[INFP] Flavors of INFP: Enneagram

[Frosty]

No wonder I seem like a Thinker half the time. My wing is 5. That explains so much and sheds a whole new light on who I am. A whole new level of self-awareness and understanding has been reached. Thank you for that concise explanation of the Enneagrams [MENTION=24643]Frosty6226[/MENTION]

Actually that was me just attempting self ascribe some sort of clear 1 to 1 correlation. Multiple functions can correspond with multiple enneagrams.

Probably

E1: Te in primary/auxilary>Fe in primary/auxilary> other types. So J types in general.

E2: Fe primary/auxilary> EXFP's> other types.

E3: Extroverts. More likely types without Fe primary. Se>=Ne. Te in between.

E4: Fi doms and/including idealists.

E5: Introverted thinking types. INTP>=INTJ>=ISTP>ISTJ>=ENTP

E6: IS(f)(j). Si>Ti>=Fi

E7: Pe>Je. ENP>ESP>=ENJ>ESJ

E8: Se/Ni. Fi/Te Fi/Te Fi/Te

E9: Introverts. F>=T

Long drawn out explanations are next to be put under spoilers.

Pi vs Ji in these types flavors them very differently imo- almost separating them into different distinctions- that I can't quite explain clearly rn.

 

[Luigi]

Actually that was me just attempting self ascribe some sort of clear 1 to 1 correlation. Multiple functions can correspond with multiple enneagrams.

Probably

E1: Te in primary/auxilary>Fe in primary/auxilary> other types. So J types in general.

E2: Fe primary/auxilary> EXFP's> other types.

E3: Extroverts. More likely types without Fe primary. Se>=Ne. Te in between.

E4: Fi doms and/including idealists.

E5: Introverted thinking types. INTP>=INTJ>=ISTP>ISTJ>=ENTP

E6: IS(f)(j). Si>Ti>=Fi

E7: Pe>Je. ENP>ESP>=ENJ>ESJ

E8: Se/Ni. Fi/Te Fi/Te Fi/Te

E9: Introverts. F>=T

Long drawn out explanations are next to be put under spoilers.

Yeah on the longer Enneagram Tri-Type test I got 4w5, 5w4, and 9w1. Maybe that's a very peacemaker tendency combined with my relationship with inferior Te.

 

[uumlau]

As Frosty6226 noted, there is no pure 1 to 1 of Enneagram to Jungian functions. If there were, it would be called "Jungiagram"

There are of course overlaps and synchronicities, but the typologies are typing two very different psychological properties. Jung's typology is about cognition, how you think, how you process things. Enneagram is instead based on coping mechanisms, which in turn point to unconscious emotions that haven't been addressed.

The strongest correlation between the two that I've seen is INTPs being over 50% likely to be type 5s.

One of our members compiled some statistics (based on another forum) into this:

So reading this left to right,

Fi doms tend to be type 4.
Ti doms tend to be type 5.
Ni doms tend to be all over the place but seem to AVOID type 7.
Si doms tend to be type 6.
Ne and Se doms tend to be type 7.
Fe doms tend to be type 2.
Te doms tend to be type 8, 3, 6 and 1.

So no major obvious patterns here for mapping functions to Enneagram or vice versa.

 

[Luigi]

As Frosty6226 noted, there is no pure 1 to 1 of Enneagram to Jungian functions. If there were, it would be called "Jungiagram"

There are of course overlaps and synchronicities, but the typologies are typing two very different psychological properties. Jung's typology is about cognition, how you think, how you process things. Enneagram is instead based on coping mechanisms, which in turn point to unconscious emotions that haven't been addressed.

Interesting stuff. MBTI can really only tell us so much though. It doesn't provide a solid understanding of the entire person, only some of them.
I liken it to a physical body: MBTI is the skeleton, and the personality itself is the organs.

 

[Hawthorne]

Fi doms tend to be type 4.
Ti doms tend to be type 5.
Ni doms tend to be all over the place but seem to AVOID type 7.
Si doms tend to be type 6.
Ne and Se doms tend to be type 7.
Fe doms tend to be type 2.
Te doms tend to be type 8, 3, 6 and 1.

So no major obvious patterns here for mapping functions to Enneagram or vice versa.

Why do the Te doms have to influence and control so much? I think something needs to be done about this.

Serious, still somewhat on topic question: Do you think there are situations where these correlations can mask someone's true Etype? Do you (or anyone else) think more weight should be given to combinations that fit these relationships or should funky combos be left as they are? I'm more curious about the thoughts than the answers for this.

 

[uumlau]

Serious, still somewhat on topic question: Do you think there are situations where these correlations can mask someone's true Etype?

Yes. All the time. Similar personalities can have very different typological "skeletons" underneath.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes. All the time. Similar personalities can have very different typological "skeletons" underneath.

Could you expound on this topic more? I'm very curious to know what you think.

 

[Luigi]

[MENTION=23915]Sinclair[/MENTION]
I think you answered the question in the question itself: Te doms have to influence and control because that's their nature. I think the idea of no control, especially them having no control over anything, would make them feel as if they had no meaning in life.

What type of correlations masking a true Etype? How would it be confused that a correlation is not actually there for a person? What sort of funky combos are you talking about?
Just trying to figure this out before I would be able to give any original feedback of my own.

 

[Hawthorne]

[MENTION=23915]Sinclair[/MENTION]
I think you answered the question in the question itself: Te doms have to influence and control because that's their nature. I think the idea of no control, especially them having no control over anything, would make them feel as if they had no meaning in life.

What type of correlations masking a true Etype? How would it be confused that a correlation is not actually there for a person? What sort of funky combos are you talking about?
Just trying to figure this out before I would be able to give any original feedback of my own.

I met a pretty interesting combo recently: an ENTJ 9w8. He said that he sees himself as conflict avoidant because they're usually not worth the effort of resolving or just temporary disturbances that fix themselves without his input. "Taking control " was only done in downward spiraling or hopeless situations where a positive outcome was important. Another interesting one was an ISFP 8w7 but I didn't get to ask her many questions so I couldn't confirm much. There's also a local ENFJ 1w2 with an interesting story of his own.

I do note that they all have stereotypical wing types though.

But I frequently see situations where, for example, on another forum an INFP was being questioned as a mistype because he strongly identified with 1 and everyone kept telling him to look at 4 instead since "if you're an INFP, you're prettybmuch always going to be a 4". I'm just curious where everyone's thoughts fall on what should get more weight in those situations. And the 1s stress to 4s and 4s grow to 1s thing didn't help either.

 

[Luigi]

As [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] said, I don't think there's a strong connection between Enneagram and MBTI. Your story seems to confirm this, even though it's only three people. I think functions are the best way to go in determining what somebody's type is. Just because their Enneagram is atypical for most people with their type, it doesn't mean they don't have that type themselves.
Variations occur because we are individuals, not caricatures. We are all different and unique.

In my opinion, this is the best function-based MBTI test online that I have taken.
Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

 

[fetus]

What about instinctual variant on MB? Would that make any difference? Like, INFP sp/sx would probably be more withdrawn than a so/sx. I know the variants go with Enneagram, but I'm just posing a question. Even with two 9w1 INFPs, sp/sx and so/sx would appear differently, I think.

 

[Luigi]

What about instinctual variant on MB? Would that make any difference? Like, INFP sp/sx would probably be more withdrawn than a so/sx. I know the variants go with Enneagram, but I'm just posing a question. Even with two 9w1 INFPs, sp/sx and so/sx would appear differently, I think.

That's a good question. I don't think I have the words for all of that lol. I will try to help you with this though.
Regardless of the specific Enneagram or MBTI type, here is a theory I can figure from it all:
So is more likely to be social.
Sx is more likely to be romantic.
Sp is more likely to be very focused with themselves.

- Thank goodness this is all typed so I can edit stuff before it just gets out there -

 

[Hawthorne]

sp almost seems like the natural typing for an e9 especially an INFP.

The two others, especially so- seem like flukes, ie unless natural development is interrupted, they should be much less likely to happen.

I could see an INFP sx 9 being moderately common. Aren't sx 9s supposed to be super into merging with the people and things they feel connected to (emphasizing the abandonment fears)? That could look a lot like an sp 4, maybe?

(Did the other VM go through btw? I had to switch from my phone because it was struggling a lot and that hurt my heart to watch.)

 

[uumlau]

Could you expound on this topic more? I'm very curious to know what you think.

It's fairly simple. If someone is a type 5, it is very easy to end up typing them as an INTJ or especially INTP when in reality it's an ISTJ or INFP or INFJ or even ISFJ or ISFP (notice how the introverts end up as fives, but not so much the extroverts). So when you know someone is a type 5, and you're trying to figure out whether they're INTJ or INTP, you shouldn't forget the other MBTI types that are commonly type 5. Type 5 describes their obsession, and they're probably obviously nerds of some sort or another, but it doesn't describe how they think.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

The clearest description I've seen was from the Common INFP Issues thread here:

Sorry to intrude, but the description of type 5.... F/T border? In an INFP? Who is Fi-first and Te-last....how exactly would that border manifest? Do they mean an INFP can simply swap Fi and Ti? And if so what is the evidence for that? Or...did the person that wrote not even consider cognitive functions and thinks MBTI is all about percentages of letters!?
What so you think? TIA

 

[Forever_Jung]

You wanna talk about INFP 9's? Look at Brian Wilson of The Beach Boys. Dude framed the most heart-breaking, personal songs in sunny California harmonies. When he was younger, he had this pure, sincere, beautiful sort of falsetto, that was simultaneously world-weary and innocent. And when he went off the deep end, it wasn't all cool and romantic like a 4, where they slit their wrists and roses pour out while Morrisey plays in the background. He just ate his way into obesity, and got lost in a weird hazy world of sedatives, sadness, and overly ambitious creative projects. If you see him now, you can see he's cleary damaged and senile, but he still retains a childlike simplicity/profundity.

He wrote gorgeous, upbeat melodies, but then if you listen to the words, you'd hear something like:

I Just Wasn't Made For These Times

Every time I get the inspiration
To go change things around
No one wants to help me look for places
Where new things might be found

Where can I turn when my fair weather friends cop out
What's it all about?

Each time things start to happen again
I think I got something good goin' for myself
But what goes wrong

Sometimes I feel very sad
Sometimes I feel very sad
(Can't find nothin' I can put my heart and soul into)
Sometimes I feel very sad
(Can't find nothin' I can put my heart and soul into)

I guess I just wasn't made for these times
​

INFP's 4's are darkly romantic, and kind of abrasive. They can be very nice people, but you never get the sense that they're "people-pleasers" or naively optimistic. You also worry that your favourite 4 musicians might kill themselves, or they at least find suicide to be artistically fascinating. Think of like Morrisey, Fiona Apple, Nick Drake.

I also think INFP 4's are more likely to dress well, or at least originally. Whereas INFP 9's seem more frumpy and interested in comfort. They tend to have a plainer appearance, I think. But I'm not crazy about focusing on appearance, when it comes to personality.

 

[Hawthorne]

Sorry to intrude, but the description of type 5.... F/T border? In an INFP? Who is Fi-first and Te-last....how exactly would that border manifest? Do they mean an INFP can simply swap Fi and Ti? And if so what is the evidence for that? Or...did the person that wrote not even consider cognitive functions and thinks MBTI is all about percentages of letters!?
What so you think? TIA

I agree that the wording is iffy but I think I understand the OPs meaning. There is definitely a brand of INFP dreamers who fall toward esoteric intellectualism but also clearly prefer Fi above all else and because of that interest are likely to mistype as INTP or INTJ.

I would guess they are the rarer sort though.

 

[GreatBigCranberries]

Sorry to intrude, but the description of type 5.... F/T border? In an INFP? Who is Fi-first and Te-last....how exactly would that border manifest? Do they mean an INFP can simply swap Fi and Ti? And if so what is the evidence for that? Or...did the person that wrote not even consider cognitive functions and thinks MBTI is all about percentages of letters!?
What so you think? TIA

You know how some personality type tests give you percentages of how much you are E or I, N or S, F or T, J or P? As though those things exist on a scale rather than as functions. The quote said type 5s might test close to F/T border, not that Te isn't still the inferior function. It might mean in practise that type 5s try to use their inferior more often, but I think it's actually more about using Fi with a stronger analytical focus, which can be more easily mistaken for Ti.


...I think? Maybe.

 

[Seymour]

Sorry to intrude, but the description of type 5.... F/T border? In an INFP? Who is Fi-first and Te-last....how exactly would that border manifest? Do they mean an INFP can simply swap Fi and Ti? And if so what is the evidence for that? Or...did the person that wrote not even consider cognitive functions and thinks MBTI is all about percentages of letters!?
What so you think? TIA

First of all, that was me.

Secondly, I was careful to express it as testing close to the F/T border.

Thirdly, (even though I didn't think so at the time) there's no empirical evidence for type dynamics yet solid evidence that preference strength matters.

My personal feeling is that enneagram type (and the associated unhealthy coping mechanism) can effectively push one a little "out of true" as far as the expression of MBTI type goes. Hence, a type 1, for example, will tend to come across as more Judging, while a type 4 is likely to come across as more Feeling. Sometimes the effect of MBTI type reinforces MBTI preferences, in other cases (and perhaps more distressingly for the individual), it shifts one away from one's natural preferences.

What do you think?

 

[GreatBigCranberries]

First of all, that was me.

Secondly, I was careful to express it as testing close to the F/T border.

Thirdly, (even though I didn't think so at the time) there's no empirical evidence for type dynamics yet solid evidence that preference strength matters.

My personal feeling is that enneagram type (and the associated unhealthy coping mechanism) can effectively push one a little "out of true" as far as the expression of MBTI type goes. Hence, a type 1, for example, will tend to come across as more Judging, while a type 4 is likely to come across as more Feeling. Sometimes the effect of MBTI type reinforces MBTI preferences, in other cases (and perhaps more distressingly for the individual), it shifts one away from one's natural preferences.

What do you think?

I think enneagram might have more to do with how you use your preferences, or what you use them for, rather than shifting those preferences themselves.