[INFP] Please, don't take this personally.

[BlakeUndefined]

Hello.
So I created a thread on PerC titled,"Don't hate me for this."
Basically My iNFP friend kept proclaiming on how special he was and everyone else was below him etc and I really can't seem to talk to him about anything else. So I told him that He was ordinary, just like everyone else. I mean We're all like trees, In the big picture, we're all the same. He didn't react well to it, but everything's settled between us.

And my question was, As a friend, How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Now, most of the INFPs on PerC, took this personally and started going on about how they would personally feel and react if someone told this to them. Most of them were missing the point, reacting immaturely instead of giving constructive advice(I-could-feel-their-anger). I don't need to know how they'll react. I want to know why they'd react such and how I can get them to see it in a different way, because honestly, If this goes on, I don't think ill be able to help my friend move on in life.

So please, don't take this personally.

 

[Hawthorne]

How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Let time happen and hope it brings maturity with it.

People like that often have latent self-esteem issues. A good world shattering existential crisis might snap him out of it. I dunno, lend him some Nietzsche? :/

Since I'm running low on flippancy and sweetness today, I'll refrain from commenting on PerC's user base this once.

 

[prplchknz]

sorry not you but that reaction

as an INFP i hate shit like that it makes my type look bad.

and so this answers the question of that other thread, do i hate people of my own type? if they behave like this? and to tell you the truth i dunno what to do hope something will knock him back to reality some day, or perhaps you could but i dunno what would.

 

[Lexicon]

Hello.
So I created a thread on PerC titled,"Don't hate me for this."
Basically My iNFP friend kept proclaiming on how special he was and everyone else was below him etc and I really can't seem to talk to him about anything else. So I told him that He was ordinary, just like everyone else. I mean We're all like trees, In the big picture, we're all the same. He didn't react well to it, but everything's settled between us.

And my question was, As a friend, How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Now, most of the INFPs on PerC, took this personally and started going on about how they would personally feel and react if someone told this to them. Most of them were missing the point, reacting immaturely instead of giving constructive advice(I-could-feel-their-anger). I don't need to know how they'll react. I want to know why they'd react such and how I can get them to see it in a different way, because honestly, If this goes on, I don't think ill be able to help my friend move on in life.

So please, don't take this personally.

It's not your job to help your friend move on in life. You can't really control the growth of another person, and, while it's well-meaning to want to, it's a bit naive, and, perhaps, arrogant, on your part to believe you can.

Your friend obviously bases a good portion of his identity around how 'special' he is. You can't expect him to shed his attachment to that concept easily. The special snowflake nonsense is not type-related. Often this is a psychological defense mechanism to shield the individual from facing their own fears of being mediocre, irrelevant, or rejected in some way by the world. For all the reasons behind it, it's compensatory at the end of the day. Only life experiences will either smack some humility into him, forcing him to finally face himself, grow... or they'll make him cling tighter to his mental blankie - that 'special, superior' self perception, getting bent whenever reality fails to meet his needs. You can be his shoulder to cry on when the world disappoints his lofty expectations day after day, or be a sympathetic ear when he vents how novel & misunderstood he is compared to everyone else in this great big world that just keeps on letting him down.

Perhaps you can try telling him to grow the fuck up & get over himself.. and see how that comment lands.

Or, you can accept that your friend may have what is known as a character flaw. He may or may not ever grow past it. The only burden on you is accepting that, or not - and making decisions for your own life, and working on what sort of person you want to be. That may perhaps indirectly influence your friend. It may not. People will be who they are.

Oh, and.. you should probably stay off PerC.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Hello.
So I created a thread on PerC titled,"Don't hate me for this."
Basically My iNFP friend kept proclaiming on how special he was and everyone else was below him etc and I really can't seem to talk to him about anything else. So I told him that He was ordinary, just like everyone else. I mean We're all like trees, In the big picture, we're all the same. He didn't react well to it, but everything's settled between us.

And my question was, As a friend, How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Now, most of the INFPs on PerC, took this personally and started going on about how they would personally feel and react if someone told this to them. Most of them were missing the point, reacting immaturely instead of giving constructive advice(I-could-feel-their-anger). I don't need to know how they'll react. I want to know why they'd react such and how I can get them to see it in a different way, because honestly, If this goes on, I don't think ill be able to help my friend move on in life.

So please, don't take this personally.

They didn't do that. Lots of people gave you advice, but apparantly it was not what you wanted to hear.

I recall giving you a thoughtful answer myself. You disappeared and didn't acknowledge anything anyone said. You could have asked for clarity if you did not grasp what was being advised.

FYI, lots of people post on both forums.

 

[BlakeUndefined]

They didn't do that. Lots of people gave you advice, but apparantly it was not what you wanted to hear.

I recall giving you a thoughtful answer myself. You disappeared and didn't acknowledge anything anyone said. You could have asked for clarity if you did not grasp what was being advised.

FYI, lots of people post on both forums.

Lol i understood. I just got retired before i could respond. Tbh, i needed advice, not opinions. And besides i said "most" not all. I read some really good and meaningful responses there, but not all were useful. Thanks though.

And like i said, i needed advice. I mean direct advice, not opinions. I wanted something concrete not subjective, but meh. Its been quite some time since ive contemplated leaving perC so yeah.

Meh to rephrase that: basically most of you guys told me what i cant do. Not what i can.

 

[INTJ123]

Lol i understood. I just got retired before i could respond. Tbh, i needed advice, not opinions. And besides i said "most" not all. I read some really good and meaningful responses there, but not all were useful. Thanks though.

And like i said, i needed advice. I mean direct advice, not opinions. I wanted something concrete not subjective, but meh. Its been quite some time since ive contemplated leaving perC so yeah.

Meh to rephrase that: basically most of you guys told me what i cant do. Not what i can.

Ignore him and if he tries to contact you say, "I'm beneath you dude, you are too cool for me"

Who would of thought that agreeing with him might actually make him see the error of his ways?
like I said in another thread, I like to give people what they want, in order to help them see that they really don't want it.....

 

[Gawain]

I could be wrong, but I think I'm seeing a pattern here. So far, your issues have been:

1. Your friend talking about himself and the ways he values himself as he is more than as he could be.
2. Other INFPs reactions which were emotionally overexpressive.
3. Other INFPs responses being empathetic and storytelling in nature rather than straightforward.

This sounds like a possible problem with Fi. Fi is INFPs primary function. It is looking inward at values and emotions. It is ranking one's personal values, which can have the unfortunate side-effect of seeming externally judgmental when it was not said with that intent. It is emotionally expressive. It is easiest to convey through storytelling examples. It is not actually the same thing as taking something personally, though many others make the mistake of confusing the two.

I could be wildly off. I do not know your friend. I have not read the posts of which you speak. I merely imagined myself in your shoes, in your friend's shoes, and guessed at what types of responses you would have gotten from what appears to be typical INFP forum behavior. And I looked up your functions for good measure. Due to the difficulty in avoiding Fi in this post, you may be able to detect an over-reliance on Ne and Te. Many conclusions had to be leapt to in order to form any sort of advice without resorting to storytelling examples. It is awkward as fuck.

 

[Cellmold]

I wonder how he proves this to himself?

 

[geedoenfj]

Well let him think he is better than everyone else until the life teach him a lesson, but be sure to stay around him so he could find you whenever he needs you [emoji72]🏻

 

[Gawain]

Trouble is, INFPs don't prove anything to ourselves. It's just looking inward to see what we value most. When we decide what we value most, we act on that. But since our actions are based on our values, we inherently do not value opposing things as much. As you can see, this can be awesome or terrible for others, depending on what the INFP has decided they value and whether your values happen to coincide with theirs.

For instance, an INFP that values harmony and friendship will be very externally humble because that keeps the peace. An INFP that values truth and despises ignorance will be unflinchingly honest in their opinions and share information you never asked for. An INFP who values hard work may constantly remind themselves and others to keep busy, and deride hobbies.

While this seems like something all types do, in the INFPs case, the only reason we need to do any of that is that we decided to value something. I decided to value courage, the pursuit of truth, and honesty over other things. It was a decision made purely from looking inward and deciding which values I wish to use to define myself. It never needed to be proven, because it's my choice. Choice already made, I use that to make further choices in values and guide my actions. In the case of an INFP, the values guide the thought process. The thought process is unnecessary in guiding the values.

I in no way think that others' values are inherently invalid. But since I fight for my values, if ours clash, I will stick to mine. They define me, not anyone else. But since they define me, I cannot neglect to uphold them when there is a conflict. This is the difference between truly believing myself better than others, and believing my values are best for me. During a conflict, I sincerely doubt anyone else could tell the difference. But to an INFP, that difference means the world.

Sorry for the lapse into personal territory, but I think it might help at this point to see an internal picture of an INFP. Specific values aside, it might help to see what our process is like.

 

[magpie]

All advice is an opinion.

But I agree with what other people said in that you can't force someone to change or grow. If you don't like the way he is then don't hang out with him.

 

[Ribonuke]

Back when I was in my INFJ phase, I had similar issues. In fact, failing to get a narcissistic/borderline INFP friend of mine to improve, and only succeeding in managing to get him hopelessly attracted to me because I had oversold my competence in my Fe-Ni...this is why I started walling people out for a while.

There is no cure-all I can give you, but my only advice is to tell him how you feel, grit your teeth and hope that he realizes what he's losing when you inevitably doorslam him (no offense to INFJs; this is actually just the kind of situation doorslamming is for.)

I wish you better luck than mine.

 

[Tinyclaws]

Wow, an INFP with the special snowflake syndrome? I suppose this could happen if an INFP is never or rarely exposed to another reality except his own version, and Ne/Te are underdeveloped. I think nobody can take him them out of his delusion then, as stated by previous comments, let the harsh reality of the world teaches him, which is imminent. Or you can try to shake him but I don't guarantee the success. Don't get your hopes up though, if you should fail, let him learn his own lessons.

Oh and I think I was awaken out of my own delusion by a striking and transcendental poem by an INFJ when I was almost 20, so I guess I was lucky.

 

[Amargith]

Err

2 things jump out to me that are classic Fe (and which Fi does radically different) and are significantly contributing to the miscommunication, I feel

a) you don't want to hear empathic stories, you want a fix
b) you want everyone to be equal and not to feel special (over others)


The thing is - Fi helps others by doing a). They recognise the situation that you're in, and they're providing you with feedback of what could be going on your INFP friends head in order to make you really, truly understand what is going on. This is how Fi attacks problems - by first understanding it, and only *then* moving on to Te to solve it. As an INFP, you need that information. Likely, if you acknowledge the information and then ask 'So where do I go from here?', it will spark them to walk you through how they would want to be approached and have the problem fixed. Which will give you a number of options, from which you can synthesise the tailor made one for you and your friend.

What you're doing feels...dismissive and slightly disrespectful to Fi - aka, making a beeline for the quick fix already without appreciating the journey there - which is classic Fe, coz that is where your focus is going to be - just like ours is the journey

About your actual problem...thats's where maybe b) comes in. One of the things that I noticed is that with Fe's focus on group performance and group unity and Fi's focus on Self and individualism, they word things differently but really are pointing at the same thing. Now, this is a guess, as I don't know your friend and don't know anything about them aside from what your view on the situation is as you put it in the OP.

But...I've noticed that Fe-users can get very irritable at anyone who actually discerns themselves from the group as they perceive it to be 'not modest'. Meanwhile, Fi tends to be oblivious and walk to the beat of their own drum. That's...bound to clash. And, Fi users tend to value the specialness of any individual. They're a piece of art - beautiful, perfectly imperfect, unique in their very own way. That includes ourselves - yet the outside world is very willing to beat us down and tell us we're nothing special at all. And MBTI for someone who feels that beaten down is...well, like a revelation. It outlines your skills, your strengths, your potential pitfalls....it's like a personality map that validates everything you are and can become.

Ironically, both Fe and Fi are pointing to the same thing. Fe users will say: you're nothing special, we're all alike and nobody is superior over another - as you did. Fi-users will say: you are an individual, you are special in your own right, with your own unique talents and skills. And nobody is superior.

You see, we focus on the individual, meaning we see all the ways they are unique onto their own - special in their own right. But then EACH individual is special in their own way, none of them are superior because each one has special skills and talents and personalities that contribute to our wonderfully diverse world and society.

In essence, Fe and Fi users mean the same thing - we're all connected and together we can do anything. It just gets expressed very differently. And to an Fi-user (especially one that maybe had a troubled past where she didn't receive the validation she so needed from her parents or family in generally, as a child - something we *all* need to build our self-esteem properly), this validation through MBTI can address a need so deep that they certainly can lose themselves in the good feeling of it - and become obsessive (and therefore obnoxious) about it.


Now, this is just a crude sort of educated guess, but it is a possible explanation for your situation.

/2 cents.

 

[Cellmold]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

If someone is going to proclaim specialness, they need to demonstrate it with evidence, otherwise who are they trying to reassure?

I think that's the main issue, not necessarily the Fe/Fi communication divide.

 

[Amargith]

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

If someone is going to proclaim specialness, they need to demonstrate it with evidence, otherwise who are they trying to reassure?

I think that's the main issue, not necessarily the Fe/Fi communication divide.

I really don't think anyone has to defend anything they say that is an opinion or a personal experience. If that were the case, freedom of speech would be pretty much a thing of the past. And especially not when they're just relishing in new information they've just discovered about themselves - most people who discover things that are a revelation to them cannot shut up about it. Just think of overzealous, enthusiastic vegans, newly converted christians, hell, even being in love for the first time and so on. Their discovery of this new thing that enriched their lives is hard to shut up about and allows them to process it. And sure, this can be incredibly obnoxious to those around them. It also calms down over time as they settle in.

This has nothing to do with anyone else. And sure, you can decide that you don't want to hear about it - an interaction, after all, is a 2 way street, so you can opt out

Also, you're demonstrating the Fe-insistance on this non-specialness like a pro - with Ti playing back up (the insistence of proof of this 'hypothesis')

 

[Cellmold]

I really don't think anyone has to defend anything they say that is an opinion or a personal experience. If that were the case, freedom of speech would be pretty much a thing of the past. And especially not when they're just relishing in new information they've just discovered about themselves - most people who discover things that are a revelation to them cannot shut up about it. Just think of overzealous, enthusiastic vegans, newly converted christians, hell, even being in love for the first time and so on. Their discovery of this new thing that enriched their lives is hard to shut up about and allows them to process it. And sure, this can be incredibly obnoxious to those around them. It also calms down over time as they settle in.

This has nothing to do with anyone else. And sure, you can decide that you don't want to hear about it - an interaction, after all, is a 2 way street, so you can opt out

Also, you're demonstrating the Fe-insistance on this non-specialness like a pro - with Ti playing back up (the insistence of proof of this 'hypothesis')

If you have the right to put opinions out into the world people have the right to put their own opinions back. They can walk away if they want, but it's a choice either way and equally valid at that.

I really really dislike this fucking obnoxious care bear bullshit people are propagating.

You have every right to revel in your voiced opinions but others have just as much a right to call bullshit on it. There is a degree; I'm not advocating immediately going towards a harsh reaction but life is a rough deal; you can stay with it and fight your corner or opt out and cower away from it.

No one gets a free pass.

ps: I'm really disgusted by the way you use functional theory as a way to trivialise the positions of others; nice going with the open minded view "Ne dom" /irony

Also you know fuck all about how I view specialness, it's natural that some people will be more individualistic than others or possess talents others don't. I've not got an issue with someone claiming specialness unless I disagree with that individual, do you get it yet?

And every reply you make proves my point; you are free to reply or ignore me. But no one gets a right to one over the other and everyone having to make concessions.

 

[ceecee]

Hello.
So I created a thread on PerC titled,"Don't hate me for this."
Basically My iNFP friend kept proclaiming on how special he was and everyone else was below him etc and I really can't seem to talk to him about anything else. So I told him that He was ordinary, just like everyone else. I mean We're all like trees, In the big picture, we're all the same. He didn't react well to it, but everything's settled between us.

And my question was, As a friend, How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Now, most of the INFPs on PerC, took this personally and started going on about how they would personally feel and react if someone told this to them. Most of them were missing the point, reacting immaturely instead of giving constructive advice(I-could-feel-their-anger). I don't need to know how they'll react. I want to know why they'd react such and how I can get them to see it in a different way, because honestly, If this goes on, I don't think ill be able to help my friend move on in life.

So please, don't take this personally.

Ok all I want to know is why does any of this matter? So your friend thinks he's uncommon. So? Why do you need to "provoke" him to do anything? Do you really think anyone is going to be talked out of a conviction? No, that's a learned process. So let him learn and let everyone everywhere punch him in the face for being a pompous dick and you keep your nose out of his education.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Hello.
So I created a thread on PerC titled,"Don't hate me for this."
Basically My iNFP friend kept proclaiming on how special he was and everyone else was below him etc and I really can't seem to talk to him about anything else. So I told him that He was ordinary, just like everyone else. I mean We're all like trees, In the big picture, we're all the same. He didn't react well to it, but everything's settled between us.

And my question was, As a friend, How would i get him to transcend his current state? How can I provoke him to do that? I am rather worried for him.

Why are you worried for him?

My first thought was, 'why is he behaving like this'? This is a terribly important question before deciding how to 'deal with it'. Does his family culture feel superior to other people and brag on him all the time or do they put him down and make him feel worthless? Do they do both? Some family cultures that are highly competitive brag about their kids in public, but tear them to shreds in private. His attitude and behavior may be a survival mechanism. The truth is that he is special, and you are special, so the problem is not feeling valuable, the problem is only in dismissing other people. Let him feel special, but suggest respecting and valuing others more if he is not doing that. Just share information about specific people who are special, not the blanket concept of 'humanity'.

I wouldn't tell him he has to change, but help him to appreciate people who are less. Help him see value in someone who feels pressure to conform, does conform, and lives out their life empty and sad. Instead of superiority, it is reasonable to recognize such a person's loss, or even to appreciate that they get to feel like they belong someplace. Show him the developmentally delayed person who has deep happiness in their life because they aren't caught up in the need to be superior.

In the same way that cause-and-effect is important in understanding your friend, it is also important for your friend to understand that cause-and-effect plays a role in the lives of the people you describe him looking down on. If he lived their lives, if you lived his life, would each result be the same? There is no way to prove it either way, so that possibility is important to keep in mind to maintain humility and respect for people very different from ourselves.