[NF] ENFx--"cult leader"?

[plastic ciel]

Everywhere I read , the ENFP is considered the charismatic "cult leader" type. I like ENFPs, my best friend is one--but she is definitely not charismatic at all. She thinks she is (3w2 so/sp) but she unwittingly makes horribly offensive comments. Even being a TJ, I'm much better at deciding what's appropriate and kind to say.

Anyway, my father's either an ENFJ or an ESTP; not quite sure. In a huge Fe/Se loop for sure. Also, an 8w9 sx/so. He is a stereotypical sx-so; intense, can be domineering, obsessive, well-meaning, way too good at reading other's emotions. He can't go ten minutes without talking to anyone. When he's home from work away from his work pals, he literally talks breathlessly for hours at a time. He cries very frequently and openly.

He is so Fe. He is so great at reading other's emotions and shows his very openly, also a fan of discussing his and others' feelings. He will generally avoid expressing his true thoughts for the sake of not offending them, but make snide comments behind their back; tbh, it's pretty entertaining. He is very charming and charismatic, everyone adores him as soon as they meet him, he knows how to respond to other's emotions perfectly.

He also attracts people with Se. He loves the finer things in life, traveling, dreamy languages, extremely overpriced desserts, that kind of thing. His love of this makes him occasionally seem more feminine, which he willingly embraces (without any sort of gender identity crisis).

Meanwhile, I don't understand how ENFPs seem cult leader-y. Ne brainstorms ideas, coming up with new ones. Fi uses one's own feelings and emotions to navigate the world. Te bosses people around, I guess...

Anyway, I can see how ENFJs could attract more people than an ENFP. Fe-Se is, in my eyes, more convincing, better at reading peoples' emotions, actually understanding emotions, and foreseeing how their missions will go forward. So why are the ENFPs Ne-Fi-Te considered the "cult leaders"?

Not meaningto bash on ENFPs, if it came across that way. I like them.

 

[Qlip]

I've never heard of ENFPs being labeled as cult leaders. I mean, we have our charms, but keeping of followers is not one of them. I think most ENFPs would feel the prospect as being too restrictive, and wouldn't have the skill to begin with. Unbridled Ne and Fi has a pretty clueless quality to it, and is more advantageous in one on one scenarios.

ENFJs are more known mass charisma.

 

[ceecee]

ENFP's....no. I can't see it. Plus they don't even seem to have an interest in moving people in that fashion. I'm also laughing about my two ENFP friends - they have a hard time getting their dogs to follow them. ENFJ's - no doubt about it. I occasionally tell my husband to not get all Jonestown on anyone when he's being persuasive.

 

[á´…eparted]

I'm really adept at public speaking, getting people to "fall in love" with me, and general crowd pleasing and crowd hearing. It's more or less natural.

Of course though, not everyone falls under my "spell". I almost never use it for ill gain.

ENFJ's - no doubt about it. I occasionally tell my husband to not get all Jonestown on anyone when he's being persuasive.

HA! It's a thing .

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I'm really adept at public speaking, getting people to "fall in love" with me, and general crowd pleasing and crowd hearing. It's more or less natural.

Of course though, not everyone falls under my "spell". I almost never use it for ill gain.

So, if I have always had natural talent like that and secretly thought I could be a cult leader if I ever wanted to be, does that make more likely to be a ENFJ than a INFJ?

I do get off a bit on the energy of the audience and lulling them with persuasion and emotions and seeing them be visibly moved by my words.

 

[Forever_Jung]

Yeah, I don't really control much, it's more like I add fuel to different fires, and let someone else worry about the house burning down.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I don't think most people could keep up when trying to follow an ENFP. Most keep up while skipping on stones across the rivers, some keep going for the magic carpet ride, but the cartwheels on the power lines is where it usually goes awry.

Wheeeeeee!

 

[Dreamer]

Yeah, I don't really control much, it's more like I add fuel to different fires, and let someone else worry about the house burning down.

I was just thinking about this the other day, and what it means to be an extrovert and outgoing as an ENFP versus the other extroverted types. ENFPs can be pegged as the life of the party in some descriptions, but I find (for me at least) that I wouldn't necessarily be the one to get things going at a dull party, but add to it once it's started already. In a way, like you mention, adding fuel to fires. I feel I tend to reflect and amplify any energy of a social setting, but starting it and getting it going, the ENFJ is probably the more "cult leader" type of the two.

 

[HongDou]

Anything with the word "leader" in it doesn't naturally align with how I operate.

 

[ai116]

From my knowledge as an enfp we don't like to lead or follow

 

[plastic ciel]

I've never heard of ENFPs being labeled as cult leaders. I mean, we have our charms, but keeping of followers is not one of them. I think most ENFPs would feel the prospect as being too restrictive, and wouldn't have the skill to begin with. Unbridled Ne and Fi has a pretty clueless quality to it, and is more advantageous in one on one scenarios.

ENFJs are more known mass charisma.

The reason I started this thread was because of the idea of super manipulative and charismatic ENFPs. Like Charles Manson, a lot of people think he's ENFP. Also David Koresh. They lead cults. But I was confused about the prospect of Ne-Te users doing that, it seemed more Fe-Se.

 

[plastic ciel]

ENFP's....no. I can't see it. Plus they don't even seem to have an interest in moving people in that fashion. I'm also laughing about my two ENFP friends - they have a hard time getting their dogs to follow them. ENFJ's - no doubt about it. I occasionally tell my husband to not get all Jonestown on anyone when he's being persuasive.

I had to reply to this, because my mother's an INTJ married to my ENFJ dad. Probably useless information, but I haven't heard much about this combo. Anyway, agreeing about the ENFJ thing. They're very persuasive.

 

[plastic ciel]

I don't think most people could keep up when trying to follow an ENFP. Most keep up while skipping on stones across the rivers, some keep going for the magic carpet ride, but the cartwheels on the power lines is where it usually goes awry.

Wheeeeeee!

Assuming Charles Manson is a really, really, really unhealthy ENFP, could that free-spirit nature be part of his/their charm?

 

[Betty Blue]

Another no for ENFP cult leader... ENFJ are naturally adept at maintaing a following and being 'ambassadors'. Look to someone like Russel Brand and his anti austerity speeches... Lots of people have him pegged as ENFP though he is actually much more ENFJ and the cult leaderish label suits him to a T. ENFP's are too hipster to be leaders

 

[cascadeco]

Another no for ENFP cult leader... ENFJ are naturally adept at maintaing a following and being 'ambassadors'. Look to someone like Russel Brand and his anti austerity speeches... Lots of people have him pegged as ENFP though he is actually much more ENFJ and the cult leaderish label suits him to a T. ENFP's are too hipster to be leaders

What about Che Guevera? (certainly a leader? tho not a cult leader)

 

[SearchingforPeace]

What about Che Guevera? (certainly a leader? tho not a cult leader)

Che was mostly a sidekick.... he wasn't very good when he tried to lead...

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Assuming Charles Manson is a really, really, really unhealthy ENFP, could that free-spirit nature be part of his/their charm?

My impression is that he is an ENTP, but possibly sociopathic ENFP? He does jump around rapidly in a Ne-like way and says disturbing, yet philosophical turns of phrases. He did have a weird obsession with warped morality. He was "freeing the souls" of his victims, and he also reenacted the crucifixion out on his compound in the wilderness, so I guess there could be some Fi in there, but it also always seemed like a game to him.

It always amazes me the wide range of possibilities within each personality type, so anything is possible.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

What about Che Guevera? (certainly a leader? tho not a cult leader)

How accurate is the movie in representing him? I could actually see INFP before ENFP based on that film.

 

[Betty Blue]

What about Che Guevera? (certainly a leader? tho not a cult leader)

Well idk about leader, he actually seems more of a follower but he broke off from Castro and enlisted the help of others on his quests because he disagreed with his ideals... he felt they erred to much from the beaten path of communism. He later became completely disillusioned ... I honestly do not think he was the leader type... though he did have plenty of followers... he never really played to the audience but followed his own ideals. I'm not sure about his type though tbh... I have only read one book on him and seen a single documentary and ofc these can be heavily biased accounts. He certainly was an idealist though.

 

[chubber]

There is this argument that Hitler was an ENFP. So I could buy it. I don't know why ENFJs always get the blame.