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[ENFJ] Advice: INFP and ENFJ relationship conflict

Lia_kat

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Hello, all. I'm new to the site but have been incognito for a while. I finally made an account, haha. So many interesting threads/topics/people on here. Anyway,

My ENFJ husband and I have been together for about 8 years. I'm 26 and he's 34. He's my soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being. The last few years though we have been arguing more frequently. I brought a lot of baggage to our relationship from past family problems and relationships and he has been incredibly supportive and understanding of course, but it seems that he has lost his patience with me? (Although he claims that he has not because "he's still here"). I can be very distant and withdrawn in general but at times he makes passive-aggresive comments (or makes it into a joke because he has a great sense of humor in general and our relationship has thrived on that) about ignoring him or not being tender like other women with their husbands. This has hurt me because I love him so much and I know I show it in my own way. I know I can be argumentative and even mean. He can be a control-freak and excessively independent to the point where I feel I don't really have to do anything (when I try he does not let me) and then I, being a very laidback person in general, retreat and let him do everything. I'm used to it, but then I feel like he punishes me for it. He wants me to have this drive and motivation for certain things that I just don't have.

He's a great teacher and mentor to me as well but when we get into arguments, it tends to end up with me crying my eyes out (out of frustation from feeling misunderstood and judged) and him just being silent and stoic (although in his defense he often lets go of his pride and comes towards me because he hates arguing) or I have anxiety attacks. His way of explaning his feelings is so superior to mine --- at least verbally -- and I just feel so small when I have so much in my mind and heart but cannot say the right things or it just comes out like something so nonsensical.

I just don't know how to get inside his head or make him understand what I am feeling without being an emotional wreck. Any advice from other ENFJs? Or anyone? Thank you.
 

Tilt

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How about writing him a heart-felt letter telling him your thoughts and feelings?

Also, please don't put him on a pedestal.. It's definitely a two-way street for the miscommunication.
 

Lia_kat

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How about writing him a heart-felt letter telling him your thoughts and feelings?

Also, please don't put him on a pedestal.. It's definitely a two-way street for the miscommunication.

I've not written him a letter but have expressed myself in a similar way through e-mail various times. It does not always work. Depending on the argument we've had, he's either very morose or has the "I know I'm right" attitude. Other times he's appreciated it, showed affection, told me the things he understood, but then proceeded to tell me (in a kind way) how I can improve and stop making excuses for myself. I don't think I'm putting him on a pedestal. He does express himself verbally better than me and I also don't want people to think he's an asshole because he's far from it.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Hello, all. I'm new to the site but have been incognito for a while. I finally made an account, haha. So many interesting threads/topics/people on here. Anyway,
I am a ENFJ married to a ISFP. I hope I can help.

My ENFJ husband and I have been together for about 8 years. I'm 26 and he's 34. He's my soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being. The last few years though we have been arguing more frequently. I brought a lot of baggage to our relationship from past family problems and relationships and he has been incredibly supportive and understanding of course, but it seems that he has lost his patience with me? (Although he claims that he has not because "he's still here").
Yes. He is still there. He would be gone (after sufficient suffering) otherwise.

He still sees you as his love and partner and if he didn't, he would be gone.

I can be very distant and withdrawn in general but at times he makes passive-aggresive comments (or makes it into a joke because he has a great sense of humor in general and our relationship has thrived on that) about ignoring him or not being tender like other women with their husbands.

Hmmm, story of my life. He needs physical and verbal affection. It is not an option. It hurts him when you are cold and distant. All that inner pain you feel, all that angst, is pushed at him, no matter your desire.

He needs to be built up like he builds you up, but he won't ask.

Ignoring, withdrawing, etc. is torture to him. He isn't just a NFJ, he is a Fe dom. It is his driving force.

You misinterpret his statements as passive aggressive. He is explicitly expressing his needs.

This has hurt me because I love him so much and I know I show it in my own way.
You can by embracing Fi and loving him. Give him your heart and presence.

I know I can be argumentative and even mean.
Inferior Te is very nasty.

He can be a control-freak and excessively independent to the point where I feel I don't really have to do anything (when I try he does not let me) and then I, being a very laidback person in general, retreat and let him do everything. I'm used to it, but then I feel like he punishes me for it. He wants me to have this drive and motivation for certain things that I just don't have.
He does need some growth here. He isn't as independent as you think. Or the control freak, really. Fe can feel pushy without intending to be, which offends Fi. In reverse, he is highly influenced by your emotions, likely feeling controlled by you many times what you feel from him.

Fe is used to being pushed and pulled by others. Fi believes it is an island, so is offended by the Fe direct connection.

But your would be Fi island is shouting at him, chaining him, compelling him, without you understanding what you do to him.

He's a great teacher and mentor to me as well but when we get into arguments, it tends to end up with me crying my eyes out (out of frustation from feeling misunderstood and judged) and him just being silent and stoic (although in his defense he often lets go of his pride and comes towards me because he hates arguing) or I have anxiety attacks. His way of explaning his feelings is so superior to mine --- at least verbally -- and I just feel so small when I have so much in my mind and heart but cannot say the right things or it just comes out like something so nonsensical.
Fi struggles to express those deep feelings, using the poor tool of Te to express them. Have you tried writing it all out, every last drip you can? If you can, then you avoid the confrontation issues.

Fe sounds confident and in control and powerful and correct. He isn't. He sounds like I was a few years ago, in complete denial.

What was his childhood like? Was he validated and supported in his feelings? Was there a lot of conflict? Did he have loving and kind parents?

I just don't know how to get inside his head or make him understand what I am feeling without being an emotional wreck. Any advice from other ENFJs? Or anyone? Thank you.

ENFJs use Fe and Se to interact with the outside world. So, sex is a good start. A really good start, because he can love you and feel you and connect through his most grounded nature.

I have been married to my wife for 20 years. At first, we had great communication, then she gradually started withdrawing and we stopped having sex often. If not for the vow I had made to not copy my parents and get divorced, I would have left her 15 years ago.

The last 10 years have been bad, really bad. We both had some serious unresolved childhood issues. It was our issues that pulled us together, the pain and need acting like a magnet. Since you mentioned prior issues, I suspect he has some as well.

Growth in the relationship comes from individual growth. You are at the age for a quarter life crisis, with your frontal lobe fully developed.

I would suggest you work really hard to have a physical grounding to your relationship, with lots of verbal affirmation of him. But he needs to accept your negative emotions and learn to handle them better as well.

Withdrawing is the worst thing you could do, but you can say, "I love you and I need some alone time. Can we talk more Tuesday?"

He may not understand how you are wired. Help him learn.

You say you need him out of his head, but it seems you might be as well. Exercise, outdoor activities, sex, etc. are great for getting NFs out of their head.....
 

Lia_kat

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SearchingforPeace, your post was insightful and so helpful, thank you. It's great to see things from another ENFJ's perspective. He definitely craves a lot of verbal/physical affection. I have to be more understanding of this. I am affectionate with him but not as much as I should be.

He also has unresolved childhood issues I think. He's had a litany of problems with his parents to the point where he has become increasingly distant with them. There was a time where he did not speak or see his family for years. His mother is very immature, cold, and self-absorbed. I'm sure this has affected him greatly. I just wish he wasn't so dismissive (almost condescending) of the things I say when we are arguing. Or even throughout the day. It gets me so defensive because I feel like I am being attacked (inferior Te?). At the same time, I think.. Is it me? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what he is saying / his intentions? I don't know. That's usually what he tells me... Or that he can't express what he feels without me getting emotional.
 

SearchingforPeace

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SearchingforPeace, your post was insightful and so helpful, thank you. It's great to see things from another ENFJ's perspective. He definitely craves a lot of verbal/physical affection. I have to be more understanding of this. I am affectionate with him but not as much as I should be.
I am glad I could be of help. I was pretty clueless a year ago and learned a lot. It can be very hard for ENFJs to be really willing to grow and learn internally. We think we know ourselves better than we do, so we err greatly. And we think we know others better than we do (because we do see so much, but perhaps we miss crucial pieces of the whole)

Physical affection (a light touch as you walk by, a kiss out of nowhere, a random hand holding, a hug at random) grounds him (and you). Verbal expressions are very important.

You need to remove your own doubt of his love and remove his doubt of your love. I was taught a technique here called eyeloving: just looking at your partner with love for them. It impacts both the giver and receiver. I do it a lot....

He also has unresolved childhood issues I think. He's had a litany of problems with his parents to the point where he has become increasingly distant with them. There was a time where he did not speak or see his family for years. His mother is very immature, cold, and self-absorbed. I'm sure this has affected him greatly.
Wow. This is a big thing. And familiar.

My mother for some unexplained reason didn't care about me much from birth. She didn't play with me. I got lost a lot. She wasn't involved in my life, though she was a stay at home mom. I knew I couldn't rely on her to protect me from abusive brother by the time I was 6. I felt I could never ask for help, so I never did.

I grew up free and independent but emotionally neglected and in a lot of pain. I ended up trying to suppress emotions (a common ENFJ issue I have read, as we hide from our shadow Fi). I ignored and tried to hide from my feelings for 30+ years

My mom largely ignored me and continues to this day. She doesn't talk to me and has no desire to know of my children. It has created huge abandonment and attachment issues for me.

A series of events woke me up from my denial. I had to process 30+ years of pain all at once. The entire process was very hard, but what was needed to break my ego construct.

I am not saying he has issues like me, but I wouldn't be surprised. Deep inside he is a scared little boy who was abandoned and neglected, I suspect. Myself, I come off as super capable and confident, but when I get in touch with my feelings inside, I look in the mirror and literally see my own neglected child.....

I just wish he wasn't so dismissive (almost condescending) of the things I say when we are arguing. Or even throughout the day. It gets me so defensive because I feel like I am being attacked (inferior Te?). At the same time, I think.. Is it me? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what he is saying / his intentions? I don't know. That's usually what he tells me... Or that he can't express what he feels without me getting emotional.

I suspect I might come off as dismissive and condescending at times to people, especially my wife. I try not to now, but I don't know if I used to be so careful.

Fe and Fi doms don't talk the same way, at all. Fe is bold and authoritative and certain. Fi talks through inferior Te, so your words are not really getting to what you feel.

My wife and i have huge communication issues. When she is upset, she says some really horrible things. She also uses reasonable sounding words (Te) to express things not based in reason. I only realized that recently.

When we had an argument, I would take her position and logically destroy it if I disagreed. After all, I thought she had reasoning behind it. I didn't realize it was a value judgment, with reasoning she can't explain. She would get so upset when I evaluated her reasoning and found it wanting.

So, now that I realize it isn't the words she is saying, but the values she is expressing, I am much more delicate with her. I don't just logically destroy her arguments and run over her Fi. I call it putting on the Fi filter.

Te sounds very harsh in my ears. And controlling. But looking at her feelings takes away the harshness her words have.

If he doesn't have this yet, then he is struggling with your words and feelings.

Getting emotional is OK. It would be best if you both would be comfortable doing so. Part of what I have done is try to create a safe spot for my wife to express her feelings. She can't handle most of mine. I can't either, so it isn't bad of her. But in a healthy relationship, both parties should be able to express their emotions safely.

I had to learn to accept my wife's emotions and my own. It has been hard.

I finally realized that I didn't need to talk so much with her on some issues. Sometimes it is better just to love and move on.

8 months ago I was sure I would leave my wife. 7 months ago I was positive it was 99% chance of divorce. Today, we are stronger than we have been in 15 years. We still can't talk about major issues yet, but it is much much better.

I also realized my abandonment and neglect issues are my issues and not her fault. That I have triggers for certain things is on me, not her. By owning it, I have helped our relationship. I no longer freak out when I feel she had withdrawn....

Anyway, the best thing you can do is get emotionally healthy yourself. It will rub off on him.....
 

Poki

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I am glad I could be of help. I was pretty clueless a year ago and learned a lot. It can be very hard for ENFJs to be really willing to grow and learn internally. We think we know ourselves better than we do, so we err greatly. And we think we know others better than we do (because we do see so much, but perhaps we miss crucial pieces of the whole)

Physical affection (a light touch as you walk by, a kiss out of nowhere, a random hand holding, a hug at random) grounds him (and you). Verbal expressions are very important.

You need to remove your own doubt of his love and remove his doubt of your love. I was taught a technique here called eyeloving: just looking at your partner with love for them. It impacts both the giver and receiver. I do it a lot....


Wow. This is a big thing. And familiar.

My mother for some unexplained reason didn't care about me much from birth. She didn't play with me. I got lost a lot. She wasn't involved in my life, though she was a stay at home mom. I knew I couldn't rely on her to protect me from abusive brother by the time I was 6. I felt I could never ask for help, so I never did.

I grew up free and independent but emotionally neglected and in a lot of pain. I ended up trying to suppress emotions (a common ENFJ issue I have read, as we hide from our shadow Fi). I ignored and tried to hide from my feelings for 30+ years

My mom largely ignored me and continues to this day. She doesn't talk to me and has no desire to know of my children. It has created huge abandonment and attachment issues for me.

A series of events woke me up from my denial. I had to process 30+ years of pain all at once. The entire process was very hard, but what was needed to break my ego construct.

I am not saying he has issues like me, but I wouldn't be surprised. Deep inside he is a scared little boy who was abandoned and neglected, I suspect. Myself, I come off as super capable and confident, but when I get in touch with my feelings inside, I look in the mirror and literally see my own neglected child.....



I suspect I might come off as dismissive and condescending at times to people, especially my wife. I try not to now, but I don't know if I used to be so careful.

Fe and Fi doms don't talk the same way, at all. Fe is bold and authoritative and certain. Fi talks through inferior Te, so your words are not really getting to what you feel.

My wife and i have huge communication issues. When she is upset, she says some really horrible things. She also uses reasonable sounding words (Te) to express things not based in reason. I only realized that recently.

When we had an argument, I would take her position and logically destroy it if I disagreed. After all, I thought she had reasoning behind it. I didn't realize it was a value judgment, with reasoning she can't explain. She would get so upset when I evaluated her reasoning and found it wanting.

So, now that I realize it isn't the words she is saying, but the values she is expressing, I am much more delicate with her. I don't just logically destroy her arguments and run over her Fi. I call it putting on the Fi filter.

Te sounds very harsh in my ears. And controlling. But looking at her feelings takes away the harshness her words have.

If he doesn't have this yet, then he is struggling with your words and feelings.

Getting emotional is OK. It would be best if you both would be comfortable doing so. Part of what I have done is try to create a safe spot for my wife to express her feelings. She can't handle most of mine. I can't either, so it isn't bad of her. But in a healthy relationship, both parties should be able to express their emotions safely.

I had to learn to accept my wife's emotions and my own. It has been hard.

I finally realized that I didn't need to talk so much with her on some issues. Sometimes it is better just to love and move on.

8 months ago I was sure I would leave my wife. 7 months ago I was positive it was 99% chance of divorce. Today, we are stronger than we have been in 15 years. We still can't talk about major issues yet, but it is much much better.

I also realized my abandonment and neglect issues are my issues and not her fault. That I have triggers for certain things is on me, not her. By owning it, I have helped our relationship. I no longer freak out when I feel she had withdrawn....

Anyway, the best thing you can do is get emotionally healthy yourself. It will rub off on him.....

My ex had similiar mom issues, she ended up the same way with her son. Everyone kept telling her she needs to slow down and put him first. Us separating actually helped alot to get her to open her eyes and realize, but she still has a LONG way to go.

Incase OP is not aware, my ex is ENFJ.
 

Kheledon

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Superb thread. [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] has got this covered, I think, so I'll just watch and learn. Thanks!

:happy0065:
 

Lia_kat

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Physical affection (a light touch as you walk by, a kiss out of nowhere, a random hand holding, a hug at random) grounds him (and you). Verbal expressions are very important.

Update: I've been doing this a lot more, I see how much he enjoys it and it has helped immensely.

When we had an argument, I would take her position and logically destroy it if I disagreed. After all, I thought she had reasoning behind it. I didn't realize it was a value judgment, with reasoning she can't explain. She would get so upset when I evaluated her reasoning and found it wanting.

Him in a nutshell, and what starts a lot of our arguments..But we've talked a lot since I last posted on this thread, I also introduced him to mbti and he finds it very interesting. He's been reading about our types and understanding my functions (woot!). And.. there's progress:
Yesterday I was upset because of problems with my mom so I was quick with my attitude (which I'm trying really hard to work on) and usually he tears me apart with his words/logic but he said "I know you're not angry at me. You miss your grandmother (she passed away last month/ we were extremely close) and are upset because of your mom's behavior towards you. I understand and I love you."
I was like... :happy2::happy2: lol
It was amazing.
 

SearchingforPeace

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Update: I've been doing this a lot more, I see how much he enjoys it and it has helped immensely.



Him in a nutshell, and what starts a lot of our arguments..But we've talked a lot since I last posted on this thread, I also introduced him to mbti and he finds it very interesting. He's been reading about our types and understanding my functions (woot!). And.. there's progress:
Yesterday I was upset because of problems with my mom so I was quick with my attitude (which I'm trying really hard to work on) and usually he tears me apart with his words/logic but he said "I know you're not angry at me. You miss your grandmother (she passed away last month/ we were extremely close) and are upset because of your mom's behavior towards you. I understand and I love you."
I was like... :happy2::happy2: lol
It was amazing.

It gave me chills reading this. I am so happy for you. :)
 

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As expressive and caring as enfjs are, I think they find it scary to relinquish control of the details around them in their physical surroundings (particularly worse when they can't resolve emotional stuff) and they also find it hard to express their needs. They may resist care, yet crave it. They are very capable and it's easy to assume they're bulletproof. They also sound much more sure than they always feel. My mom is amazing but even when presented with overwhelmibg evidence that she is wrong, she's unlikely to overtly acknowledge it, and she often has a hard time allowing the people around her to do even routine tasks without advice or correction, which feels like she thinks I'm incapable or inept. I've realized since that it is not meant that way. She very much takes into account how people react or what they say even if she doesn't show it at the time. She thrives on appreciation and a bit of affection. Unresolved emotional stuff is really taxing on her and after many years of my istj dad being emotionally withdrawn, shell say stuff that sounds unkind, but really comes out of hurt and despair at his lack of communication and seeming investment. I think shes a pretty healthy enfj. What you describe with both your and your husband's childhood issues accounts would exacerbate those tendencies. I'm glad things are improving. Enfjs will move mountains and sacrifice everything as long as they still have hope.
 

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Every relationship has a rough patch. I remember mines and it makes me cringe of how cruel I can sometimes be against my partner back then. Terrible stuff, but that's how we grow from it. The hardest lesson to learn in love is to learn how to be emotionally vulnerable whenever we feel hurt or scared. We retreat, ignore, or otherwise push our partners away because we are innately fearful of what'll happen if we open ourselves up all the way. What if they leave us? What if they die? In the end, a life spent fearing everything is no longer a life, but a prison. Strive to be vulnerable and let him enjoy the softer parts of you, even if it feels awkward or scary.

Love is trust.
 

PotatoPeeler68

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Okay, what you need to do is (this will blow your mind):
Talk to him! He's not a mind reader (something my ENFJ friend told me) and needs to know
of anything that troubles you. You need this trust.
Also, if you are afraid to talk to him because you might ruin your relationship, well, it's better
than keeping silent! He will most likely be impressed and understanding when you talk to him,
and try his best to control his temper and make you happy, if he cares about you.

He might not even think of them as arguments, and needs that knowledge.:hug:
 

ZNP-TBA

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How about writing him a heart-felt letter telling him your thoughts and feelings?

Also, please don't put him on a pedestal.. It's definitely a two-way street for the miscommunication.

Yes, I was thinking the letter idea too. Brilliant.
 

ZNP-TBA

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Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be offensive but I respond to these issues as more of a straight shooter so not a lot of fluff. Skip if you find it non-productive.

My ENFJ husband and I have been together for about 8 years. I'm 26 and he's 34. He's my soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being. The last few years though we have been arguing more frequently. I brought a lot of baggage to our relationship from past family problems and relationships and he has been incredibly supportive and understanding

If you don't mind being asked, what kind of baggage? From the way you make his acceptance of you sound it seems like most guys wouldn't have got with you because of said baggage the way he did. Is that fair to conclude?

How long were you actually married? Did you live together before or after marriage or engagement?

of course, but it seems that he has lost his patience with me? (Although he claims that he has not because "he's still here"). I can be very distant and withdrawn in general but at times he makes passive-aggresive comments (or makes it into a joke because he has a great sense of humor in general and our relationship has thrived on that) about ignoring him or not being tender like other women with their husbands.

What were you testing his patience on? Why does it sound like his patience is hanging on a thread? When someone says "I'm still here" that comes off as basically saying " I still tolerate you but I'm feeling very tested," which doesn't sound exactly like a happy situation... The passive aggressiveness and the deflection with jokes basically signifies that he feels that his can't directly communicate with you. How long has this been going on?

I know I can be argumentative and even mean.

Can you elaborate more?

He can be a control-freak and excessively independent to the point where I feel I don't really have to do anything (when I try he does not let me) and then I, being a very laidback person in general, retreat and let him do everything. I'm used to it, but then I feel like he punishes me for it. He wants me to have this drive and motivation for certain things that I just don't have.

Was this always the case in your 8 year long relationship or did something drastically change along the way?

He's a great teacher and mentor to me as well but when we get into arguments, it tends to end up with me crying my eyes out (out of frustation from feeling misunderstood and judged) and him just being silent and stoic (although in his defense he often lets go of his pride and comes towards me because he hates arguing) or I have anxiety attacks. His way of explaning his feelings is so superior to mine --- at least verbally -- and I just feel so small when I have so much in my mind and heart but cannot say the right things or it just comes out like something so nonsensical.

Like [MENTION=26163]Protege[/MENTION] suggested, writing a letter could be an option. Although, I'm not sure what the effect of that would be since, based on your description here, he's already used to shutting you down. If you're speaking from the heart it isn't nonsensical but it seems like your husband makes you almost afraid to completely express yourself (hence the shutting down or outbursts of anger you get) which is probably why you're looking for a way to reach him by asking people on the forums here.

In any case the problems you guys are having sounds antithetical to "He's my soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being." This might be idealism superimposed on the reality of the rest of your post.

I just don't know how to get inside his head or make him understand what I am feeling without being an emotional wreck. Any advice from other ENFJs? Or anyone? Thank you.

I'm not an ENFJ but I can think of a couple potentially relevant questions to ask (yourself).

Why do you think you'll get the best answer to understanding your husband who you been with for 8 years on a forum full of strangers? Is the communication with your husband so broken down that trying to understand him directly doesn't seem like an option? If that's the case, I recommend talk therapy/marriage counseling.

Has your relationship always been like this where communication under stress is really bad? If not, when did it start? Ever thought about the potential reasons why?

Anyway, good luck and welcome :D
 

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Yes. He is still there. He would be gone (after sufficient suffering) otherwise.

He still sees you as his love and partner and if he didn't, he would be gone.

Couldn't it just be a situation of co-dependence as well? They've been together 8 years, 8 years is scary and extremely uncomfortable for some people to let go. It would that some people would rather live with the problems/misery than face the challenge of their entire lives being changed.


You misinterpret his statements as passive aggressive. He is explicitly expressing his needs.

I'm no ENFJ but I sort of agree. I think its more of a situation of maybe he wants to express his needs but he doesn't know how to convey that without passive aggressive misdirection or being over-bearing (hence her 'control freak' description of her husband).


He does need some growth here. He isn't as independent as you think. Or the control freak, really. Fe can feel pushy without intending to be, which offends Fi. In reverse, he is highly influenced by your emotions, likely feeling controlled by you many times what you feel from him.

Or it could be something really causing him to think he needs to take control (because maybe he sees her as not contributing sufficiently, remember one of the comparisons made were to other 'tender' wives to their husbands). A good way to 'test' this in real time is to recognize if a heavy pattern has developed ( or is this a one off) and was the pattern always there or did it start at some later point in the relationship?

If the pattern started later then it means he actively choses to become a control freak because there exists a state in his life with her where he was not. And if he was always a control freak, and she sees it as a problem now, why did she marry him? :thinking:


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SearchingforPeace

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Couldn't it just be a situation of co-dependence as well? They've been together 8 years, 8 years is scary and extremely uncomfortable for some people to let go. It would that some people would rather live with the problems/misery than face the challenge of their entire lives being changed.

By 8 years in, most marriages meet a crisis. Infatuation phase is over. People change. Many will break up at that point.

As to codependency, I don't see that here in any large measure. Being codependent myself and struggling to modify the relationship somewhat successfully (a very painful process), I just don't see the same language and patterns, at least in an unhealthy manner. Most relationships fall somewhere on the codependency scale.

A full codependent relationship requires a doormat (-5 on the scale) and a narcissist/mentally disturbed person (+5). They balance, creating a stable relationship.

Most healthy relationships have one person that gives more (-1 or -2) and one person that takes more (+1 or +2), but they usually balance.

I feel the OP can make her marriage work. Her husband and her can grow and develop very successfully, I suspect. It will not be too easy, but it is very doable.

I'm no ENFJ but I sort of agree. I think its more of a situation of maybe he wants to express his needs but he doesn't know how to convey that without passive aggressive misdirection or being over-bearing (hence her 'control freak' description of her husband).

And again, I suspect he sees her as controlling and manipulative...and they might be both right and both wrong. Communication takes effort.....and really needs self-awareness.

Or it could be something really causing him to think he needs to take control (because maybe he sees her as not contributing sufficiently, remember one of the comparisons made were to other 'tender' wives to their husbands). A good way to 'test' this in real time is to recognize if a heavy pattern has developed ( or is this a one off) and was the pattern always there or did it start at some later point in the relationship?

If the pattern started later then it means he actively choses to become a control freak because there exists a state in his life with her where he was not. And if he was always a control freak, and she sees it as a problem now, why did she marry him? :thinking:
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She loves him. Life is confusing, often. Relationships are messy.
 

ZNP-TBA

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By 8 years in, most marriages meet a crisis. Infatuation phase is over. People change. Many will break up at that point.

I didn't read what age she was when she got married but if they've been effectively married (i.e. together seriously) for the past 8 years then that means she was 18 when it all started. According to this statistic she has a moderately high risk (not extremely high) of divorce.

A full codependent relationship requires a doormat (-5 on the scale) and a narcissist/mentally disturbed person (+5). They balance, creating a stable relationship.

Is there data to support two such extremes create stable relationships?


I feel the OP can make her marriage work. Her husband and her can grow and develop very successfully, I suspect. It will not be too easy, but it is very doable.

I agree. I think most people can make their marriages work so long as the work is going to be put in by both parties. Part of making the marriage work is sort of like troubleshooting the root cause of the problems. Sometimes the discovery of those root causes are extremely uncomfortable but probably the worst thing to do is ignore them. I'm not saying that's what the OP is doing but just a general statement.

And again, I suspect he sees her as controlling and manipulative...and they might be both right and both wrong. Communication takes effort.....and really needs self-awareness.

Yes, recognizing manipulation is one thing but understanding why it occurs is where the real challenge is. It seems like their communication is poor even after 8 years of knowing each other so I would think working on the coms is priority.



She loves him. Life is confusing, often. Relationships are messy.

I'm sure she feels she loves him and its 100% authentic love but it's possible she loves an idealized version of him. She opened by saying he was her soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being but then when getting to the crux of the matter in the post it turns out he's a passive aggressive control freak which doesn't quite add up. I don't understand the situation completely, obviously, but this looks like a curious inconsistency to me unless she equivocates a passive aggressive control freak with a caring, kind, and brilliant soulmate , in which case, I don't know. :shrug:
 

ZNP-TBA

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Update: I've been doing this a lot more, I see how much he enjoys it and it has helped immensely.



Him in a nutshell, and what starts a lot of our arguments..But we've talked a lot since I last posted on this thread, I also introduced him to mbti and he finds it very interesting. He's been reading about our types and understanding my functions (woot!). And.. there's progress:
Yesterday I was upset because of problems with my mom so I was quick with my attitude (which I'm trying really hard to work on) and usually he tears me apart with his words/logic but he said "I know you're not angry at me. You miss your grandmother (she passed away last month/ we were extremely close) and are upset because of your mom's behavior towards you. I understand and I love you."
I was like... :happy2::happy2: lol
It was amazing.

Sounds like terrific progress. How is it that after 8 years of being together you're amazed at such a compassionate expression by him? Amazed implies unexpected and out of the norm. Was he never really like this before? But, hats off to you guys for taking a step forward. :D
 

ZNP-TBA

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He also has unresolved childhood issues I think. He's had a litany of problems with his parents to the point where he has become increasingly distant with them. There was a time where he did not speak or see his family for years. His mother is very immature, cold, and self-absorbed. I'm sure this has affected him greatly. I just wish he wasn't so dismissive (almost condescending) of the things I say when we are arguing.

And now we get into the background. Thanks for sharing this. I read this and it seems to tell me a lot about his mentality. I wonder if his mother was so dismissive/condescending of him in his younger years or if this is how the dynamic was between his parents? It's sad but very much true that children with unresolved issues usually end up being some photocopy of their parents. Why did he detach from his family for so long? Was he in a long term relationship before he met you?

What was your relationship with your father like?

PS: If its too personal feel free to just discard the questions. :)
 
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