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[ENFJ] Advice: INFP and ENFJ relationship conflict

SearchingforPeace

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Is there data to support two such extremes create stable relationships?

Yes, I read it in a book by a psychotherapist specializing in codependency, The Human Magnet Syndrome or some such topic.

His solution to codependency is for the codependent person to change, thereby creating an imbalance in the relationship. The other person must adapt or the relationship will fail.

His findings are that codependents and narcissists come from the same source, emotionally neglectful parents. The children develop a lack of self-love. The cure for codependency is self-love.....

In my case, the 4 children in my family had the NFJs become codependents and the ENPs become narcissists...

I agree. I think most people can make their marriages work so long as the work is going to be put in by both parties. Part of making the marriage work is sort of like troubleshooting the root cause of the problems. Sometimes the discovery of those root causes are extremely uncomfortable but probably the worst thing to do is ignore them. I'm not saying that's what the OP is doing but just a general statement.

Yes, recognizing manipulation is one thing but understanding why it occurs is where the real challenge is. It seems like their communication is poor even after 8 years of knowing each other so I would think working on the coms is priority.

I thought my wife and I had great communication. The problem is talking about the serious stuff isn't the same as the fluff.

I can barely talk to my wife about relationship issues. We started with such an intensity that we didn't need to work at things. People expressed amazement at that closeness of our relationship. The codependent is pulled to a very unhealthy person like the magnet. And it is easy to mistake the intensity for love.

I'm sure she feels she loves him and its 100% authentic love but it's possible she loves an idealized version of him. She opened by saying he was her soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being but then when getting to the crux of the matter in the post it turns out he's a passive aggressive control freak which doesn't quite add up. I don't understand the situation completely, obviously, but this looks like a curious inconsistency to me unless she. equivocates a passive aggressive control freak with a caring, kind, and brilliant soulmate , in which case, I don't know. :shrug:

It just takes time, vulnerability, and intent. But it isn't easy. We all fall for an idealized version of the other person. ...
 
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Idealisation is a trap to me. I don't idealise people but most people I hear to be "in love with X" have a totally different image ! Sometimes it is very scary :shock:

It is to me the contrary of realism.

I always encourage women to feel free to express their boredom, fears and feelings. If the man denies them all, he does not deserve you, you must then let him drop. I'm not that tolerant. :dry:

You'll probably not like my advice, but that is the way I think.

If you wanna struggle for your relationship, I'd go for a therapist who will play the part of the referee for a while to teach both of you new methods to communicate efficiently.

Whatever your choice may be, I agree 100 per cent with you : communication problems can't last long. It is very risky for one/both partner(s) if they do so.
 

ZNP-TBA

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I always encourage women to feel free to express their boredom, fears and feelings. If the man denies them all, he does not deserve you, you must then let him drop. I'm not that tolerant. :dry:

You'll probably not like my advice, but that is the way I think.

Shitty advice. Investing 8 years into a relationship isn't easily solvable with a drop it like its yesterday's garbage mentality. Any guy investing that much time and resources into a long relationship with a woman that will drop him on a dime if she's a little afraid, bored, or feels a little awkward is an idiot.

However, I do agree with you in short term low investment kind of relationships.
 
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Shitty advice. Investing 8 years into a relationship isn't easily solvable with a drop it like its yesterday's garbage mentality. Any guy investing that much time and resources into a long relationship with a woman that will drop him on a dime if she's a little afraid, bored, or feels a little awkward is an idiot.

However, I do agree with you in short term low investment kind of relationships.

Shitty advice. Well... I must say here I do appreciate A LOT your diplomacy kind ENTP friend. :dry:

First of all you are not a woman, and it is important to mention some women can be shy in front of the man they idealise, so that is why I affirm that point of view.

A man that loves a woman makes her feel confident, beautiful, happy (if she isn't already...).

Secondly one can be into a happy marriage for 20 or 30 years and suddenly...realise things have changed. They are not the same, don't want the same things for their future ...Ect.

THIS CAN HAPPEN.

So that does not depend on YEARS but on EXPECTATIONS, WILL, LOVE, COMMUNICATION and QUALITY (TO me).

"Being and idiot" is not the point. Moreover this is totally subjective.

I can think you are an asshole whereas my neighbour will think you're a genius.


I know many couples try to save everything and improve. When it is for love' sake, I think all those efforts are truly admirable.
 

Catscoffeek

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ISFP married to ENFJ

Hello there!
Im not sure if I'm doing this right so please bear with me :)
I am also and ISFP female with an ENFJ husband and although we love eachother deeply, we don't always get along well because we both have completely opposite ways of thinking about things and how we naturally want to live our lives. I am a free spirit who appreciates stability and accepts people how they are, whether I agree with them or whether I like them or not. I have zero interest in personally changing people, but I do wish some would be more kind and thoughtful, etc on their own. If they aren't, I am still cordial with them but I have no time for those sort of people in my life. My husband on the other hand THRIVES on helping others become the best version of themselves. He lives for it, and quite frankly, and a lot of times unreasonably, this can affect him personally as if he has failed or succeeded in some way depending on how the person responds. His self worth can thrive or disintegrate depending on how he feels he has helped or not been able to help others. He will go above and beyond for others, and at times at detriment to himself. He will pour himself out for others, but will have no time left for self care. He is very self sacrificing but not always balanced. He has come to realize, but no accept 100% because it goes so contrary to his nature, that some people simply do not want others help and they see it as pushy or even condescending. I am one of these types of people ;) Ha! I resist any type of pushiness, and I will stand my ground (depending on the situation of course) with usually a kind way of letting the pushy person know: "no thank you, I don't want to do that " and I do things in my own way at my own pace and time. My self worth comes from my inner being, doing things from my heart, and I show my feelings by actions rather than words most of the time, as I am horrible with words, and I fail at expressing myself correctly with others, unless they can kind of understand what I'm trying to say because we are alike. This even contributes to my outbursts of insanity at times during arguments or disagreements with my husband because I am so frustrated with myself for not being able to express or word things I am trying to say correctly and feeling misunderstood that I can just freak out. Later regretting it, obviously. :) Basically, in a word picture, my husband is a skyscraper, strong and stable, with lots of room for others to come for shelter or to feel safe and wanted, but whom also needs "support" so he doesn't fall over; I am an island that only will hold a very small amount of persons, but I will share what small amounts I may be able to give with anyone I let on, and it will be genuine and heartfelt. And then at times my island can become flooded with only room for myself.
I have the tendency to protect myself and my feelings from outsiders as if I have a bubble around me, and sometimes others have to break through to get to me...or I have to break out to get to others. I can be selfish with my time and my comfort levels. I need to constantly work on being balanced and stable.
I connect easily with animals and nature. I have a need and almost an obsession with beauty. I change a lot. My interests change, and I am usually unmotivated to do things until I "feel" like it. This is an entirely diffent subject, but in a nutshell, I am kind of a wishy washy person. Anyways, I totally get where you are coming from. We have been married 14 years and it's taken a lot of effort but we still work things out. We still go in phases where we are both on such completely different wave lengths or have different interests or goals at the time that we spend little quality time together, aka my husband is out helping and taking care of others and thriving on it I am just helping myself (haha!) and caring for small routine tasks like laundry and making dinner. Shopping, doing silly but enjoyable little things. But we do help one another. If it wasn't for me, my husband would be out of control, never knowing when to stop his going-going-going, and he wouldn't take the time to listen to others the way he has had to learn to do because of me. And if it wasn't for him I would be a hermit part of the time with only my cat allowed in my presence, or I would be bouncing around in life from one relationship to the next with no stability and longing for it. So, we both try to keep an open mind. We know we will have these arguments from time to time, and yes we both wish the other was a little more like ourselves so we could understand and have are in common with the other. But if we ever were to split, we know we would always come back to eachother or wish we never would have in the first place. So we won't. :) We let Bible principles rule our marriage and our lives and without this our lives and our marriage would be shipwrecked.
This is a very ISFP with ADHD comment, I realize that. Sorry but I think you will probably get what I am saying or trying to say since you are an ISFP :)
And yes, ENFJ's also live or die by affection or the lack of it. They need it, as we all do, but they need it more than ISFP. I have to allow myself to accept affection, and my husband HAS to have it. And also, he won't show it, and he will act like he is just fine and can handle the world, but he needs help and he needs affirmation, he needs thank you's, and hugs and kind words. He needs time alone to himself to zone out and refresh his inner being. He needs to know he is loved and cared for.
But don't we all? ;) Giving others the benefit of the doubt is so important, although it isn't easy at times. We all need kindness and patience. We are all imperfect and messed up.
Take care!
Hello, all. I'm new to the site but have been incognito for a while. I finally made an account, haha. So many interesting threads/topics/people on here. Anyway, My ENFJ husband and I have been together for about 8 years. I'm 26 and he's 34. He's my soulmate, a wonderful, caring, kind, brilliant human being. The last few years though we have been arguing more frequently. I brought a lot of baggage to our relationship from past family problems and relationships and he has been incredibly supportive and understanding of course, but it seems that he has lost his patience with me? (Although he claims that he has not because "he's still here"). I can be very distant and withdrawn in general but at times he makes passive-aggresive comments (or makes it into a joke because he has a great sense of humor in general and our relationship has thrived on that) about ignoring him or not being tender like other women with their husbands. This has hurt me because I love him so much and I know I show it in my own way. I know I can be argumentative and even mean. He can be a control-freak and excessively independent to the point where I feel I don't really have to do anything (when I try he does not let me) and then I, being a very laidback person in general, retreat and let him do everything. I'm used to it, but then I feel like he punishes me for it. He wants me to have this drive and motivation for certain things that I just don't have. He's a great teacher and mentor to me as well but when we get into arguments, it tends to end up with me crying my eyes out (out of frustation from feeling misunderstood and judged) and him just being silent and stoic (although in his defense he often lets go of his pride and comes towards me because he hates arguing) or I have anxiety attacks. His way of explaning his feelings is so superior to mine --- at least verbally -- and I just feel so small when I have so much in my mind and heart but cannot say the right things or it just comes out like something so nonsensical. I just don't know how to get inside his head or make him understand what I am feeling without being an emotional wreck. Any advice from other ENFJs? Or anyone? Thank you.
I Take cafe!
t
 

spirilis

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SearchingforPeace, your post was insightful and so helpful, thank you. It's great to see things from another ENFJ's perspective. He definitely craves a lot of verbal/physical affection. I have to be more understanding of this. I am affectionate with him but not as much as I should be.

I have been reminded again recently, after radically increasing my affection for my wife (who tests ENFJ), how much this lights up her world. It's like a magic key that I keep fumbling. I always think I'm doing it well enough, or maybe she isn't as impressed by my affection one moment and I automatically compensate by reducing it (typical xxTP brain?), until eventually I'm just not nearly as affectionate anymore..... like slowly boiling a frog I guess. Then something kicks me into paying close attention to my wife again and it's like DUH! How did I forget this one critical thing. I'm making a point to improve on this permanently from now on.
 

Tilt

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I have been reminded again recently, after radically increasing my affection for my wife (who tests ENFJ), how much this lights up her world. It's like a magic key that I keep fumbling. I always think I'm doing it well enough, or maybe she isn't as impressed by my affection one moment and I automatically compensate by reducing it (typical xxTP brain?), until eventually I'm just not nearly as affectionate anymore..... like slowly boiling a frog I guess. Then something kicks me into paying close attention to my wife again and it's like DUH! How did I forget this one critical thing. I'm making a point to improve on this permanently from now on.

Also, if you notice something that's just uniquely her, even if it seems extremely obvious to you, expressing that can be the biggest gift to some ENFJs. I know for me, I take my time learning what makes others special and express it (on occasion) and when someone close to shares an observation like that with me, it signals that he/she cared enough to take the time to actually know me.

I apologize if I overstepped... Your post made me think of that. 😊
 
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