Thor
New member
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2015
- Messages
- 8
- MBTI Type
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 351
- Instinctual Variant
- sx
Hey! My name's Erik and this is my first post here! 
I've been working a few years on a project that has organized neuroscience research on various mental networks and cognitive functions, and we're in the process of taking forward personality types based on these networks. I thought I'd share information on two networks that we believe are used by NFs, but we also want to provide a contrast with Keirsey to show you that there appears to be alot of meaningless jargon in the NF descriptions and questionnaires. I hope these descriptors can help make it easier for anyone who is struggling to know if they are for example NFs, NTs or SFs - without getting confused by stereotypes.
There's an iNtuition like process in the brain located in the Frontopolar network. There's a feeling-similar network called the Default-Mode network. These networks are not anti-correlated, so they're often used simultaneously. If these two networks are your preferred networks, you will not only experience these networks consciously, when you're being mindful, aware and in the moment, but also when you're feeling a rush of energy, excitement, and motivation to act. This means, at moments where you feel low on energy, or moments where you feel a lack of self-control and a lack of mindfulness, you will be engaging in other mental networks than the ones described below.
- Able to look at emotions and experiences from a meta-cognitive (existential) perspective
- Able to alter how emotions and values are experienced, for example through 'positive thinking' 'manipulation' or motivational speaking.
- Able to understand and engage in complex social rituals, as well as to define and explain complex, difficult experiences.
- Able to look at social issues in a holistic, open-minded sense, where no social norms or systems of belief are taken for granted.
- Focused on the similarities between different groups, cultures and personalities, as opposed to focusing on how people are different.
- Interested in generalizing and speculating on social issues and new possibilities.
- Interested in making discoveries, meeting new people, travelling, experiencing new cultures.
- Interested in coming up with new ways to express their identity, values and beliefs, for example experimenting with diets, etc etc.
- Able to strategize on how to deal with relationships, people, and lifestyle expressions.
- Struggle to separate their own emotions, values and experiences from other's emotions, values and experiences, relating to them as if they were 'their own'.
- Often identify as HSPs (especially the introverts!)
- Curious, inquisitive, often questioning people's motives, new experiences, new technology.
- Interested in exploring social concepts, discussing possibilities, dreams, and inventing stories.
Sources to these general descriptions can be found on our webpage.
According to Keirsey:
I have found that Idealists are not necessarily kind, authentic, or nurturing, but that unhealthy NFs can use emotional manipulation to distort and manipulate others. I believe NFs come with many unique existential views. Idealists can suffer from nihilism because of their abstract, intuitive mental network - their intuition can make them feel nothing will make a difference, that everything will be all the same in the end, even if their organic, feeling side drives them to engage others. All types can be enthusiastic, not just NFs, and enthusiasm (high prefrontal dopamine) is more an indication of when you are using your primary dominant networks (be they frontopolar, default-mode, or task-positive)
NFs can be giving because they get emotional rewards from involving themselves in other's emotional lives, making other's experiences their own. But they can also be negatively invested in other's, wanting to hurt or to push another person to a certain decision through negative manipulation. They enjoy self-transcendence, developing and growing a sense of identity, which makes them involved in human potentials. There are plenty of inspiring idealist leaders, and nurturing parents, but there are also several absent parents. Keirsey is sometimes too positive in his view of the personality types, describing them in traits any mature, healthy human being has, even though these traits are not exclusive to idealists. But the MBTI does intuitively seem to hint at real mental processes, the problem is that neuroscience wasn't invented when Jung, Isabella Briggs and Keirsey took turns developing the theories of the MBTI, causing the three to have to make casual guesses based on personal subjective experiences, rather than objective, evidence based types. NJT's goal is to help finish their fascinating work.
I've been working a few years on a project that has organized neuroscience research on various mental networks and cognitive functions, and we're in the process of taking forward personality types based on these networks. I thought I'd share information on two networks that we believe are used by NFs, but we also want to provide a contrast with Keirsey to show you that there appears to be alot of meaningless jargon in the NF descriptions and questionnaires. I hope these descriptors can help make it easier for anyone who is struggling to know if they are for example NFs, NTs or SFs - without getting confused by stereotypes.
There's an iNtuition like process in the brain located in the Frontopolar network. There's a feeling-similar network called the Default-Mode network. These networks are not anti-correlated, so they're often used simultaneously. If these two networks are your preferred networks, you will not only experience these networks consciously, when you're being mindful, aware and in the moment, but also when you're feeling a rush of energy, excitement, and motivation to act. This means, at moments where you feel low on energy, or moments where you feel a lack of self-control and a lack of mindfulness, you will be engaging in other mental networks than the ones described below.
- Able to look at emotions and experiences from a meta-cognitive (existential) perspective
- Able to alter how emotions and values are experienced, for example through 'positive thinking' 'manipulation' or motivational speaking.
- Able to understand and engage in complex social rituals, as well as to define and explain complex, difficult experiences.
- Able to look at social issues in a holistic, open-minded sense, where no social norms or systems of belief are taken for granted.
- Focused on the similarities between different groups, cultures and personalities, as opposed to focusing on how people are different.
- Interested in generalizing and speculating on social issues and new possibilities.
- Interested in making discoveries, meeting new people, travelling, experiencing new cultures.
- Interested in coming up with new ways to express their identity, values and beliefs, for example experimenting with diets, etc etc.
- Able to strategize on how to deal with relationships, people, and lifestyle expressions.
- Struggle to separate their own emotions, values and experiences from other's emotions, values and experiences, relating to them as if they were 'their own'.
- Often identify as HSPs (especially the introverts!)
- Curious, inquisitive, often questioning people's motives, new experiences, new technology.
- Interested in exploring social concepts, discussing possibilities, dreams, and inventing stories.
Sources to these general descriptions can be found on our webpage.
According to Keirsey:
"All Idealists share the following core characteristics:
Idealists are enthusiastic, they trust their intuition, yearn for romance, seek their true self, prize meaningful relationships, and dream of attaining wisdom.
Idealists pride themselves on being loving, kindhearted, and authentic.
Idealists tend to be giving, trusting, spiritual, and they are focused on personal journeys and human potentials.
Idealists make intense mates, nurturing parents, and inspirational leaders."
Idealists are enthusiastic, they trust their intuition, yearn for romance, seek their true self, prize meaningful relationships, and dream of attaining wisdom.
Idealists pride themselves on being loving, kindhearted, and authentic.
Idealists tend to be giving, trusting, spiritual, and they are focused on personal journeys and human potentials.
Idealists make intense mates, nurturing parents, and inspirational leaders."
I have found that Idealists are not necessarily kind, authentic, or nurturing, but that unhealthy NFs can use emotional manipulation to distort and manipulate others. I believe NFs come with many unique existential views. Idealists can suffer from nihilism because of their abstract, intuitive mental network - their intuition can make them feel nothing will make a difference, that everything will be all the same in the end, even if their organic, feeling side drives them to engage others. All types can be enthusiastic, not just NFs, and enthusiasm (high prefrontal dopamine) is more an indication of when you are using your primary dominant networks (be they frontopolar, default-mode, or task-positive)
NFs can be giving because they get emotional rewards from involving themselves in other's emotional lives, making other's experiences their own. But they can also be negatively invested in other's, wanting to hurt or to push another person to a certain decision through negative manipulation. They enjoy self-transcendence, developing and growing a sense of identity, which makes them involved in human potentials. There are plenty of inspiring idealist leaders, and nurturing parents, but there are also several absent parents. Keirsey is sometimes too positive in his view of the personality types, describing them in traits any mature, healthy human being has, even though these traits are not exclusive to idealists. But the MBTI does intuitively seem to hint at real mental processes, the problem is that neuroscience wasn't invented when Jung, Isabella Briggs and Keirsey took turns developing the theories of the MBTI, causing the three to have to make casual guesses based on personal subjective experiences, rather than objective, evidence based types. NJT's goal is to help finish their fascinating work.
