. (or so I suspect etc.)


I think the theoretical basis for the wrists thing is that P types have a more relaxed mindset in general, and you can see the relaxation in the wrists for example, and Js are more tightly wound which can be seen through a rigidity in the wrists.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

That won't hold up all the time of course. It could be the same type as a grandparent for instance.

It does so far, though.

What about ENFJ?

No charisma. Deadish eyes. She's constantly straining to use the feeling function.

ENFJs list is massively contaminated with Thinkers who he is re-typing en masse now, btw.

This one is probably a real ENFJ:
YouTube

YouTube She seems to have a neutral expression when disengaged from the environment, then she focuses on the other person again with a smile.

I think on 10:50 she uses both primary and auxiliary when she's neutralising the most.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

It isn’t phenomena, it isn’t a thing at all.

There is a big difference between body language a d physical characteristics like the size of ones wrist.

There's difference between body language and whenever given body language is natural for a person or forced.

When body language is natural, the person gains energy and when it's forced, the person loses energy. Also, there's a difference between intensity of body language.

Basically, if one uses first two functions, one gains energy, if one uses two second functions one loses energy. This translates itself into body language. If I want to talk unemotionally (neutralized facial expression) and refer to remembered facts and physical reality (narrowed eyes), I lose energy and slow down because I use Te and Si which are my two last functions. If I zone out and use abstract concepts (widened eyes), I gain energy, same with emoting.
If I want to precisely interact with physical reality and not drop things and not bump into things, I need to prop up my Si with my Fi so that I wouldn't run out of energy.

Using my Si is draining to me because it's my inferior function - my energy is drained, I slow down. There's a physical feedback.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Body language and facial expressions are most certainly tied to psychological preferences. With time, repeated gestures can sculpt physical characteristics which are easily observable, such as the furrowed concerned brow line of a 6, which peaks sharply at center above the nose. Some people who aren't 6s can't even mimic this expression enough to look like an actual 6. 8s carry themselves with more confidence, power, or gusto and consequently tend to stand taller with more broad shoulders, ready to take on anything (cp6 does too but there is more of a tension and a sense of needing to prove themselves to a threatening world... it's a bit showy). 4s conversely withdraw into themselves and feel insecure in image, so they have a tendency to stoop the shoulders forward, shrinking in shame (like cp6, they can also counteract this and present themselves the way they want to be seen, which would look however they want, but likely a bit regal, mysterious, and untouchable... dramatic withdrawal while still fanning a peacock tail).

It's not astrophysics, people... this shit is easily observable if you are even minimally capable of picking up on patterns.

 

[Pionart]

It does so far, though.

Unless I've typed myself wrong, or my father wrong, and I'm pretty certain I've got my own type right (through identification of "under the hood" order of cognitive processes), then I'm not the same type as my father. My mother even stated the other day that my facial features are not like my father's, and are much closer to my cousin on her side of the family.

No charisma. Deadish eyes. She's constantly straining to use the feeling function.

ENFJs list is massively contaminated with Thinkers who he is re-typing en masse now, btw.

This one is probably a real ENFJ:
YouTube


I think on 10:50 she uses both primary and auxiliary when she's neutralising the most.

Well I disagree with your assessment. I see an emotive emphasis on forward articulation, often with a neutralised disengagement that is quickly softened with a smile.

I won't spend any more time on this part of the discussion though because I generally don't do typings these days. Regina Spektor is just one of my favourite celebrities.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

Unless I've typed myself wrong, or my father wrong, and I'm pretty certain I've got my own type right (through identification of "under the hood" order of cognitive processes), then I'm not the same type as my father. My mother even stated the other day that my facial features are not like my father's, and are much closer to my cousin on her side of the family.

Unless.

Well I disagree with your assessment. I see an emotive emphasis on forward articulation, often with a neutralised disengagement that is quickly softened with a smile.

People don't need Fe to smile while talking to someone. It's hard to even call what she does articulation. She's not pushing any agenda most of time, just talking about her life. Actually, it's quite interesting because she seems to be mostly talking about how things were and felt. Hell, she constantly talks about how she loves this or loves that. She's very weird, she seems to be almost infantile O_O . Like, there's no agenda, just rambling about memories and loving this and loving that.

 

[Pionart]

People don't need Fe to smile while talking to someone. It's hard to even call what she does articulation. She's not pushing any agenda most of time, just talking about her life. Actually, it's quite interesting because she seems to be mostly talking about how things were and felt. Hell, she constantly talks about how she loves this or loves that. She's very weird, she seems to be almost infantile O_O . Like, there's no agenda, just rambling about memories and loving this and loving that.

What do you mean by "agenda" exactly? (and what does it mean to "push" an agenda?)

--

And ok, I wasn't going to, but I'm having another go at typing her, and ENFP seems more likely now.

I could have been misreading, but not necessarily. A person can be sometimes ENFP and sometimes ENFJ.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

What do you mean by "agenda" exactly? (and what does it mean to "push" an agenda?)

Articulation is specifically for structured speech. I guess pushing an agenda is making arguments. So it would be either using Te or Fe to push arguments.

And ok, I wasn't going to, but I'm having another go at typing her, and ENFP seems more likely now.

I could have been misreading, but not necessarily. A person can be sometimes ENFP and sometimes ENFJ.

She's not a perceiver, she's has rigid wrists. Emilia Clarke does the same shtick as her when it comes to using Fi in coversation but she's much faster - she has fast slurred speech because she actually has aux Fi. Emilia Clarke's emoting is also pretty much effortless.

YouTube

 

[Pionart]

Articulation is specifically for structured speech. I guess pushing an agenda is making arguments. So it would be either using Te or Fe to push arguments.


She's not a perceiver, she's has rigid wrists. Emilia Clarke does the same shtick as her when it comes to using Fi in coversation but she's much faster - she has fast slurred speech because she actually has aux Fi. Emilia Clarke's emoting is also pretty much effortless.

YouTube

Well fuckin'... I dunno, but I don't buy it.

 

[Pionart]

[MENTION=38911]Indigo Rodent[/MENTION]

I've had yet another look, this time going at it from the function order perspective (though I'm user briefer function iterations of maybe 20 seconds each rather than the 2 minute ones I mentioned to you earlier. It can be done like that because function order manifests in a fractal pattern where each function has (I think) 4 components to it, and likewise each cluster of 4 functions combines to make another function), and it confirms what I had said earlier.

In the interview we've been looking at - and I couldn't get a full read because it plays a bit of the interview, then cuts to a later time thus breaking the function order - she seems to be ENFJ. In this interview YouTube which is the one that I was looking at when I decided she was an ENFP, the function order read as ENFP.

That's an important phenomenon to note. Whether I got it right in this particular instance is somewhat beside the point, but the main point is that people in general shift between different types. The "I am INFJ and not INTJ or INFP or ENFJ or any other type, I'm just INFJ" approach is misled. It's like saying "I use Ne and no other function". It's clearly wrong. But the "one type per person" rule at least could be true, but it's not. You can experiment with it yourself if you'd like. I've been doing intentional type switches all day to investigate non-INFJ cognition and it can be quite a learning experience, as well as balancing out the one-sidedness of identifying yourself purely with a single form that your mind can take and rejecting all else.


--

To answer the actual thread for once: INFJ tends to have secondary INFP cognition, so that could explain it a bit in terms of identification with the author. INFJ also forms an association between Ne, Fi and the anima/animus (which is NOT just about your idealisation of the opposite gender, but is a general sense of positivity associated with the other such as one's passions) and this gives a usually positive relation.

 

[ceecee]

I thought this was about thoughts one has in the shower....

 

[Indigo Rodent]

[MENTION=38911]Indigo Rodent[/MENTION]

I've had yet another look, this time going at it from the function order perspective (though I'm user briefer function iterations of maybe 20 seconds each rather than the 2 minute ones I mentioned to you earlier. It can be done like that because function order manifests in a fractal pattern where each function has (I think) 4 components to it, and likewise each cluster of 4 functions combines to make another function), and it confirms what I had said earlier.

In the interview we've been looking at - and I couldn't get a full read because it plays a bit of the interview, then cuts to a later time thus breaking the function order - she seems to be ENFJ. In this interview YouTube which is the one that I was looking at when I decided she was an ENFP, the function order read as ENFP.

That's an important phenomenon to note. Whether I got it right in this particular instance is somewhat beside the point, but the main point is that people in general shift between different types. The "I am INFJ and not INTJ or INFP or ENFJ or any other type, I'm just INFJ" approach is misled. It's like saying "I use Ne and no other function". It's clearly wrong. But the "one type per person" rule at least could be true, but it's not. You can experiment with it yourself if you'd like. I've been doing intentional type switches all day to investigate non-INFJ cognition and it can be quite a learning experience, as well as balancing out the one-sidedness of identifying yourself purely with a single form that your mind can take and rejecting all else.

My type turns into SiFi as I cringe at the idea of people following "function order" *grantorino.gif*.

 

[Pionart]

My type turns into SiFi as I cringe at the idea of people following "function order" *grantorino.gif*.

Ok, why?