[ENFP] ENFP keeps asking me how I'm feeling....

[INTJ123]

The first time I think I just gave a casual "I'm good"

But after a few more times, I started freezing up?

It's like I can't always react fast enough, I have to stop and look inside to see what my Fi is doing.


But anyways, I'm just wondering, what do you WANT to hear from people when you ask this?

What if I'm not feeling good, but I tell you "I'm good" just because I don't burden people with my problems?
(don't like doing this, I'm pretty much telling a lie)

What if I'm not feeling good, and I tell you "I'm not feeling good" I sure as hell know I hate when people talk about their negative feelings around me, it's contagious you know.


The question seems to superficial to me, because people ask it, and tend to only expect a positive response, if you tell the truth and you happen to be feeling bad, then they don't seem to appreciate it very much, understandably.

But it often puts me in an awkward situation of having to LIE about myself, for your sake, kind of like being pressured to tell a white lie you know?


But this question, of "How are you feeling" seems to be of great significance to this enfp, so what exactly does it mean to you to know how I feel? and I'd like to know how to deal with it, without compromising my own value of truth over emotion.

Oh and this enfp doesn't seem to be aware of mbti, but I could be wrong, she does seem super perceptive of people, their motivations, and feelings though, she knows a lot about me from observation and minimal interaction, but doesn't seem like she really gets the whole intj picture. She seems to have a high preference for feeling.

 

[five sounds]

It's not about feelings really. I mean I guess it partially is, but it's more of a gauge. ENFPs like to vibe with people and meet them where they're at to connect. We're just trying to hop on your wave.

ETA: Maybe it's really "what are you thinking?" To me feelings are kinda one step out from their root (the thoughts in your head), and really that's what I'm most interested in. If you're down, we'll happily and kindly dive into some deep shit with you, and share ours too.

 

[INTJ123]

It's not about feelings really. I mean I guess it partially is, but it's more of a gauge. ENFPs like to vibe with people and meet them where they're at to connect. We're just trying to hop on your wave.

ETA: Maybe it's really "what are you thinking?" To me feelings are kinda one step out from their root (the thoughts in your head), and really that's what I'm most interested in. If you're down, we'll happily and kindly dive into some deep shit with you, and share ours too.

Hmmm thanks, that gives me just a little more insight.

But I actually just watched an enfp intj relationship video on youtube where the enfp complained about the intj and how he shares his feelings. She said she "feels" like he's "thinking his feelings" for her, not sharing true feelings.

I keep wondering what the hell would an intj sharing his feelings look like?

To be honest, in my youth I was with an enfp and she got me to share tons of feelings and she was the only girl I told that I loved her, even though there were several more after her. But it never seems like an enfp can get enough of "feelings". It's really beyond me what they really SEE as feelings.

Is it possible for a thinker and a feeler to say the exact same sentence, but it's interpreted as more feeling or thinking by people simply by tone of voice or facial expressions?
Do I have to act like a Disney character for an enfp to finally see emotion in me?

 

[five sounds]

Hmmm thanks, that gives me just a little more insight.

But I actually just watched an enfp intj relationship video on youtube where the enfp complained about the intj and how he shares his feelings. She said she "feels" like he's "thinking his feelings" for her, not sharing true feelings.

I keep wondering what the hell would an intj sharing his feelings look like?

To be honest, in my youth I was with an enfp and she got me to share tons of feelings and she was the only girl I told that I loved her, even though there were several more after her. But it never seems like an enfp can get enough of "feelings". It's really beyond me what they really SEE as feelings.

Is it possible for a thinker and a feeler to say the exact same sentence, but it's interpreted as more feeling or thinking by people simply by tone of voice or facial expressions?

Yeah, I've heard what you're saying to me from romantic partners kind of a lot. It's especially enticing with introverts because it seems like there's so much in there to get to know. It's exciting and it can make me a bit pushy and hungry for more, which is something I have to really keep an eye on.

I know it's actually impossible for anyone to be 100% raw and share all, but it's what I want. And I at least want to be moving closer and closer to that point with my partner.

About your last question, yes I definitely believe that passion/giddines/really a whole multitude of states that boil down to vulnerability and loss of 'guard' is what I'm looking for. Sometimes intjs seem too composed for it to seem vulnerable to me. Too calculated, and probably holding stuff back.

Edited. Sorry, lol.

 

[INTJ123]

Yeah, I've heard what you're saying to me from romantic partners kind of a lot. It's especially enticing with introverts because it seems like there's so much in there to get to know. It's exciting.

I know it's actually impossible for anyone to be 100% raw and share all, but it's what I want. And I at least want to be moving closer and closer to that point with my partner.

About your last question, yes I definitely believe that passion/giddines/really a whole multitude of states that boil down to vulnerability and loss of 'guard' is what I'm looking for. Sometimes intjs seem too composed for it to seem vulnerable to me. Too calculated, and probably holding stuff back.

None of that surprises me, it's the same old story to me. For god sakes, I had a small argument with this enfp about a month ago, and then I sprained my ankle really bad and think I tore a ligament though I never went to the doctor but it was disgusting with internal bleeding and swollen toes. But anyways, I ran into her 2 hours after I got injured and all of a sudden she's happy to see me(because I looked extremely vulnerable, I felt like I would be unable to defend myself if something like a physical altercation came up). Though she might of not even known about my ankle I was hiding it and it took some more time for the full pain and swelling to set in. But it all seemed sadistic......it's the same attitude a lot of people have with me, people I don't like. They ENJOY seeing me in PAIN.

The enfp doesn't seem to understand I'm most physically, spiritually, emotionally stable and happy when I'm feeling confident. But they always want to bring me down for reason, probably envy and their own insecurity in their own confidence, because they derive a lot of their self worth from affirmations from others, while the intj derives his self worth from his own standards.

 

[five sounds]

None of that surprises me, it's the same old story to me. For god sakes, I had a small argument with this enfp about a month ago, and then I sprained my ankle really bad and think I tore a ligament though I never went to the doctor but it was disgusting with internal bleeding and swollen toes. But anyways, I ran into her 2 hours after I got injured and all of a sudden she's happy to see me(because I looked extremely vulnerable, I felt like I would be unable to defend myself if something like a physical altercation came up). Though she might of not even known about my ankle I was hiding it and it took some more time for the full pain and swelling to set it. But it all seemed sadistic......it's the same attitude a lot of people have with me, people I don't like. They ENJOY seeing me in PAIN.

Haha!

Why does vulnerability equal pain to you?

Pain can bring about a vulnerable state, but I sincerely doubt she enjoyed seeing you in pain.

 

[five sounds]

[MENTION=7272]INTJ123[/MENTION] she'd probably rather see you do karaoke or talk about your favorite book or some weird thing you want to invent.

 

[INTJ123]

[MENTION=7272]INTJ123[/MENTION] she'd probably rather see you do karaoke or talk about your favorite book or some weird thing you want to invent.

I'm a pretty darn good karaoke singer, I make esfp's get jealous by stealing the show.
I also have 2 inventions that I've been meaning to invent, and I will get around to them, they are extremely practical ideas that will work for sure, but are also pretty innovative. Sorry can't tell you them here, someone will steal my intellectual property.

Those are good ideas, but the environment in which I interact with this enfp doesn't really allow long and deep conversations.

But what I really desire, is to be able to express feelings, and have her interpret my expressions as genuine feelings. I have extremely intense feelings, but I guess they just get inwardly directed.
Oh and by the way, in the argument I had with her, I exploded with anger for 1 second saying 1 word which I can't even remember now because of the anger. But she let out a little excited shriek and got extremely turned on going whhhooooowheeegiiigggggly.

So that leads me to believe she's probably turbulent, and wants my RAW INTENSE emotions, though at that point I'm more like an animal than a rational human being. Do enfps just want the animal in me? hehe.

 

[five sounds]

I'm a pretty darn good karaoke singer, I make esfp's get jealous by stealing the show.
I also have 2 inventions that I've been meaning to invent, and I will get around to them, they are extremely practical ideas that will work for sure, but are also pretty innovative. Sorry can't tell you them here, someone will steal my intellectual property.

Those are good ideas, but the environment in which I interact with this enfp doesn't really allow long and deep conversations.

But what I really desire, is to be able to express feelings, and have her interpret my expressions as genuine feelings. I have extremely intense feelings, but I guess they just get inwardly directed.
Oh and by the way, in the argument I had with her, I exploded with anger for 1 second saying 1 word which I can't even remember now because of the anger. But she let out a little excited shriek and got extremely turned on going whhhooooowheeegiiigggggly.

So that leads me to believe she's probably turbulent, and wants my RAW INTENSE emotions, though at that point I'm more like an animal than a rational human being. Do enfps just want the animal in me? hehe.

Can I just get excited about how much you were into the rando things I threw out? *pats self on back*

For real though, yeah that's it. Raw. But not necessarily turbulent for the sake of excitement. It's important for there to be elation commensurate with the depths so you can come out feeling ok. I totally get why she squealed. She probably felt like you just let your shit fly from your gut to your mouth without refining it first.

I know it's different for you guys. And in a lot of ways it's not fair for me to feel impatient or skeptical of authenticity just because the energy's different. It's just hard when you're an intimacy junkie. I feel like I'm forever between apologizing for and asserting this desire.

Edit: I made it seem kind of extreme with my words. Raw can also be rawly normal as fuck. Like just so real and human. Idk. I really love that middle ground, sustainable heart rate kind of rawness lol.

 

[INTJ123]

Can I just get excited about how much you were into the rando things I threw out? *pats self on back*

For real though, yeah that's it. Raw. But not necessarily turbulent for the sake of excitement. It's important for there to be elation commensurate with the depths so you can come out feeling ok. I totally get why she squealed. She probably felt like you just let your shit fly from your gut to your mouth without refining it first.

I know it's different for you guys. And in a lot of ways it's not fair for me to feel impatient or skeptical of authenticity just because the energy's different. It's just hard when you're an intimacy junkie. I feel like I'm forever between apologizing for and asserting this desire.

Edit: I made it seem kind of extreme with my words. Raw can also be rawly normal as fuck. Like just so real and human. Idk. I really love that middle ground, sustainable heart rate kind of rawness lol.

Sigh....feeling language is so ambiguous.... it's probably why I have trouble learning it. Sigh.....again.....

 

[five sounds]

Sigh....feeling language is so ambiguous.... it's probably why I have trouble learning it. Sigh.....again.....

 

[INTJ123]

Haha!

Why does vulnerability equal pain to you?

Pain can bring about a vulnerable state, but I sincerely doubt she enjoyed seeing you in pain.

Pain usually stops me from being at my best, and if I'm not at my best then I'm obviously more vulnerable in a lot of ways both physically and mentally.

I get what you mean though, you want a different vulnerability, like emotional vulnerability, but truth be told, when you do get it, you get disgusted with it..........Ever seen an intj in "the grip" you realize we are in a vulnerable state at that point, and do you like it? I think not, I think it reminds you of yourselves too much.

Be careful what you ask for, I like to give people what they ask for to show them that they didn't really want it. I remember a college professor who kept complaining we care about grades too much, and he started saying he got a bunch of C's in college and stuff. So when I had to perform jury duty I chose to miss his class the most since he doesn't care about grades and all.......well I guess he did care because he ended up doing some of my work for me so I don't have to repeat his class hahaha......

 

[Gawain]

You might want to ask your ENFP if there's any particular reason when they ask. Bridge the gap by trying to find the thinking behind the timing of the question. The tricky thing for ENFPs is that their intuition might not tell them why they feel compelled to ask. If they have to examine their reasons, either their intuition may improve, or you might find out that you were indadvertantly sending what they percieved as a distress signal.

To clarify, one of my ENFP friends asks others how they're doing almost non-stop. His family was highly neurotic, and he basically is always on high-alert for negative emotions that may not actually exist. When we ask him why he's worried, he often realizes it has more to do with his reading of the situation than the situation itself. To contrast, there's another ENFP I work with. She's basically everyone's work-mother. If you're having a bad day, she'll know. She always wants to check in and make sure we're all okay. If we're not, she either does what she can to help or just tries to do the things she knows we like to brighten our day. INTs tend to throw her off a bit, because most play their cards pretty close to the chest. But once she gets to know someone's habits and moods, she's pretty good at reading them, too. It just seems to take her longer to figure them out than most other types.

 

[INTJ123]

You might want to ask your ENFP if there's any particular reason when they ask. Bridge the gap by trying to find the thinking behind the timing of the question. The tricky thing for ENFPs is that their intuition might not tell them why they feel compelled to ask. If they have to examine their reasons, either their intuition may improve, or you might find out that you were indadvertantly sending what they percieved as a distress signal.

To clarify, one of my ENFP friends asks others how they're doing almost non-stop. His family was highly neurotic, and he basically is always on high-alert for negative emotions that may not actually exist. When we ask him why he's worried, he often realizes it has more to do with his reading of the situation than the situation itself. To contrast, there's another ENFP I work with. She's basically everyone's work-mother. If you're having a bad day, she'll know. She always wants to check in and make sure we're all okay. If we're not, she either does what she can to help or just tries to do the things she knows we like to brighten our day. INTs tend to throw her off a bit, because most play their cards pretty close to the chest. But once she gets to know someone's habits and moods, she's pretty good at reading them, too. It just seems to take her longer to figure them out than most other types.

I already know the reason, they are trying to draw me out of my shell, teach me how to be more touchy feely, and they are obsessed with feelings. But the way I see it is that I never try to teach them electrical engineering(unless they ask), why are they trying to teach me how to be touchy feely?(when I didn't ask) If they want to ask of me feeling, they need to ask of themselves thinking, or else it's all just me compromising and growing while they stagnate in their vain little bubble of feelings.(not saying all enfp's are like this, but the I've known a few)

I guess I tend to just accept people as is instead of trying to get them to improve themselves. It's pretty ironic that in trying to help me, they make me perceive their actions as being unaccepting of the way I am, and it really becomes obvious just how unaccepting they are if I don't bend.

I think the next time she asks me how am I feeling, I will respond with "What's Kirchoff's voltage and current laws? Oh you don't know? Well I don't know how I'm feeling either."

Or you guys could just simply tell me whether I should give the white lie response or a truthful response. There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer to my internal value paradox.

 

[Gawain]

Ah! I see! I would go with an answer that's both emotionally truthful and to the point. "Annoyed that I keep getting asked." Or "frustrated that we're going through this again". It may have a little emotional fallout, but it will be less now than if it builds up over time. I thought you were concerened about being honest for unrelated reasons to the nagging at hand. In this situation, the white lie is unlikely to convince them thouroughly. This could have the unfortunate side effect of them thinking you are lying to yourself rather than to them, and that you need their help to realize it. Hope this helps! And I hope they take it well and learn from it. Though there might not be much you can do about that. :-/

 

[five sounds]

Pain usually stops me from being at my best, and if I'm not at my best then I'm obviously more vulnerable in a lot of ways both physically and mentally.

I get what you mean though, you want a different vulnerability, like emotional vulnerability, but truth be told, when you do get it, you get disgusted with it..........Ever seen an intj in "the grip" you realize we are in a vulnerable state at that point, and do you like it? I think not, I think it reminds you of yourselves too much.

Be careful what you ask for, I like to give people what they ask for to show them that they didn't really want it. I remember a college professor who kept complaining we care about grades too much, and he started saying he got a bunch of C's in college and stuff. So when I had to perform jury duty I chose to miss his class the most since he doesn't care about grades and all.......well I guess he did care because he ended up doing some of my work for me so I don't have to repeat his class hahaha......

It's REALLY interesting to me that you keep coming back with times that your composure is *taken* from you or You lose control of the situation as your examples of vulnerability. Is it really that impossible for you to imagine giving it up freely and in a healthy, not out-of-control way?

If you really don't know how you're feeling, tell her that. [MENTION=25062]Gawain[/MENTION] made a good point about being anxious about perceived negative emotions which is definitely something I can relate to when I'm stressed out or doubting myself a lot. So maybe she just needs to hear you're not secretly judging her or that you're not bored as fuck and wish she would shut up.

And I think being with someone in the grips is an experience that I would feel brought me closer to my partner. Just going through hardship together is an example of taking life on in an honest, raw way.

 

[INTJ123]

It's REALLY interesting to me that you keep coming back with times that your composure is *taken* from you or You lose control of the situation as your examples of vulnerability. Is it really that impossible for you to imagine giving it up freely and in a healthy, not out-of-control way?

If you really don't know how you're feeling, tell her that. [MENTION=25062]Gawain[/MENTION] made a good point about being anxious about perceived negative emotions which is definitely something I can relate to when I'm stressed out or doubting myself a lot. So maybe she just needs to hear you're not secretly judging her or that you're not bored as fuck and wish she would shut up.

And I think being with someone in the grips is an experience that I would feel brought me closer to my partner. Just going through hardship together is an example of taking life on in an honest, raw way.

I'd like to hear a real example of when you've seen an intj vulnerable just the way you imagined it, freely and healthy too. And also when he shared his feelings and you interpreted it as genuine feelings. Also how is being vulnerable a good thing? The word in itself implies weakness, and therefore it always seems that people are trying to bring me down, to weaken me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerability
Vulnerability refers to the inability to withstand the effects of a hostile environment, or I guess as you put it having no guard......which makes me weak.
Unless you can more clearly and specifically define EXACTLY what you mean by your version of vulnerability, I'm going to be inclined to believe that it is indeed synonymous with weakness, and intj's do not like to feel weak, as I've stated before I'm at my best when feeling confident.
Also note how many times the word disaster shows up in the common applications section, which includes your type of social definition as well. The product of vulnerability is disaster, like so many enfp's life stories(just kidding, you will probably be offended lol).


I'm sorry but I'm getting annoyed with the way P types communicate, it's always indirect and open for change, nothing ever sounds concrete or definite. It's like the difference between theory and facts. I want the facts, you keep telling me theories.....

Also I don't find it interesting that you find something interesting about me, it starts giving me a creepy feeling that you're starting to look at me like a project that needs fixing, but don't worry, another enfp is already on that with me, so please resist your urge to fix what is "wrong" with me.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm sorry but I'm getting annoyed with the way P types communicate, it's always indirect and open for change, nothing ever sounds concrete or definite.

I trully support you in this. (I guess I can say the same for the whole thread)



I am must say that I find it generally annoying when I am accused that I am not genuine because of my orderly nature, since the other person is convinced that orderly can't be genuine and reflect true personality of a person. If a person is aware of MBTI and psychology in general the problem can be sorted out, but if this is not the case there is a chance that there will be problems. On the other hand I define myself as system designer since my early years and if you want to see my genuineness and real representation of my feelings and believes than take a look at what I have organized or designed and on which parameters the models seem to be made.


However if you directly ask me "what I am feeling" I get the desire to tell you the truth in your face and in most cases there are only 4 states on mind in my on typical day:


1. I feel nothing since I am so lost in my head because desing some kind of a solution or a plan that I am completely out of touch with what feelers call feelings.
2. I am annoyed over something that happened or is likely to happen. (and often this is just random wondering about flawed nature of reality)
3. It is ambition that drives me to achive things and makes sure that I stay on track.
4. Is a desire to know things and shape them into something different or useful.


However if you are trully interested in everything that remains when you fiter out these 4 categories you just have to be around on regular basis and looks as someone that can be trusted. Because in that case I will on my own hand tell you what I am feeling.

 

[Gawain]

I'm seeing a disconect between you two where the N function is concerned. INTJ123, I think your problem is not with P types in general, but with rampant Ne. As you specified, the overabundance of theories without anything concrete. Please refer to my above post. Without understanding your intent, I was unable to provide concrete advice. If I understand your intent correctly, the only option is clear. Remember that ENFPs primary function is Ne. They excel at coming up with more scenarios than they know what to do with.

five sounds, remember Ni is different. It's the primary function of the INTJ. It deals with learning how something works, not just being curious about the backstory. Thus his reaction of feeling like you are trying to pick him apart when you think you're not. Simple Ne-Ni disconnect.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Vulnerability is a rough one. If you have never encountered Brené Brown, I highly recommend her work on the subject.

Start with her two Ted talks to get a taste.

brene_brown_on_vulnerability

brene_brown_listening_to_shame

As someone who was never vulnerable to anyone ever until this year, these talks helped me. I have read two of books as well now.

Vulnerability enables connection and wholehearted living. We are not islands in this world.