[ENFP] Rose Tinted Glasses?

[Qlip]

In my study of ENFPs I've noticed a couple of anecdotal data points don't at first glance seem to jive. The first is the stereotype that ENFPs have their heads in the clouds and are fragile and ineffective creatures because they are woefully out of touch with reality. The second is the frequent reports of people saying that ENFPs are incredibly pragmatic and ruthless at times.

Which is true? Or do they co-exist, and how?

I have my own understanding on the matter, but I really want to hear from others.

 

[Qlip]

It seems to me that they can be pragmatic and ruthless in protecting their own view of reality. They can be quite hostile to anything, or anyone, that bursts their bubble.

That's close to my thoughts, but very negatively cast. You must have had/witnessed bad experiences with my ilk.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

That's close to my thoughts, but very negatively cast. You must have had/witnessed bad experiences with my ilk.

I just feel like they don't understand why anyone would reject their take on things or their approach to life. They present an idea or a life philosophy to me, and if I don't accept it, they react as though I'm attacking their character, or as though I'm a terrible person. But I'm not the one telling them what to do or how they should live their life. They act as though my purpose in life as a 5 is for me to reaffirm their view of the world, and prevent them from being disillusioned, and if I don't want to do that, I'm selfish.

I'm stubborn on some things because trying to be more yielding just doesn't work.

 

[Qlip]

I just feel like they don't understand why anyone would reject their take on things or their approach to life. They present an idea or a life philosophy to me, and if I don't accept it, they react as though I'm attacking their character, or as though I'm a terrible person.

I think that ENFP or many Fs without much experience with Thinkers or who have had the luxury with not having their world view challenged may not understand what your purpose is and interpret it with what they do know, which is, as you said, you deflating their world view. NT's tend to do this with glee, so it's easy to equate joy to malice, which seems very much a reasonable interpretation. Just a theory.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think that ENFP or many Fs without much experience with Thinkers or who have had the luxury with not having their world view challenged may not understand what your purpose is and interpret it with what they do know, which is, as you said, you deflating their world view. NT's tend to do this with glee, so it's easy to equate joy to malice, which seems very much a reasonable interpretation. Just a theory.

I have a right to pursue my own satisfaction in life, the same as you do. I have no issue with letting you guys do whatever they hell it is you want to do, as long as you leave NTs to do what they want to do. Instead, you want the NTs to change to fit your own ideal vision of how things should be, and that's what I find off-putting. You're asking NTs, INTs especially, to violate something that is core to their being.

I'm not a nut you can crack and then forget about once you've figured out what motivates me. I'm a human being with my own desires and hopes for the future. I have as much of a right to them as you do. If that's an entitled attitude, then I don't mind being entitled.

 

[Frosty]

I don't really think that NT's do it to be deliberately malicious any more than ENFP's deliberately set out to come across as... Morally outraged-emotionally charged/vindictive. It would seem just a natural state of being, NT's coming across as insensitive, NF's defending themselves against the percieved insensitivity, and around it circles.


I think many ENFP's do have a sort of airy practicality that sort of fluxuates with what point in lfe they happen to be in, they might be more likely to be even more affected by their outward environments than other types. They see the possibilities... And while an INFP might be contented with perhaps a... More mentally contained version, might find it easier to engage themselves, an ENFP more than likely has a harder time with this, as their focus is more on the external- and not even the directly external like an ESFP, but the possibilities bouyed off the external, that tend to be dissapointingly tied down by a... More hive minded practical world. So the ENFP probably can seem both practical and flighty, a push and pull sort of deal. The ideas come, and after a while the ENFP finds their own ways... Which grow more secure and practiced, to extend then for themselves- but the beginning is the real ride- again and again.

Have to come back to this, my boss wants to work my bones off. Need sleep

 

[Qlip]

I have a right to pursue my own satisfaction in life, the same as you do. I have no issue with letting you guys do whatever they hell it is you want to do, as long as you leave NTs to do what they want to do. Instead, you want the NTs to change to fit your own ideal vision of how things should be, and that's what I find off-putting. You're asking NTs, INTs especially, to violate something that is core to their being.

I'm not a nut you can crack and then forget about once you've figured out what motivates me. I'm a human being with my own desires and hopes for the future. I have as much of a right to them as you do. If that's an entitled attitude, then I don't mind being entitled.

No offense intended Vulcan, but I think your difficulties with ENFPs may well be illustrated here. I was positing an explanation for your consideration, as an abstract and you are using very personal language, which ends up also casting me in this scenario as the antagonist in also a personal way. It's really hard not to get a personal response from this. There's no doubt that some of us are touchy, but this sort of tone will rile up something the most even tempered of us.

 

[fetus]

I've always seen the ENFP stereotype as some super bubbly, relentlessly optimistic manic pixie dream girl who can't stand boredom, and quenches the thirst for newness by putting flowers in her hair and holding up signs at a gay pride parade. (Nothing wrong with pride parades, though.)

I thought the INFP stereotype was the one with the hopeless, tortured poet with no sense of reality or emotional stability, and spends all her time crying, smelling roses, and reading Sylvia Plath.

Damn stereotypes. It really depends on the person. Type is a wide blanket.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No offense intended Vulcan, but I think your difficulties with ENFPs may well be illustrated here. I was positing an explanation for your consideration, as an abstract and you are using very personal language, which ends up also casting me in this scenario as the antagonist in also a personal way. It's really hard not to get a personal response from this. There's no doubt that some of us are touchy, but this sort of tone will rile up something the most even tempered of us.

I feel as though you want something from me, and I'm not sure what that is. I don't think we can really have a productive conversation about this, so maybe we should just drop it?

 

[Qlip]

I feel as though you want something from me, and I'm not sure what that is. I don't think we can really have a productive conversation about this, so maybe we should just drop it?

I have always been plain spoken. Civil and productive discussion of the thread topic is all I want, thank you.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I have always been plain spoken. Civil and productive discussion of the thread topic is all I want, thank you.

I explained my position already. You seemed dissatisfied with it, but didn't really prove me wrong. I'm going to have to ask you to stop.

 

[Qlip]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], or any mods listening in, can I get some of this chaff cleared up here, I feel like a lot of this is off topic. Use your best judgement. Please?

EDIT: I see one member was kind enough to remove their OT post. Thanks.

[Satisfactorily resolved]

 

[Qlip]

What I've discovered, in my time as being an ENFP is that Ne gathers large amounts of data. I have a very hard time believing that any ENFP with a sufficient amount of life experience is naive by any measure. But when it comes time for ENFP to navigate or create change in the world, it is always Ne-Fi oriented, a rather nebulous and chameleon combo. We move about by attuning ourselves to that which we would like to be closer to, by changing the color of our glasses, so as to say. This doesn't contradict that we have a pretty deep understanding of how the world works. Many of us want things to be good and bright and rosy, but that has a lot to do with e7 being the majority of the ENFP demographic.

 

[Dreamer]

I just feel like they don't understand why anyone would reject their take on things or their approach to life. They present an idea or a life philosophy to me, and if I don't accept it, they react as though I'm attacking their character, or as though I'm a terrible person. But I'm not the one telling them what to do or how they should live their life. They act as though my purpose in life as a 5 is for me to reaffirm their view of the world, and prevent them from being disillusioned, and if I don't want to do that, I'm selfish.

I'm stubborn on some things because trying to be more yielding just doesn't work.

I notice that about myself the more I look into my personality type and just reflect on how I perceive things. (The taking things personally bit) It does annoy me too to be honest since it has caused me way more conflict and stress than it should over the years, and I do tend to take things personally much more easily than what I feel should be normal. The thing is though, it's not with everything. I can be very self-critical and objective of my artwork or anything I produce really, so others can be as critical as they want and I won't be phased by it, but if someone has a different viewpoint than I do when it comes to big life type issues or how one lives and sees the world, just subtle use in wording or tone in voice can instantly feel like an attack on me.

I think a lot of these sorts of issues just has to do with my taking in information and processing things so heavily based on emotion, so when I come to a conclusion or make a decision, it was based on my feelings for something rather than having come to it based on facts or anything logical. "Attacking", or really, disagreeing with that viewpoint, can instantly feel like a personal attack since that stance was taken with an emotional response, and almost feels like my emotions weren't valid and I'm left confused. I can usually approach the issue with a level head after I take a breather or calm down, but my immediate response usually has me feeling hurt and attacked.

I'm still figuring my type out to be honest, but I've noticed that about myself for some time (tying emotion into basically everything I do).

 

[marblecake1810]

In my study of ENFPs I've noticed a couple of anecdotal data points don't at first glance seem to jive. The first is the stereotype that ENFPs have their heads in the clouds and are fragile and ineffective creatures because they are woefully out of touch with reality. The second is the frequent reports of people saying that ENFPs are incredibly pragmatic and ruthless at times.

Which is true? Or do they co-exist, and how?

I have my own understanding on the matter, but I really want to hear from others.

Both are true.
I've often been told that I live in my own little idealistic bubble and truth to be told, I'm perfectly happy that way. But if someone tries to force me out of this bubble, that forces out the uglier side of my personality where I can be quite ruthless.

 

[senza tema]

I'm not an ENFP but I'm close enough so ...

I used to think of myself as a realist but it's closer to the truth to say that I'm idealistic enough to be inured to disappointment. I have impossible standards; I know these will never be met because the world just doesn't work that way but that isn't a good enough reason to abandon them.

I think ENFPs have a slightly more positive outlook than me in general, but the whole separation of "truth" from "reality" or "success" is probably something we have in common.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

In my study of ENFPs I've noticed a couple of anecdotal data points don't at first glance seem to jive. The first is the stereotype that ENFPs have their heads in the clouds and are fragile and ineffective creatures because they are woefully out of touch with reality. The second is the frequent reports of people saying that ENFPs are incredibly pragmatic and ruthless at times.

Which is true? Or do they co-exist, and how?

I have my own understanding on the matter, but I really want to hear from others.

I would never say an ENFP was ineffectual. Woefully out of touch? Maybe a very young one. All the ones I know are powerhouses.

Yes, they have their head in the clouds at times. They don't see practicalites because they are big picture peeps. Rose colored glasses help paint over the devils in the details.

Yes, they can be ruthless and pragmatic (when they want to see their ideas materialize quickly - ISTJ shadow?).

So yes. Both.

 

[Forever_Jung]

In my study of ENFPs I've noticed a couple of anecdotal data points don't at first glance seem to jive. The first is the stereotype that ENFPs have their heads in the clouds and are fragile and ineffective creatures because they are woefully out of touch with reality. The second is the frequent reports of people saying that ENFPs are incredibly pragmatic and ruthless at times.

Which is true? Or do they co-exist, and how?

I have my own understanding on the matter, but I really want to hear from others.

I think the rose-tinted thing has more to do with how other people see us. At least in my case. People at work think I believe all my crazy ideas will work out on their own, but it's not a belief in their probability so much as a belief in their possibility. Sure, most of the things I say won't happen, but it's not because I couldn't make them happen, I just don't care enough to follow through. When I really think something is important, I can often make reality conform to my will through sheer level of commitment to my vision, the force of my personality, and extreme resourcefulness.

When my team says there's no way I'll win a race, I'll find a shortcut through a sewer pipe and crawl through human waste to get to the finish line. Of course, since I get there before anyone else, I wash off all the shit, put on a freshly-pressed suit, and pour myself a glass of champagne. When the competition gets there an hour later, I let on like winning was the easiest thing in the world and that I totally didn't wriggle through a kilometre of feces to get to where I am. So then they conclude I was just a naive fool, who got lucky THIS TIME.

I mean I screw up and fail like everyone else, don't get me wrong, but that's what happens when things work out [and they work out more often than most people would expect]. So yes, while my initial vision was wildly optimistic and seemingly naive, the steps I take to make that optimistic vision come true are very real and often require ruthless efficiency. I'm just good at making difficulties look easy.