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[INFP] Flavors of INFP: Enneagram

Luigi

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By these definitions, I've been in an Fi-Si loop most of my life lol

I really like your space pictures; they're awesome. Also, welcome to the beautiful INFP club.

Perhaps why several people here have suggested ISFJ for me...

I really like xSFJs for the most part. So if you are one, you're still awesome in my figurative book.
 

uumlau

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You solve this just by recognizing that you must be one of those special little swans that just took an extra long time to identify that they- and they alone- are the *transcendent* function users.

Actually though, I would love to crack the transcendent functjon- but I think it might require a masters thesis worth of work so for now I will just make fun of it.

Everyone is a "transcendent function user", because everyone has a dominant and inferior function. (and aux and tert, but let's not complicate things)

The transcendent function is more of a process than a result. It is the tension between opposites and how it plays out in oneself. Some people handle it well, and some people handle it poorly.

The Tao Te Ching describes it this way:

2

When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever.

The main difference as it plays out in people is how conscious they are of the dichotomy: that they need both sides of the dichotomy, and not outright reject one or the other.
 

Luigi

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Everyone is a "transcendent function user", because everyone has a dominant and inferior function. (and aux and tert, but let's not complicate things)

The transcendent function is more of a process than a result. It is the tension between opposites and how it plays out in oneself. Some people handle it well, and some people handle it poorly.

The Tao Te Ching describes it this way:



The main difference as it plays out in people is how conscious they are of the dichotomy: that they need both sides of the dichotomy, and not outright reject one or the other.

Really cool piece of poetry. It's like the Ying/Yang concept, right?
 

Frosty

Poking the poodle
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I
Everyone is a "transcendent function user", because everyone has a dominant and inferior function. (and aux and tert, but let's not complicate things)

The transcendent function is more of a process than a result. It is the tension between opposites and how it plays out in oneself. Some people handle it well, and some people handle it poorly.

The Tao Te Ching describes it this way:



The main difference as it plays out in people is how conscious they are of the dichotomy: that they need both sides of the dichotomy, and not outright reject one or the other.

Well yeah, but the way that it is being described is pretty much that it is a natural state- one that for all intents and purposes strips the person of their dominant function- and replaces it with a conglomeration of whatever can can momentarily satisfy.

It pretty much seems to naturally go against everything that Jung was trying to initially set up, that all functions axuilary and beyond are just resources to *flavor* the primary. Its very existance- speaks to some sort of holistic understanding of type- seporating it from all distinction, and pretty much collapsing it upon itself.

Enneagram, the type 9 if you are going to try to relate it to the transendent function- is more about motivation and behavior than cognitive processing. Therefore I guess there could be some sort of correllation- making the transcendent funtion meaningless in and of itself.

Absolutely this is a process that heppens in everyone... But shouldn't it maybe be tied to factors that might arguably not be innate... Like the health of the person, blah blah, instead of something as concrete as a description of its very own function?

I didn't really read the article thoroughly so... Maybe it isn't placing itself within the exact same context/performance. I'll go do that- tomorrow though. I like what I have written so far,- even if it doesn't reflect actuality- structure can be added later to make it make sense, try to now and it will be conjested.
 

uumlau

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Really cool piece of poetry. It's like the Ying/Yang concept, right?

Yes.

The point is that for something to have some sort of characteristic, that opens up the possibility of things having the opposite characteristic.

Interestingly, this plays out in physics, also: the existence of electrons implies the existence of positrons (anti-electrons). What is a positron? It's effectively an electron traveling backwards in time!
 

Luigi

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I taste more like licorice, I think.

I never thought of the entire "flavor" concept so literally. In that case, I think I taste like white chocolate. :D

Yes.

The point is that for something to have some sort of characteristic, that opens up the possibility of things having the opposite characteristic.

Interestingly, this plays out in physics, also: the existence of electrons implies the existence of positrons (anti-electrons). What is a positron? It's effectively an electron traveling backwards in time!

That sounds so fascinating. I love how nature values maintaining equilibrium and a harmonious balance. Maybe it's looking out for us. Such a beautiful idea.
 

Forever

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Even though this is an INFP thread, I think this helped me find out if I was a 9 or not. :blush:
I usually tend to ignore my emotions instead of continually working on them.
 

PeaceBaby

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Even though this is an INFP thread, I think this helped me find out if I was a 9 or not. :blush:
I usually tend to ignore my emotions instead of continually working on them.

Actually, your emotions work on you, not the other way around. Another paradox.

-----------------------------



Instinctual subtypes are going to make a very big difference as well, perhaps even moreso than e type itself. An INFP sp dom and sx dom will feel very different than the so dom. Social dominance runs counter-type in orientation to enneagram 9 and somewhat counter-type to identifying as INFP. It was the piece of the puzzle I had been missing in trying to understand why I was wired so outwardly.
 

Forever

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Actually, your emotions work on you, not the other way around. Another paradox.

-----------------------------

Instinctual subtypes are going to make a very big difference as well, perhaps even moreso than e type itself. An INFP sp dom and sx dom will feel very different than the so dom. Social dominance runs counter-type in orientation to enneagram 9 and somewhat counter-type to identifying as INFP. It was the piece of the puzzle I had been missing in trying to understand why I was wired so outwardly.

Well then I don't let my emotions work on me then. :p But I would agree with that.

I'm taking this from a site (I hope it may help those who are deciding on 9):

1. I often feel in union with nature and people. <- True, sometimes more with nature than people sometimes.

2. Making choices can be very difficult. I can see the advantages and disadvantages of every option. <-True, true.

3. It is sometimes hard for me to know what I want when I’m with other people. <- I don't know actually. lol

4. Others see me as peaceful, but inside I often feel anxious. <- I think people definitely KNOW when I'm anxious and that makes more of an F (because of Fe instead of Fi), they start walking further away from me.

5. Instead of tackling what I really need to do, I sometimes do little, unimportant things. <- Lol like.. right now? :)

6. When there is unpleasantness going on around me, I just try to think about something else for a while. <- Yeah

7. I usually prefer walking away from a disagreement to confronting someone. <-Yes and no, it alternates.

8. If I don’t have some routine and structure to my day, I get almost nothing done. <- Maybe? Seems correct.

9. I tend to put things off until the last minute, but I almost always get them done. <-Lol yup

10. I like to be calm and unhurried, but sometimes I overextend myself. <- Yes

11. When people try to tell me what to do or try to control me, I get stubborn. <-Oh ho yes.

12. I like to be sure to have time in my day for relaxing. <- Like a necessity, almost.

13. Sometimes I feel shy and unsure of myself. <- Yes, but that's from absorption of others emotions too.

14. I enjoy just hanging out with my partner or friends. <- Yes. Idk how this couldn't happen in other types as well?

15. Supportive and harmonious relationships are very important to me. <- Definitely.

16. I am very sensitive about being judged and take criticism personally. <- Very so.

17. I like to listen and give people support. <- Mhm. Sometimes. Lol.

18. I focus more on the positive than on the negative. <-I try to. :D

19. I have trouble getting rid of things. <- Lol.. yeah but I then going into all out streaks of like elimination of pointless stuff.

20. I operate under the principle of inertia: If I’m going, it’s easy to keep going, but I sometimes have a hard time getting started. <- Wow. Yeah.
 

uumlau

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As an INTJ 9, let me point out which parts of being a 9 are "cruft" from being conflated with INFJ, ISFJ, ISFP, INFP, etc.

Well then I don't let my emotions work on me then. :p But I would agree with that.

I'm taking this from a site (I hope it may help those who are deciding on 9)
:
1. I often feel in union with nature and people. <- True, sometimes more with nature than people sometimes.
I don't.

2. Making choices can be very difficult. I can see the advantages and disadvantages of every option. <-True, true.
Most choices are easy for me. Choices dealing with intimate relationships is much more difficult.

3. It is sometimes hard for me to know what I want when I’m with other people. <- I don't know actually. lol
I know exactly what I want. The hard part was realizing that what I really wanted wasn't what I thought I wanted.

4. Others see me as peaceful, but inside I often feel anxious. <- I think people definitely KNOW when I'm anxious and that makes more of an F (because of Fe instead of Fi), they start walking further away from me.
People see me as competent, but inside I often feel anxious.

5. Instead of tackling what I really need to do, I sometimes do little, unimportant things. <- Lol like.. right now? :)
Me, too.

Fortunately, I've lucked out so much on the "competence" scale, I can goof off a lot and still get a lot more done than most other people in my position.

Also, the ability to goof off appears to be essential to staying sane and maintaining quality. If I focused on just getting things "done", I'd not have spent the time just thinking about things and realizing that I'd missed something important.

6. When there is unpleasantness going on around me, I just try to think about something else for a while. <- Yeah
When there is unpleasantness going on around me, I tell them to go away. ;)

If they don't go away, then my "w8" comes out. I do not suffer bullies gladly. Especially as an INTJ.

7. I usually prefer walking away from a disagreement to confronting someone. <-Yes and no, it alternates.
Yes. Only the most important disagreements get my attention. Not because I fear the confrontation, but because I've learned to read when someone simply won't be convinced. If they won't be convinced, AND it is important, then I escalate things such that the person who won't be convinced is no longer a problem.

8. If I don’t have some routine and structure to my day, I get almost nothing done. <- Maybe? Seems correct.
This contradicts the fact that many ISFPs and INFPs identify as type 9. This may be the ISFJ/INFJ side.

As an INTJ, I don't need "routine and structure" to get things done. I just do them. Why do people need a song and dance to get things done?

9. I tend to put things off until the last minute, but I almost always get them done. <-Lol yup
Almost always true, but not the things having to do with my primary responsibilities for my job. It's more along the lines of, if there is something that I really don't want to do (because it is annoying/unpleasant, such as filling out paperwork) then I'll put it off.

10. I like to be calm and unhurried, but sometimes I overextend myself. <- Yes
I rarely overextend myself. I know what I'm capable of, and I will tell people point blank when their expectations of me are unrealistic.

11. When people try to tell me what to do or try to control me, I get stubborn. <-Oh ho yes.
It depends. If they tell me to do what I was going to do anyway, I just do it. If they tell me to do something and it isn't a huge deal, I do it. If they start bullying me, my "w8" comes out. As an INTJ, I don't let people micromanage me.

12. I like to be sure to have time in my day for relaxing. <- Like a necessity, almost.
This is the case for all introverts, and almost all type 9s are introverts.

13. Sometimes I feel shy and unsure of myself. <- Yes, but that's from absorption of others emotions too.
*sigh* INTROVERTS.

IN
TRO
VERTS

*sigh*

This isn't a "type 9" thing.

14. I enjoy just hanging out with my partner or friends. <- Yes. Idk how this couldn't happen in other types as well?
No one I know enjoys just hanging out with their partner or friends.

:dry:

15. Supportive and harmonious relationships are very important to me. <- Definitely.
Meh.

Relationships that involve an actual connection with the other person are important to me. Supportive and harmonious are secondary attributes, at best.

16. I am very sensitive about being judged and take criticism personally. <- Very so.
INTJs don't do that shit. And those that do pretend that they don't. ;)

17. I like to listen and give people support. <- Mhm. Sometimes. Lol.
Most of the time, for me, actually. INTJs love to be experts and pontificate about their expertise. It SOUNDS arrogant and self-important, but it's the INTJ way of helping people. That's why we end up in high-end technical consulting jobs, because that's about the only arena in which one can get away with being helpful AND sounding arrogant and self-important. ;)

18. I focus more on the positive than on the negative. <-I try to. :D
Mostly. The lesson for 9s is to focus on the negative to see what we can learn from it.

19. I have trouble getting rid of things. <- Lol.. yeah but I then going into all out streaks of like elimination of pointless stuff.
Um, no. I'm lazy about getting rid of things, but when push comes to shove, poof, they're gone.

20. I operate under the principle of inertia: If I’m going, it’s easy to keep going, but I sometimes have a hard time getting started. <- Wow. Yeah.
This one is pretty true for me, too. In a weird way, that makes things easy. Decide to start and then start, and THEN it's easy after that.


Anyway, I hope this helps ...
 

Forever

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As an INTJ 9, let me point out which parts of being a 9 are "cruft" from being conflated with INFJ, ISFJ, ISFP, INFP, etc.



Anyway, I hope this helps ...

Yeah, now I know I'm even further away from an INTJ. Lol ;)
 

fetus

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I really like your space pictures; they're awesome. Also, welcome to the beautiful INFP club.



I really like xSFJs for the most part. So if you are one, you're still awesome in my figurative book.

Oh, I know! They're awesome. I just know that I'm Fi/Ne over Si/Fe by functions, and there's *no way* I'm a J by dichotomies. :)
 

Luigi

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Yay, you are one of us! :D Welcome! :hi:
 

uumlau

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Actually, your emotions work on you, not the other way around. Another paradox.

Eeen Sowiet Rrrusshia, you don't feeel emotions, emotions feel YOU!
 

Frosty

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I do wonder if e9 does correlate with ace ability at using the 'transcendent' function.

E1- Te correlation
E2-Fe
E3-Ni
E4-Fi
E5-Ti
E6-Si
E7-Ne
E8-Se
E9- ~transcendent function~(Conglomeration of percieving and judging functions within self to make difficult to distinguish)

How does 'tritype' fit into INFP.

Most seem to be 4X9's- so double withdrawn at the very least, possibly contributing to early development of sp or sx primary. So what happens to make INFP's whodifferentiate- differentiate?
 

Luigi

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I do wonder if e9 does correlate with ace ability at using the 'transcendent' function.

E1- Te correlation
E2-Fe
E3-Ni
E4-Fi
E5-Ti
E6-Si
E7-Ne
E8-Se
E9- ~transcendent function~(Conglomeration of percieving and judging functions within self to make difficult to distinguish)

How does 'tritype' fit into INFP.

Most seem to be 4X9's- so double withdrawn at the very least, possibly contributing to early development of sp or sx primary. So what happens to make INFP's whodifferentiate- differentiate?

No wonder I seem like a Thinker half the time. My wing is 5. That explains so much and sheds a whole new light on who I am. A whole new level of self-awareness and understanding has been reached. Thank you for that concise explanation of the Enneagrams [MENTION=24643]Frosty6226[/MENTION]
 
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