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[ENFJ] having problems with an ENFJ

ladypinkington

Rubber Nipple Salesperson
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Jul 19, 2007
Messages
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MBTI Type
INFJ
does anyone else experience frustrations with enfj's?

my husband and I are going through a really hard time with an enfj relationship we have.

there is a woman who is like a second mother to us-she has adopted us in a way-emotionally not legally- she says that my husband and I are a priority but doesn't show it in my opinion. she treats us the same as everyone else and everyone else the same as us but tells us we are more special to her- now it feels like everything she says is superficial
and is full of bull but the thing is I don't think she even realizes it is bull

she treats everyone like they are a priority- and so it ends up that no one is a priority really if that makes sense

she is so spread out that she never has any time to develop our relationship

I am so sick of all the inconsistentcies and broken promises
all of these grand plans that never are followed through with
it is like she gets us excited about all these possibilities but then nothing happens-

there are times in our friendship when we want to just spend time with her and get to know her but there are always so many freaking people around several of which I don't like at all- a lot of frenemies-that we never feel like we really get to know her or her with us

is feels so shallow and superificial

it is hard because she is so loving and kind- to complain to her feels like an asshole thing to do because it feels like it would come across as punishing someone because they are so loving to everyone-

I am impressed with how she can love so many people and is so inclusive- but she is so inclusive that it intrudes on the needed and missed intimacy
and depth

i now question anything she says- compliments and words of affirmation she gives I feel don't have any meaning because I don't feel like they are thoughtfully given- I feel like they are given just to be given to anyone and everyone so it doesn't feel like there is any meaning- it is like she is supportive just because I am human being but not because she knows who I am-it doesn't matter who is sitting in the chair all that matters is there is someone sitting there if that makes sense

I just don't get it and neither does she
we have tried talking to her about these kinds of things before and she appears to understand and acts like she is going to remedy the situation but she doesn't follow through- I don't know if she just tells us what we want to hear because she dislikes conflict or if she is really sincere just so fraking un self aware and out of touch with herself that she makes promises she doesn't even realize she can't keep- out of control idealism that causes cynicism for everyone else as it were

I don't know what to do
if I should say anything and if it would even be worth saying
she seems to forget so easily anything that is outside her world and inner reality- it feel like it is in one ear and out the other but in a bizarre meaning well but unawaredly incapable way
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
Wow... that is EXACTLY what I went through with a best friend of mine..

It ended really badly when she sold me down the river and remained completely oblivious to her offense the whole time like "What? Everything's great, see, I'm smiling and laughing!"

It is sort of a sad thing to see someone like this, because my friend was such a people pleaser that she over-extended herself and was almost drowning in obligations. She could never say no..

I would say something NOW! Be very clear about what is wrong with the situation. Don't give her the opportunity to lay the "You are so special to me, how could you think otherwise?" on you.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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does anyone else experience frustrations with enfj's?

I find myself and my type frustrating frequently.

she treats everyone like they are a priority- and so it ends up that no one is a priority really if that makes sense

she is so spread out that she never has any time to develop our relationship

This is something endemic in the type. Our natural instinct draws us in too many directions. Those closest to us can go neglected if the ENFJ has not learned to say "no" to outside pressures and demands. It took me years to vanquish that urge, and sometimes it still comes on me unawares.

I spend the majority of my time with my closest friends and family. I need to feel close to them and get overwhelmed by outside demands quickly.




I am impressed with how she can love so many people and is so inclusive- but she is so inclusive that it intrudes on the needed and missed intimacy
and depth

She hasn't learned to say no yet.
 

miked277

New member
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INTP
this very topic has been on my mind lately. good timing indeed.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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As a teenager, it helped to have an ENFP twin and ESFP best friend there to slam the door and declare me their property.

I will say this though - when I say I love someone, I mean it. When I say someone is special to me, I mean it.

My ENTJ and INTJ best friends pull disappearing acts sometimes for over a month, and I don't take it personally because I know they still love me and will be back when whatever it is settles down. Funny way of showing they care, I know, but it comes with the territory. I know when they call or come over, they're going to tell me what happened. I know that I'm important to them.

A very close ENTP friend disappeared for over two months. I couldn't reach him. He'd even called me in the hospital, told me that he was coming by to see me even when he was swamped. The 2 month disappearance did hurt me, but when he finally called, he got down on his knees and laid himself open to me. No way was I going to cut him up. I know he loves me and cares about our friendship. Two months gone would say "no" but I know better. He'd take a bullet for me - it doesn't always matter where he is.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Really hate to say it but this kinda comes with the territory when you're dealing with ENFJs. I wouldn't assume she is superficial or empty when she says you all are special to her. So I'm understanding the problem to be that while she says she wants a deeper relationship she's avoiding deepening the relationship which you believe is coming off as insincere.

If you all want to deepen your relationship with her you've got to transition yourselves into her inner circle. I know I closely monitor who I let into my inner circle and she may still be unsure about how to categorize you all, but still open to getting to know you better which is why she still tries to be warm and inviting towards you. She's probably still keeping the lines of communication open because she sees a potential relationship. What do you want to happen with this relationsip/situation? Do you want to move past the politeness and into something deeper?

Man, I really don't see a way around this. She's being generically nice. That's really the nature of Fe to do exactly that, to make people feel special and cared for and it generally extends to everybody who's not on an ENFJ's shitlist. I can see how that behavior would make some people who want to be closer to an ENFJ doubt what the nature of the relationship is. Of course you'd be a better judge of her motives...does she have any reason to be superficial towards you? I want to impress upon you that if she's not evidencing any malice that her actions are more than likely not fake, she's probably expressing her genuine desire to be inclusive.

The times when I've moved past "being nice" towards someone in order to get closer to them I've appreciated the most when I've not been the initiator or pursuer. It's relieving to not have to be the one who's actively connecting with others; when others take the initiative and try to get closer to me. I generally don't have a problem putting myself out there like that, but sometimes you just want to sit back and relax and let other people show their interest. Maybe this is a method you could use with this ENFJ if you want to get closer to her.
 

animenagai

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one of my best friends is an ENFJ. we're a brotherhood of 4 since the beginning of high school and we get along famously. however, i know exactly what you mean about ENFJ's. they treat everyone equally, and within our brotherhood, he is definitely the one who we know the least about. i would be very interested to just jump in his shoes for one day. i think everyone else has to understand that. ENFJ's genuinely care for other people. i wondered if my friend was just putting on a show to meet social expectations too, but then again, why does he put on a show? it's important to give ENFJ's the benefit of the doubt. they're genuinely good people.
 

Domino

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Animenagai, I'm liking your ENFJ already! :D
 

animenagai

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Animenagai, I'm liking your ENFJ already! :D

lol no kidding. he is a bit of a MR. perfect. it's so cliche :D. "o he's perfect, his only weakness is the fear of getting hurt". what are you, superman?:steam:
 

Domino

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ahahhaha, I need to take some pointers from Superman then! :D
 

heart

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Re: Protean's post. Very good points to bring up.

I think introverts can be confused by extroverts and think they've made it into the inner circle when they haven't. This is simply because introverts don't have as much energy to invest in half way friendships. If they are spending a lot of time and attention on you, it's usually a pretty solid invite inwards but for extroverts they have more energy to spend and may take pleasure in your company but not necessarily want you inside yet or ever. So introverts need to keep this in mind. I've been misled and confused by this in the past but sort of think I am coming to understand it more now.

Am I off base here?
 

animenagai

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ahahhaha, I need to take some pointers from Superman then! :D

argh i'm not sure that's a good thing. superman's really private. funny thing is, no one would mention that about him unless they try to get in their head often/want closure. i've known the guy since primary school. i'm now 20. i still don't have the fuzziest idea how he thinks. the closest i get is with the MBTI analysis on ENFJ's, and it's not like he was willing to take the test :nice:
 

animenagai

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Re: Protean's post. Very good points to bring up.

I think introverts can be confused by extroverts and think they've made it into the inner circle when they haven't. This is simply because introverts don't have as much energy to invest in half way friendships. If they are spending a lot of time and attention on you, it's usually a pretty solid invite inwards but for extroverts they have more energy to spend and may take pleasure in your company but not necessarily want you inside yet or ever. So introverts need to keep this in mind. I've been misled and confused by this in the past but sort of think I am coming to understand it more now.

Am I off base here?

no you're absolutely right. many I's get mistaken for E's. my dad is an INTP, but he's the most expressive INTP you'll meet. there may be parts of your character that deviate from the norm score of your type, and pretty much everyone has a few of them. same kind of thing with my sister. we're so close and she's so nuts around me i tend to think of her as an E. in big get-togethers though, she's pretty quiet. the moral of the story is that the I and the E functions just tell you where one gets their energy from. it's a bit different from the typical model of an introvert or extrovert.

edit: sorry for the double post, but bite me :D
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Honestly, this post comes across as very selfish. Me me me, why can't she give me what I want, what I need, make ME feel special. What about her? Think about where she's coming from: she's exhausted from spreading herself too thin. She seems to have taken all these people under her wing, so much that she's totally neglected herself, because now she can't connect to anyone, including herself. There's got to be some strange shit lurking behind that, don't you think? Most people don't give themselves out like that without saving some things privately for themselves. She's given herself out like some kind of celebrity because she needs something. I can speculate, but I don't know. Point is, you're not the only one with problems -- open your eyes wider.

I think you should consider HER and leave your own needs aside. What is it she's looking for? Why can't she make a connection with YOU? What's preventing her? Is she afraid of imposing on anyone? Being intimate? Showing her own emptiness, perhaps? I say you try and have a conversation with her and make yourself available for HER to talk and complain. That's it. If she doesn't take your offer (and for god's sake, don't force her to open up) then just hang out or go back another time with the same agenda. Try it for 2 months and see if your relationship matures.
 

ladypinkington

Rubber Nipple Salesperson
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Think about where she's coming from: she's exhausted from spreading herself too thin. She seems to have taken all these people under her wing, so much that she's totally neglected herself, because now she can't connect to anyone, including herself. There's got to be some strange shit lurking behind that, don't you think? Most people don't give themselves out like that without saving some things privately for themselves. She's given herself out like some kind of celebrity because she needs something. I can speculate, but I don't know. Point is, you're not the only one with problems -- open your eyes wider.

I realize that actually. I realize a lot of it is that she is very self unaware.
I know for some reason she avoids reflecting- because she is afraid of the thoughts that she'd run into- maybe she is afraid of spending time with herself and getting to know herself. I realize that she has bad boundaries but good intentions.

I wouldn't take offense if this was just a friendship- but it is supposed to be a familyship. My husband and I were supposed to be adopted and were told that we were different then other people. Imagine your spouse treating other women/men the same as you making them the same priority as you- you would naturally feel confused as to what your place is. I think the real problem is that this comittment was made without really knowing each other- there is this connection and love of each other without any real history and emotional initmacy and yet there is all of this obligation. She has all these people call her mother- and she takes on the duties of a mother to them but says in the mean time that she doesn't really see them as her children. I can't help but feel confused. I can't help but question the meaningfulness of everthing.

It does bother me if someone makes promises to me and doesn't keep them.
When they paint a picture for you and it keeps changes scenery. It is hard to not start distrusting and kill looking forward to anything. It is hard for me to ask for anything when I know so many other people need from her and that she doesn't give enough to herself.

I don't ask from her- I know that a person can't give what they don't have- it is frustrating when someone wants you to ask from them and don't realize the latter. That is what hurts and makes me angry because she made us believe that she had the things to give to us and made a promise. I am angry because she expects from me the things I cannot give as well. I cannot feel secure in a relationship that has no clear definitions. She expects me to ask from her when she can't even answer. I feel angry because I don't know what to ask for and how to need.

My husband and I still feel like strangers to her and she with us and we need to get to know each other. Add on the fact that she is leaving soon for five years and it makes it even weirder and more complicated. That was a ball dropped on us recently. It is like getting married to a person and them leaving a few months afterwards for years and years. We were already feeling more disconnected, now with this we don't know how to feel.

She is not a bad person- and I do care for her very much- I just feel confused and hurt and mad at myself as well. There is so much to this that would take so long to even begin to explain. I know she must feel confused too and lost and hurt as well.

I am at a point where I just need to vent. I know feelings aren't necessarily the reality of a situation- that is what makes it all the more confusing. I don't know what feelings are right, what to feel.
 

IEE623

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i understand your problem. i have a close ENFJ friend and I know she usually makes people think that they are special to her. with Fe, all the compliments and good regards just come naturally from her. sometimes she doesn't even realize it.
we all have the desire to be complimented and desire for the feeling of closeness in this society that is full of individual independence. unfortunately, the proportion of Fe (as dominant) in the population is not that large (of course not more than 1/8). so every time we encounter an Fe, with the way he/she treats us we'd like to think, and therefore think, that we are special.

i used to have that feeling of confused before getting close to my current ENFJ friend right now. it was hurt to find out in the opposite direction.
my suggestion is that you just have to think that you are really special to her and act accordingly (even though sadly you've found out you're not). eventually she'll go on the track you've been wanting her to (because of her Fe)
 

proteanmix

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ladypinkington, now that you've explained the situation even more I'm a little confused as to what the problem is.

Is the problem is she's being too nice to you, making you feel too welcome and cared for but she does it for everyone so now you're not feeling special anymore? Just the way you described her I'm going to guess that she's an older woman, maybe has a family of her own, maybe has connections that predate her relationship with you, maybe has already established which connections are deeper and the ones that are superficial. It sounds like this woman is a mother figure to many people and actually done what Fe dominants have problems doing: set up boundaries and prioritized her relationships with people instead of trying to be everything to all. Why do you say she's unaware of herself? She's made connections with many and instead of accepting the connection as what it is (extended out of love and a genuine desire to help) it's about it not being unique enough?

In the relationship between parents and children, how unfair would it be for parents to show more attention to one child at the cost of another? It sounds like this is what you want this woman to do, show more attention to you at the expense of the other relationships she's nurtured. It sounds like you want her to be exclusively yours and yours alone. Is that really fair? She sounds like she's trying to handle the situation with some grace and diplomacy, but the more tactful she becomes the more it's viewed as insincere. No matter what she does she'll dig herself deeper into the hole.

Am I off base here?
What kind of promises is she making to you that are being broken?
 

ladypinkington

Rubber Nipple Salesperson
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1,126
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INFJ
I cannot get close to someone with tons of people around
does anyone know what intimacy is anymore?

be a mother to these people at a different time when you are a mother to us
these people know you better- they feel more of a right to you
it's too competitive
they're always trying to show me they are the alpha dogs
but what is weird is that you say that they aren't even your pets
and that I am
they don't know that
they don't know what their real place is
How do I act- I try taking my place and I end up getting hated

I am confused
we have this committment but we don't know you that well we don't have a history and want to build a history
a history with you and not these other million people
What I bought is not what was sold to me

get-togethers constantly cancelled
we're going to do this
we're going to do that
never happens never happens
too busy too busy
you have to be in proximity to be remembered
if you have bad boundaries you are rewarded
i don't want to have bad boundaries

I get my hopes up
i get my heart set on things

I mean more but am not shown more
But more is expected from me
why then are you surprised that I am confused

good people bad communication
things not defined
places, meanings, expectations

everyone is lost
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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I feel intimacy is more a state of spiritual existence between two people and less a physical state? Like ENTP I cited before, he's extremely busy but I feel (and know) that we're very close. See what I mean?

You do sound very hurt though. Make it clear you wish to speak to her about this uninterrupted.
 
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