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  1. #11
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo Rodent View Post
    Okay, maybe trauma was too strong word. But from what I understand, enneatype is created by childhood experiences. Trauma is just an extreme case.
    I'm wondering what your overall understanding of Enneagram is and where this understanding came from. Why is it created through childhood, whereas presumably Jungian type is hereditary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan
    Otherwise, siblings close in age would likely be the same ennea-type far more often.
    This sounds counter-intuitive. If type was hereditary then you'd expect that, but if it's caused by what happens to you, then the correlation would be much lower. So if the correlation is even lower still, where is it coming from?

    --

    Regarding correlations with Jungian type, I am skeptical. Why would internalising shame make one more or less prone to being a Feeler compared to externalising anger or repressing shame or any other iteration? If anything, type correlations could be mistypes due to misunderstanding what introversion etc. means. Type 5 externalises fear -> sees the world as scary and withdraws -> assume they're an introvert. But maybe they're a type 5 extrovert.

    The correlations might be legitimate, but also might not be.

    --

    Also I definitely don't buy that Regina Spektor is an ENTJ @Indigo Rodent. She smiles way too much don't you think?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'm wondering what your overall understanding of Enneagram is and where this understanding came from. Why is it created through childhood,
    My understanding is that it explores core motivations of people and that these motivations are linked to experiences from childhood. Saw it in many articles about ennea-types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    whereas presumably Jungian type is hereditary?
    AFAIK the whole people have the same type as their siblings/parent of the same sex thing still holds up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Also I definitely don't buy that Regina Spektor is an ENTJ @Indigo Rodent. She smiles way too much don't you think?
    Yeah. Was looking at her and having doubts too. She used to be an ENFP before he started correcting mistypes that should have never happened in the first place. I think ENTJ typing is right, though. Regina Spektor is slowed down when emoting. She also has rigid wrists.

    She smiles a lot because she's a people pleaser but look at how SLOW she is. She's doing the shtick that some TJ females do to not bulldoze all the time. The inter-type INTJ female does the same thing. And of course he initially mistyped her as "INFJ" despite that she's slowed down when emoting.

    Contrast it with Emilia Clarke (ENFP) and Willa Fitzgerald (INFP).

    YouTube
    She's quite slow when using Te but she's accelerating when emoting:
    For example she does a bit of emoting at 15:15.

  3. #13
    Noncompliant Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    I firmly believe that it is not. Rather, it shapes how you interpret your childhood and whatever trauma you may have experienced. Otherwise, siblings close in age would likely be the same ennea-type far more often.

    Type 4 is about an attachment to suffering, about finding one's identity in one's perceived deficiencies compared to others. Few 4s will admit it, but their suffering is self-created. The narratives we tell ourselves about our lives and identities become our truth, but that doesn't make it the truth. Just as the 3 doesn't have to become a pillar of status and success to be whole, or the 1 doesn't need to rise to the idealized version of oneself in principle, or the 5 doesn't need to know every little thing before moving out into the world or starting something, the 4 doesn't have something external to them that needs to be incorporated into their identity in order to be as "whole as the others'.

    We are all born inherently whole and are always whole at any point in time, but none of us feel that way and instead seek wholeness through either image, security, or autonomy. 4s seek wholeness through an image of being un-whole.... always missing something. It is in this place that they can confirm their feelings of being "unlike the others", of being misunderstood and missing out on their destiny of being something enviable, of "knowing" what it is that they "don't have", going after it, and yet still feeling deficient when they get it and moving on to some other trait or thing they need to incorporate into their identity.

    4s do want to be thought of as beautifully cracked and chipped, but trauma is certainly not a defining circumstance of them, or any type.
    Not to interrupt but-
    I had not heard this before. It’s very insightful and makes a LOT of sense. It also explains so much of the difference in behavior and perspective between my husband and I. ( 4 and 8 )

    He says he ‘can’t’ because he’s ‘broken’ and makes the same claims of me. I have to purely in spite of it.
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    Not to interrupt but-
    I had not heard this before. It’s very insightful and makes a LOT of sense. It also explains so much of the difference in behavior and perspective between my husband and I. ( 4 and 8 )

    He says he ‘can’t’ because he’s ‘broken’ and makes the same claims of me. I have to purely in spite of it.
    I wasn't aware your husband was a 4. Relationships between average to low health 4s and 8s can be quite fiery, for better or worse.
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  5. #15
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo Rodent View Post
    My understanding is that it explores core motivations of people and that these motivations are linked to experiences from childhood. Saw it in many articles about ennea-types.
    I do think there are aspects of personality that are molded through childhood experiences, and don't have a completely hereditary basis. I don't know what aspects those are though, and the views expressed in articles might not be true. It will be interesting to see once these things can be studied better.

    AFAIK the whole people have the same type as their siblings/parent of the same sex thing still holds up.
    That won't hold up all the time of course. It could be the same type as a grandparent for instance.

    Yeah. Was looking at her and having doubts too. She used to be an ENFP before he started correcting mistypes that should have never happened in the first place. I think ENTJ typing is right, though. Regina Spektor is slowed down when emoting. She also has rigid wrists.

    She smiles a lot because she's a people pleaser but look at how SLOW she is. She's doing the shtick that some TJ females do to not bulldoze all the time. The inter-type INTJ female does the same thing. And of course he initially mistyped her as "INFJ" despite that she's slowed down when emoting.
    What about ENFJ?

    YouTube She seems to have a neutral expression when disengaged from the environment, then she focuses on the other person again with a smile.

  6. #16
    Noncompliant Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Deadpan View Post
    I wasn't aware your husband was a 4. Relationships between average to low health 4s and 8s can be quite fiery, for better or worse.
    Yeah, that is a good way to put it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    That won't hold up all the time of course. It could be the same type as a grandparent for instance.
    It doesn’t hold up. When it is true it’s coincidence. The idea that personality type is hereditary, or even worse, can be seen by physical characteristics is total nonsense.
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”

  7. #17
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    It doesn’t hold up. When it is true it’s coincidence. The idea that personality type is hereditary, or even worse, can be seen by physical characteristics is total nonsense.
    I'm surprised that so many people here aren't noticing the phenomenon that same-sex members of a family tend to be very similar. I guess we'll need to wait for the data, right?

    It seems almost obvious that type will show up in physical characteristics. Are you saying that smiling has nothing to do with the Feeling function? And I suppose that the qualities of the voice have nothing to do with type either. How are we supposed to type people then?

  8. #18

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    I don't like this. Don't like it at all.
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  9. #19
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    lol

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'm surprised that so many people here aren't noticing the phenomenon that same-sex members of a family tend to be very similar. I guess we'll need to wait for the data, right?

    It seems almost obvious that type will show up in physical characteristics. Are you saying that smiling has nothing to do with the Feeling function? And I suppose that the qualities of the voice have nothing to do with type either. How are we supposed to type people then?
    It isn’t phenomena, it isn’t a thing at all.

    There is a big difference between body language a d physical characteristics like the size of ones wrist.
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”

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