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[INFJ] how do you guys go about giving zero F*&#s about what people think of you?

magpie

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What does "being your own person" even mean? You are the person that everyone around you made you to be, unless you decide that you don't have to listen to others and create your own approach to life. If you don't develop your viewpoints when thinking or searching for answers within your consciousness, then how do you do it? By being your own person, do you mean to have an views that are cultivated from organic thoughts?

I agree being your own person isn't being the person everyone around you made you to be. So it's approaching your life "in your own way." You don't have to "create" an approach. It's inherent. And I learn best through experiencing life rather than searching for answers in my head. Your own head isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know. Finding answers through being exposed to experiences will, imo. Including finding answers about yourself based on how you react, what you like/dislike, and how you feel about things in the moment. Not when ruminating about yourself later on.

I guess I don't think you can develop a viewpoint through thought alone. You can't even really start the process that way, because how do you know for sure until you test it?
 

Laxton

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I agree being your own person isn't being the person everyone around you made you to be. So it's approaching your life "in your own way." You don't have to "create" an approach. It's inherent. And I learn best through experiencing life rather than searching for answers in my head. Your own head isn't going to tell you anything you don't already know. Finding answers through being exposed to experiences will, imo. Including finding answers about yourself based on how you react, what you like/dislike, and how you feel about things in the moment. Not when ruminating about yourself later on.

I guess I don't think you can develop a viewpoint through thought alone. You can't even really start the process that way, because how do you know for sure until you test it?

Obviously. It involves both. You develop an idea using your reasoning and act upon that conception. If it doesn't work, try something else. I see introspection as reflecting upon past experiences using your reasoning, and shaping your intuition based on your experiences and logic.

For the most part, it sounds like we agree with each other, but have different ways of expressing our ideas.
 

magpie

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Obviously. It involves both. You develop an idea using your reasoning and act upon that conception. If it doesn't work, try something else. I see introspection as reflecting upon past experiences using your reasoning, and shaping your intuition based on your experiences and logic.

For the most part, it sounds like we agree with each other, but have different ways of expressing our ideas.

Yeah... I was saying what works for me. There doesn't have to be an agreement because it's an individual thing. If you could've agreed that it's individual we wouldn't have had to have this conversation in the first place. I'm not debating you, I am (and was with my initial statement in this thread) talking about myself.
 

magpie

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If you don't put your ideas out there, then how can you confirm or deny them? How can you be sure that they are correct if you do not allow them to be assessed by others?

And for the part you added after my reply, you're using your own life and experiences to confirm or deny. Not the opinions of others.

Maybe this is an Fi vs Fe thing.
 

GIjade

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I quit giving a shit about what anybody thought of me since I graduated high school and my life has become much better for it.
You seem to contradict yourself here:
What does "being your own person" even mean? You are the person that everyone around you made you to be, unless you decide that you don't have to listen to others and create your own approach to life.
If you don't give a shit then how can you believe the following:
If you don't put your ideas out there, then how can you confirm or deny them? How can you be sure that they are correct if you do not allow them to be assessed by others?
You can be sure they are correct by listening to your conscience. If you have to have other people validate your decisions, viewpoints, etc., then you do give a shit.
 

Laxton

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You seem to contradict yourself here:

If you don't give a shit then how can you believe the following:

You can be sure they are correct by listening to your conscience. If you have to have other people validate your decisions, viewpoints, etc., then you do give a shit.

By "care," I mean take them personally and allow them to bother me. I am sensitive to criticism, but not the irrational opinions of others. If someone thinks that I am arrogant/annoying/stupid and doesn't tell me why, I will probably just think that they're a naive idiot and move on with my life.

I don't take anything personally, but I do listen to what people have to say. Constructive criticism, especially criticism against my ideas, is something I seek out since it can be very helpful in improving my life, if that makes sense.

My conscience lacks objectivity, which is why I let people criticize my beliefs and I try to see where they are coming from in their argument.
 

GIjade

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By "care," I mean take them personally and allow them to bother me. I am sensitive to criticism, but not the irrational opinions of others. If someone thinks that I am arrogant/annoying/stupid and doesn't tell me why, I will probably just think that they're a naive idiot and move on with my life.

I don't take anything personally, but I do listen to what people have to say. Constructive criticism, especially criticism against my ideas, is something I seek out since it can be very helpful in improving my life, if that makes sense.

My conscience lacks objectivity, which is why I let people criticize my beliefs and I try to see where they are coming from in their argument.

Yes, this makes perfect sense. :)
 

Coriolis

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But the degree of apathy I do have came mostly hand-in-hand with realizing that most people have (a) a grossly incomplete picture and (b) no effect on me whatsoever aside from the self-reinforcing psych stuff.

Now, (a) is actually pretty apparent, but it's still hard to get it jammed into your brain.

And (b) comes from, among other things, having endured some pretty bad criticisms but coming out of them absolutely unscathed. That particular thing has a way of reinforcing self-confidence, which in turn reinforces being able to take criticism, which in turn gives you a cool little skyward-facing spiral.
These observations are a big part of it. I also came to realize that someone else's opinion of me says at least as much about them as about me. I think when I was younger, I often discounted what others thought of me because I had no respect for them, so their opinion had no value. To use [MENTION=27574]Cowardly[/MENTION]'s terminology, I have always had very strong non-contingent self-esteem.

What does "being your own person" even mean? You are the person that everyone around you made you to be, unless you decide that you don't have to listen to others and create your own approach to life. If you don't develop your viewpoints when thinking or searching for answers within your consciousness, then how do you do it? By being your own person, do you mean to have an views that are cultivated from organic thoughts?
What do you mean by "organic thoughts"?

The highlighted is how it is done. It comes easier to some people than to others.
 

Laxton

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These observations are a big part of it. I also came to realize that someone else's opinion of me says at least as much about them as about me. I think when I was younger, I often discounted what others thought of me because I had no respect for them, so their opinion had no value. To use [MENTION=27574]Cowardly[/MENTION]'s terminology, I have always had very strong non-contingent self-esteem.


What do you mean by "organic thoughts"?

The highlighted is how it is done. It comes easier to some people than to others.

By an "organic thought," I'm referring to an idea or concept that is purely original, and has never been thought of.by another person. It's been said before that any idea is a spin on a previously exiting idea, and I believe that a person's outlook on life works in a similar manner. People often adopt views that are similar to people whom they see as role models or based on past experiences (or using another person's guidance on how to think of a previous event), both of which are created by outside influence to some extent, if that makes sense.
 

Cowardly

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I quit giving a shit about what anybody thought of me since I graduated high school and my life has become much better for it.

By "care," I mean take them personally and allow them to bother me. I am sensitive to criticism, but not the irrational opinions of others.

If someone thinks that I am arrogant/annoying/stupid and doesn't tell me why, I will probably just think that they're a naive idiot and move on with my life.
This is interesting.

This kid I know is somehow confusing to me. He is being raised by SFJs, is a little spoiled, very extroverted, and keeps his emotions visible (when he does emote). At the same time he seems a bit oblivious to other people's feelings and tends to be rude from time to time - and doesn't seem to notice (or care about) that either. His Ne is notorious.
I typed him ENTP.

I found out he had recently been blackmailed by a bully at school. The other kid threatened to call him names, so he paid him to keep his mouth shut. He also gets very angry when his friends criticize him. Though he has no problem doing the same to them.

I think he doesn't want to fit in and goes by the beat of his drum and yet is very affected by what other people think of him.

Can you relate to that on any level? Would you say you were in some ways similar to him when you were a child? Or is that completely alien to you?
 

Laxton

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This is interesting.

This kid I know is somehow confusing to me. He is being raised by SFJs, is a little spoiled, very extroverted, and keeps his emotions visible (when he does emote). At the same time he seems a bit oblivious to other people's feelings and tends to be rude from time to time - and doesn't seem to notice (or care about) that either. His Ne is notorious.
I typed him ENTP.

I found out he had recently been blackmailed by a bully at school. The other kid threatened to call him names, so he paid him to keep his mouth shut. He also gets very angry when his friends criticize him. Though he has no problem doing the same to them.

I think he doesn't want to fit in and goes by the beat of his drum and yet is very affected by what other people think of him.

Can you relate to that on any level? Would you say you were in some ways similar to him when you were a child? Or is that completely alien to you?
I am not extremely extroverted, but I am extroverted and have many friends. However, I do not always let my emotions become visible unless they are very extreme. I don't get angry, but I do ask people why they feel the way that they do towards me if I care about the relationship. Criticism is important to me, and so are my relationships.

I don't know how other people feel, and I am insensitive to it. It's not that I don't care about how people feel, but I honestly do not understand how people feel. When taking part in some activities such as a sport, I often become so immersed in what I do that I often forget to make a conscious effort to understand how I make people around me feel. However, I am tolerant of most people as long as they do not antagonize me without reason. Even then it is very rare that I will take it personally, unless their actions affect me in very drastic ways.

I have been diagnosed with inattentive ADD, if that is relevant.

However, as a child, I could definitely relate to this. I have grown up a lot since then, however. I have my moments of occasional rudeness, but I rarely do this without making up afterwards, with the exception of a few people who I truly do not want to associate myself with. Coincidentally, one of these exceptions happens to be a girl in one of my classes who I have typed as INTJ, which is apparently your type. At one point we were friends, but that relationship has since faded.

I do not understand why she hates me, or even if she does. She once told me that she thought I was smarter than her, and my underachieving habits regarding my responsibilities irritated her (I'm paraphrasing, but this is a combination of things that she has said to me). She is very cold and passive-agressive towards me, and I have argued with her numerous times during class. Occasionally she is friendly towards me, but I would classify it as being civil. I don't really have the time or patience to repair this relationship, because I honestly don't know how. I can read the vast majority of people well, but understanding the thought processes and feelings of someone that is around my intellectual level is a challenge that is beyond me. To be honest, the thought of doing it scares me, because I have no idea what I would be getting myself into and how deep her feelings of animosity towards me goes.

This is a rare exception, however, and I only mentioned it to you because I believe her to be your type. I also brought it up because I'm hoping that you could give me some insight and advice on how to repair this relationship, if possible.

To answer your question, I might appear to be this way to some people. However, I do make an effort to fit in and am a part of many different social circles. I don't have a problem fitting in, but sometimes I can be very rude and hostile. There are also a good number of people who can barely stand me, but a much greater proportion of people who like me and enjoy my company.

As a child, I kept a small circle of close friends, and spent much of my time antagonizing everybody else and they didn't like me for it. I would consider myself to be very unpopular as a child, but I am very different now. I have calmed down since then and try my best to keep from being a burden to those around me.
 
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Norrsken

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how do you become your own person? be the rugged individualist you guys are? share your wisdom infjs!

By realizing that you can't always please everybody at the same time, and that this is perfectly okay. The people who you should give a damn, are the ones who give a damn about you and your personal happiness.
 

Cowardly

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I am not extremely extroverted, but I am extroverted and have many friends. However, I do not always let my emotions become visible unless they are very extreme. I don't get angry, but I do ask people why they feel the way that they do towards me if I care about the relationship. Criticism is important to me, and so are my relationships.

I don't know how other people feel, and I am insensitive to it. It's not that I don't care about how people feel, but I honestly do not understand how people feel. When taking part in some activities such as a sport, I often become so immersed in what I do that I often forget to make a conscious effort to understand how I make people around me feel. However, I am tolerant of most people as long as they do not antagonize me without reason. Even then it is very rare that I will take it personally, unless their actions affect me in very drastic ways.

I have been diagnosed with inattentive ADD, if that is relevant.

However, as a child, I could definitely relate to this. I have grown up a lot since then, however. I have my moments of occasional rudeness, but I rarely do this without making up afterwards, with the exception of a few people who I truly do not want to associate myself with.

To answer your question, I might appear to be this way to some people. However, I do make an effort to fit in and am a part of many different social circles. I don't have a problem fitting in, but sometimes I can be very rude and hostile. There are also a good number of people who can barely stand me, but a much greater proportion of people who like me and enjoy my company.

As a child, I kept a small circle of close friends, and spent much of my time antagonizing everybody else and they didn't like me for it. I would consider myself to be very unpopular as a child, but I am very different now. I have calmed down since then and try my best to keep from being a burden to those around me.
This follows. Thank you.

Coincidentally, one of these exceptions happens to be a girl in one of my classes who I have typed as INTJ, which is apparently your type. At one point we were friends, but that relationship has since faded.

I do not understand why she hates me, or even if she does. She once told me that she thought I was smarter than her, and my underachieving habits regarding my responsibilities irritated her (I'm paraphrasing, but this is a combination of things that she has said to me). She is very cold and passive-agressive towards me, and I have argued with her numerous times during class. Occasionally she is friendly towards me, but I would classify it as being civil. I don't really have the time or patience to repair this relationship, because I honestly don't know how. I can read the vast majority of people well, but understanding the thought processes and feelings of someone that is around my intellectual level is a challenge that is beyond me. To be honest, the thought of doing it scares me, because I have no idea what I would be getting myself into and how deep her feelings of animosity towards me goes.
I can't imagine. I wouldn't cut anyone from my life if I thought they were underachievers, or that they weren't living up to their potential. I value personal freedom.

I do cut people from my life. Often for reasons such as not having any affinity at all, or because they support something I consider absolutely wrong and refuse to listen, or because I can't see our relationship going any further than that. I don't like drama, and would rather keep it clean and civil. I'm not passive-aggressive afterwards. In short, I only distance myself.

I don't like that, though. I don't believe it's a good practice. I think some of these people started to think that I hated them - comprehensible, of course.

This is a rare exception, however, and I only mentioned it to you because I believe her to be your type. I also brought it up because I'm hoping that you could give me some insight and advice on how to repair this relationship, if possible.
I would put the cards on the table.

She sounds like an Enneatype One, for what it's worth.
 

Kho

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I don't know if this is an INFJ thing. All types have their own ways of dealing with shared life issues.
I'm an INXP and I was constantly hurt and hindered by how others saw me until I came to the very liberating realisation that I can choose not to care.

Have a look at this website: GeoHive - Current World Population

There are 233 national governments in the world, most of which you will never set foot in before you die.
7,420,355,539 people were alive today. The number will rise by several million tomorrow.
But several million will have died tomorrow, without my ever having met them either.

Most of these people don't know me, or you, and neither you or I know most of them.
Some of them would like me if they knew me, and some of them wouldn't.

But I haven't met most of them, and any hypotheticals mean nothing to me.
It shouldn't be any different with the people that I have encountered in this lifetime.
 

Kho

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This is in strictly in response to the OP question of "how to give zero fcks about what people think about you." Apologies in advance if I missed anything in the body of the thread.
 

Nico_D

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One way how this is achieved - if not only by age - is that you stop wanting external validation from other people. Especially acceptance and admiration and try to find those things from within instead.
 
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